1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by RFDACM02 View Post
    It actually looks like the first decently planned bucket Peirce has mounted. It has angled corner with angle faced entry doors where most of their previous buckets were rectangular and had a flat face. This one has a three sided lip edge.
    The bucket design was carried over from when Pierce acquired the NovaQuintech line. I don't know that it's bad, it just seemed cramped when everything I've operated before were 3- and 4-man buckets (Pierce, E-One, Bronto). I'll be interested to see what the end-user feedback is....
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    SSSshhh,it's the Metz sneaking in.Next year it will be REMOVABLE!,hehe T.C.

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    Content deleted by author.
    Last edited by Firefighter807; 07-08-2009 at 10:53 PM.

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    I thought aluminum sticks have a higher safety margin than steel. (well atleast they are designed to higher safety margins, making them "stronger")

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    Quote Originally Posted by Firefighter807 View Post
    Who said "aluminum kills"?

    I still think steel is stronger than aluminum for a fire ladder. Although we had a few E-One ladders when our dealer sold E-Ones. Back then I wasn't on the committee.

    But I do not remember ever hearing anyone saying "aluminum kills".

    Who said it? When?
    The reason for the quotes was show it was a paraphrase. While I never heard those words used, I have heard salesmen talk about melting temps, and failures at fire due to high heat and imply this could be hazardous to firefighters lives. Most Peirce people, sans the most recent one I've dealt with, were over the top in their marketing. I'm hoping that the salesman I know now is representative of a "new" line of thinking that doesn't paint them into a corner.

    While I'm not a big E-One fan I'd venture to say that their all aluminum aerials have a much better record of non-failure than any steel ladder builder with the same volume of aerials on the market. Peirce is smart to get on board if it opens the market to them, it's just too bad they made such *****es of themselves bashing E-One for so many years.

    Peirce needs to get over themselves. Show my functional reasons why I should buy a product, not big tires, a look and an oval that makes me part of an exclusive club of a-holes. Will the apparatus get the job done better or more reliably than others while remaining financially responsible? If they can answer yes, than please bid.
    Last edited by RFDACM02; 04-29-2009 at 09:16 AM.

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    807: I can remember talking to various sales reps at a major fire chiefs show in 1990-ish and listening to the P rep laughing and commenting that any moron that paid for an aluminum ladder was a fool trying to get his people killed. This was not just a lowly sales rep it was a factory sales manager who was trying to show the local reps how to increase their P sales.

    And yes they were snorting the famous P flavored koolaid powder & running in circles & facing towards wisconson to do their little chant.

    It still amazes me that they "invented" all of the modern advances in firefighting vehicles.

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    I'm guessing there aren't too many ovals on the island? hehe T.C.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rescue101 View Post
    I'm guessing there aren't too many ovals on the island? hehe T.C.
    I've got an oval in my bathroom. You lift the seat to PEE !!! :-}

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    Don't tell Buff,he'll want one.The seat cover that is,hehe T.C.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nameless View Post
    I thought aluminum sticks have a higher safety margin than steel. (well atleast they are designed to higher safety margins, making them "stronger")
    I believe the KME rep stated that their line of aerials (all steel) were engineered to the highest safety margins out there, and are the only manufacturer that performs a "Proof Load Test" on every aerial sold.
    http://fire.kovatch.com/Products/Aer...0/Default.aspx


    Quote Originally Posted by islandfire03 View Post
    I've got an oval in my bathroom. You lift the seat to PEE !!! :-}
    My guess from the sound of things on here at times, is that many of the posters here may actually prefer to leave the seat DOWN!!

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    Default Oh my achin' *****

    Good one Florian!
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    My Pierce rep even back in 1999 when we speced our Platform never once bad- mouthed aluminum. He said it was just a matter of personal preference. That was back before Pierce came out with even their straight stick made of aluminum. We are the proud owners of a 100' Platform bought in 1999 and and aluminum straight stick bought last year. I guess we have been fortunate that our Pierce rep. is a straight shooter.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RFDACM02 View Post
    While I'm not a big E-One fan I'd venture to say that their all aluminum aerials have a much better record of non-failure than any steel ladder builder with the same volume of aerials on the market.
    In doing research for the replacement of our truck, we found that E-One and Sutphen (both aluminum ladder mfgs) have never had a failure that resulted due to design and or construction.
    Another thing we found out after talking to some 3rd party engineers was that altho Aluminum melts at a lower temprature than steel, it also disapates heat alot faster than steel to a point where haveing one of each ladder exsposed to the same fire at the same time the steel would reach it's melting point before Aluminum.
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    Best plan is keep the ladder out of the orange stuff,Then it's a non issue. Tony,you gonna be in Harrisburg? T.C.

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    Default Never seen a steel ladder melt

    Quote Originally Posted by RoofTopTrucky View Post
    In doing research for the replacement of our truck, we found that E-One and Sutphen (both aluminum ladder mfgs) have never had a failure that resulted due to design and or construction.
    Another thing we found out after talking to some 3rd party engineers was that altho Aluminum melts at a lower temprature than steel, it also disapates heat alot faster than steel to a point where haveing one of each ladder exsposed to the same fire at the same time the steel would reach it's melting point before Aluminum.
    Years ago, mid 80's, Boston Fire melted about 4 feet off the tip of one of their E-One ladders. Had to change their SOP's after that as to venting windows with the stick. I never saw or heard of them melting one of their steel American LaFrance, Maxim or Seagrave sticks. I'd like to see the documentation showing that steel will reach it's melting point quicker than aluminum.

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    [QUOTE=Rescue101;1058653 Tony,you gonna be in Harrisburg? T.C.[/QUOTE]
    He's been keeping a remarkably low profile lately. Short leash?

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    =Rescue101;1058653 Tony,you gonna be in Harrisburg? T.C.
    He's been keeping a remarkably low profile lately. Short leash?

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    Quote Originally Posted by tomwnh View Post
    Years ago, mid 80's, Boston Fire melted about 4 feet off the tip of one of their E-One ladders.
    I bet the story you are repeating changed over 20 some years. Boston firefighters had to abandon a rig that was set up for ladder pipe operations, at a haz mat fire I believe, the fly section was damaged but didnt melt. I attached a photo of the fire.

    Steel guys like steel and aluminum guys like aluminum. Whatever the choice, everyone carries aluminum ground ladders though. Well, except maybe some depts on the west coast who use wooden ladders. But they wear helmets that look like flower pots too!
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    Sam,I think they got his "antibark"collar turned up,I'm not so sure on the leash,he busts those.Kinda cute in his spiked collar though,hehe T.C.

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    I think most people are missing the point. Pierce could give a damn about what you think of their apparatus. They always sell whatever they can make. That is why the aluminum ladder and the aluminum tower is now in their catalog. It is called market share. If they think they can move into the E-One and Sutphen market by engineering a new product, they will do it. You can love them or hate them but they will always turn a profit and keep the Oshkosh stockholders happy.

    I think most of the Pierce haters are from departments that can't afford them, and that is fine. Use what you like, use what you can repair, use what you have good service with.

    We use Pierce because the factory is only 100 miles away and I have 3 service centers within 40 miles. One is open 24 hours a day. I also have a mobile service truck that takes care of 95% of our problems in our station without taking the vehicle out of service for more than an hour. 99% of our problems are not with Pierce engineered parts but with aftermarket vendors such as generators, lights, etc.

    I was told by them that they still believe the steel ladders and towers are much stronger and carry loads better than the aluminum product. They had to weld in a lot of beefy aluminum to get the same load ratings. But you have your choice and they will give you all the data required to make your own decision.

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    I agree with your assessment.That's why the INNOVATOR of the Pierce steel platform is building ours.That would be Smeal for the uninformed. Can't get any interest from P on our last two projects.They don't have a nearby servicecenter anyway. If you can't draw any interest on a Million dollar project what do you have to do to get it? I don't think their product is enough better that I'm going to lose a wink of sleep over it. I'm reasonably certain WE COULD have afforded a Pierce, but I'm quite sure the Smeal will do the job we built it to do. T.C.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rescue101 View Post
    I agree with your assessment.That's why the INNOVATOR of the Pierce steel platform is building ours.That would be Smeal for the uninformed. Can't get any interest from P on our last two projects.They don't have a nearby servicecenter anyway. If you can't draw any interest on a Million dollar project what do you have to do to get it? I don't think their product is enough better that I'm going to lose a wink of sleep over it. I'm reasonably certain WE COULD have afforded a Pierce, but I'm quite sure the Smeal will do the job we built it to do. T.C.
    Isn't the Smeal dealer/service in CT. which is further than the P dealer/service center.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zfdtruckman View Post
    I think most of the Pierce haters are from departments that can't afford them, and that is fine. Use what you like, use what you can repair, use what you have good service with.
    Like we and so many others keep saying, Pierce builds a truly decent truck. And Pierce was the LOW bidder on ours. But they bid on what they wanted to sell us, not what we asked to have built. Another company, also a quality builder, was second lowest, but same story. So we went with the lowest (and most) RESPONSIVE bidder, TOYNE.
    Last edited by chiefengineer11; 05-02-2009 at 10:31 PM.

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    Reliance you would be correct.But they come to us. Before we purchased we talked to a bunch of Smeal owners in state. NOT ONE had any service issues with this dealer. T.C.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rescue101 View Post
    Reliance you would be correct.But they come to us. Before we purchased we talked to a bunch of Smeal owners in state. NOT ONE had any service issues with this dealer. T.C.
    Thank You. How far from Bar Harbour or Portland are you.

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