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    Default Urgent Help Needed!

    I could use some advice from those who are involved in selecting and hiring new recruits.

    I was just terminated from my position as a fire recruit with my “dream department”. This occurred during my probationary period and after I left my previous job as a career FF with another local department. Without going into too much detail, the reason provided was not performance based and did not involve illegal or immoral actions. I can assure you their decision was without merit and their reasoning could not be further from the truth. However, while I would enjoy the chance to vent my frustrations, I have decided instead to focus on preparing myself for my next opportunity. This is where I could use your professional advice.

    I have just been notified that I have been selected to continue to the background investigation phase of a hiring process for a large city. The eligibility list was created prior to my appointment at either department. It has been requested that I provide updated employment information. I intend to be 100% truthful, but I am not sure when and how much information to provide.

    Obviously, I am unsure how to address the termination. Do I just list termination and wait to explain it when questioned by the BI? Or, should I provide an explanation right away? If I provide an explanation, do I write it as l did in this post or do I provide each and every detail? Is there anything in particular I should or should not do at this point?

    Thanks for your help!

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    Were you "asked to resign", or were you actually terminated? A resignation looks better than being fired. People fail skills/academic tests in the academy and are then asked to resign as a result. It's a fairly common occurence, and shouldn't be much of a black mark on your Hx. If your dismissal was due to disciplinary issues, I don't know of an eloquent way to present that on an employment Hx.

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    Also, don't try to overexplain the situation, or make excuses. This makes you appear defensive. It implies deceit. Answer honestly when directly questioned, but don't go off on tangents.

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    Quote Originally Posted by edpmedic View Post
    Were you "asked to resign", or were you actually terminated?
    I was actually terminated. The city provided an option of forced resignation or termination and due to the unusual circumstances of my situation, my attorney advised against accepting the resignation. Basically, among other things, the city failed to follow the language of the contract and resigning would have eliminated my right to appeal and my right to union representation during that appeal.

    Quote Originally Posted by edpmedic View Post
    If your dismissal was due to disciplinary issues, I don't know of an eloquent way to present that on an employment Hx.
    I was terminated because I failed to provide my previous employer two weeks notice of my resignation from their organization. This was because my family and I had a number of concerns regarding the potential pay cut and potential of layoffs due to a terrible economic outlook in my area. The city claimed that this showed "lack of dedication" to the organization as I would not have been able to provide them with two weeks notice had I decided not to accept their offer of employment.

    Other than that, I was highly ranked in the class as far as written exams, never had difficulty with any practical stations, was never late and never missed class, and I never had anything but positive interactions with my instructors and classmates.

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    What have to been doing employment wise since then?

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    Quote Originally Posted by JR0891 View Post
    I could use some advice from those who are involved in selecting and hiring new recruits.

    I was just terminated from my position as a fire recruit with my “dream department”. This occurred during my probationary period and after I left my previous job as a career FF with another local department. Without going into too much detail, the reason provided was not performance based and did not involve illegal or immoral actions. I can assure you their decision was without merit and their reasoning could not be further from the truth. However, while I would enjoy the chance to vent my frustrations, I have decided instead to focus on preparing myself for my next opportunity. This is where I could use your professional advice.

    I have just been notified that I have been selected to continue to the background investigation phase of a hiring process for a large city. The eligibility list was created prior to my appointment at either department. It has been requested that I provide updated employment information. I intend to be 100% truthful, but I am not sure when and how much information to provide.

    Obviously, I am unsure how to address the termination. Do I just list termination and wait to explain it when questioned by the BI? Or, should I provide an explanation right away? If I provide an explanation, do I write it as l did in this post or do I provide each and every detail? Is there anything in particular I should or should not do at this point?

    Thanks for your help!


    OK,

    You were terminated, correct?

    During the probationary period most FD's can terminate for the good of the dept. If you fail a test or didn't know your tools and appliances and also could not preform any task, this is grounds for dismissal and you have NO RECOURSE!

    If you go some where else, and you don't put on the application why you were terminated, you are setting your self up to be dropped from that dept. When they do the background and check with the pervious dept, they will find the truth and you will be history again.

    I am not sure why you were terminated but I bet the department had just reason for doing it. You may think not, but they sure did!!!
    Stay Safe and Well Out There....

    Always remembering 9-11-2001 and 343+ Brothers

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    "I can assure you their decision was without merit and their reasoning could not be further from the truth."

    That is your word versus the word of the people that were continuously observing you. Departments (usually) don't just fire people.

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    If its a small department like beverly hills, they could fire you for dumb stuff

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    One of the most difficult hurdles to get over is being fired by another department. It's easier if you're a medic.

    No matter if you resigned you were still fired. You have to tell your BI, take full responsibility for what happened even if you don’t know. Otherwise they won’t believe you. No other way will work. I’ve heard from candidates through the years who tried to defend them selves and it didn’t fly. Only when they stepped up and took full responsibility and convinced those in the hiring process that it would never happen again did they finally get another opportunity to prove themselves.

    BTW: Did you take a leave of absence from your original fire job so you might have been able to go back?

    "Captain Bob" www.eatstress.com

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    Quote Originally Posted by popofosho View Post
    What have to been doing employment wise since then?
    I was rehired as a medic at one of my prior employers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptBob View Post
    BTW: Did you take a leave of absence from your original fire job so you might have been able to go back? www.eatstress.com
    Unfortunately, this was not an option.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptBob View Post
    You have to tell your BI, take full responsibility for what happened even if you don’t know.www.eatstress.com
    Thanks for the info. I am certainly willing to do this. Do you suggest I do so now, before I am asked about the situation or should I simply be prepared to provide the info upon questioning? As of right now, I have provided 100% truthful answers to all questions asked, but have not volunteered any information beyond what was specifically requested.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JR0891 View Post
    ...I was terminated because I failed to provide my previous employer two weeks notice of my resignation from their organization....
    Your "dream department" fired you because you didn't give your previous department two-weeks notice??? And they claim it shows you may not have the dedication to their's?

    Help me out here; this seems odd to me. Is this common?

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    ........
    Last edited by ffbam24; 05-01-2009 at 12:27 PM. Reason: somehow posted twice

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    Quote Originally Posted by ffbam24 View Post
    Your "dream department" fired you because you didn't give your previous department two-weeks notice??? And they claim it shows you may not have the dedication to their's?

    Help me out here; this seems odd to me. Is this common?
    At this point I actually wish I had a performance or behavior problem because at least I would understand why this happened. This, I simply can't comprehend.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ffbam24 View Post
    Your "dream department" fired you because you didn't give your previous department two-weeks notice??? And they claim it shows you may not have the dedication to their's?

    Help me out here; this seems odd to me. Is this common?
    Exactly what I was thinking...
    I'm not exactly sure why you wouldn't give two weeks notice anyways. Even if they let you go, it's only two weeks. You could make ends meet for that long. You were going to your dream department. Sounds like maybe there's something else going on here.
    Evan
    Firefighter/NREMT-B

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    Quote Originally Posted by JR0891 View Post
    Thanks for the info. I am certainly willing to do this. Do you suggest I do so now, before I am asked about the situation or should I simply be prepared to provide the info upon questioning? As of right now, I have provided 100% truthful answers to all questions asked, but have not volunteered any information beyond what was specifically requested.
    If you have already completed and submitted your background packet you can update it in person with the BI. Practice your explanation with a hand held recorder until it comes out of your mouth the way you want it to sound.

    "Captain Bob" www.eatstress.com

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    Quote Originally Posted by evanbell View Post
    Exactly what I was thinking...
    I'm not exactly sure why you wouldn't give two weeks notice anyways.
    It wasn't by choice. You have to remember I had a secure, well-paying position as an officer with another jurisdiction. I know you are working hard to get full-time. I imagine you will gladly accept the first offer you get. But what if it's not exactly your dream job? Say you work there for 5-10 years, start a family, and then you get that offer you always hoped for. It is a very difficult decision that involves more than just yourself. Financially, it was best for me to stay at my old job and I was not in danger of being laid off, but I didn't love my job. However, my dream department was much larger and offered the chance to become more skilled, gain far more hands-on experience, and a much better chance for significant advancement, but with the risk that the poor economy could result in future layoffs. I had to ensure that my family would not suffer if I chose to follow my dream. When I made my decision, the two week window had closed.

    Quote Originally Posted by evanbell View Post
    Sounds like maybe there's something else going on here.
    If it didn't happen to me, I wouldn't believe it either.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptBob View Post
    If you have already completed and submitted your background packet you can update it in person with the BI. Practice your explanation with a hand held recorder until it comes out of your mouth the way you want it to sound.

    "Captain Bob" www.eatstress.com
    CaptBob,

    Thanks for the info. I just heard back from the department and was told that they do not allow candidates to contact the investigator directly. I guess they just verify the information I provided and label me as either "pass" or "fail". Would you recommend I provide my explanation in a letter? Should I send it to the FD Human Resources office, to the Chief, or elsewhere?

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    Not to beat this issue to death, and correct me if I'm wrong, but here's the way I understand this....

    You were working as an officer for your original department.

    You applied for your "dream" department.

    You were made a job offer by your "dream" department.

    You did not give your original employer 2 weeks notice.

    You started the new job with the "dream" department.

    You were terminated from the "dream" department because you did not give your previous employer 2 weeks notice before the start of the new job with the "dream" department.







    Is this about how your situation went?



    Most of the time I agree that terminations are USUALLY justified, but this one does seem veerrrrrry odd to say the least.

    Are you sure you did not tell the new employer you would give the old place 2 weeks notice? Because if you did, and then went back on your word, that may or may not be grounds for termination for lieing. IDK tho.

    That sucks though man.
    Quote Originally Posted by jedch47 View Post
    You like me are probably just a small player in this big EMS game. I am sure that it all makes sense to the people in charge. I am under the impression that when you start in upper level managment you lose the majority of your common sense.

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