Quick Response Vehicles (QRV's)

[DeputyChiefGonzo]

PS to Gonzo: sending a QRV or a sedan to an activated fire alarm is already done in some communities.

In some cases, it has had some rather nasty property losses and deadly results...

[BackStepNBackWards]

I dont know about you guys. But, not speaking about money, or anything else for that matter, I would HATE to be that Bamma in a Bandaid Pickup truck, returning from a stubbed toe and drive by a house, smoke showing, people in the streets waving you down cause, remember YOU ARE the Fire Department, and have NO Ladders, Minimum to NO hose or Water. Last time I checked, that ALS monitor never put a fire out.

Just saying, i like running fires, and id be one p'ed off Mofo. ; )

[MikeWard]

In some cases, it has had some rather nasty property losses and deadly results...

Yep!

Which is why I ALWAYS proceed to the scene in my Big Red Truck and contacted the caller when they wanted to cancel a response to an activated fire alarm.

Caught two structure fires that way.

[BoxAlarm187]

I dont know about you guys. But, not speaking about money, or anything else for that matter, I would HATE to be that Bamma in a Bandaid Pickup truck, returning from a stubbed toe and drive by a house, smoke showing, people in the streets waving you down cause, remember YOU ARE the Fire Department, and have NO Ladders, Minimum to NO hose or Water. Last time I checked, that ALS monitor never put a fire out.

Just saying, i like running fires, and id be one p'ed off Mofo. ; )

I've never beat a fire into submission with a 35' ladder off a dry ladder truck either.

[GTRider245]

I have yet to see anyone mention the Ladder Tender concept that Pheonix employs. If it is a non fire call, they run a medium duty rescue to the call and leave the ladder in the station. The LT has all the equipment of a ladder company besides the pump, tank and aerial ladder. Saves wear and tear on the ladders.

I agree that this concept may work in some places and not in others. My career department runs an engine to everything. With my volly department, we run a light rescue to medical calls.

I would say it depends directly on your tactics and the way you run things. It works for some, for others maybe not.

[tree68]

I have yet to see anyone mention the Ladder Tender concept that Phoenix employs.

IIRC, when Phoenix started running paramedics they didn't have enough to staff the ambulances (rescues in their jargon) or engines, so they put them on the trucks. Not feeling well? There will be an aerial at your front door shortly.

[joeff1974]

PS to Gonzo: sending a QRV or a sedan to an activated fire alarm is already done in some communities.

In some cases, it has had some rather nasty property losses and deadly results...

Are you referring to the number of firefighters killed responding to and from calls...? Because I promise you that is a much higher danger to Firefighters than using a QRV to initially investigate a fire alarm indication. That’s why the majority of Depts. have dropped fire alarm activations to a single engine response, code 2 (no lights or siren)...

Can someone please post some actual data, statistics, financial reports anything that is FACT or TRIAL BASED information to support their view (opinion) rather than continue to speculate "perceived" fears or notions. Otherwise this post will continue and continue and continue....

[GTRider245]

Are you referring to the number of firefighters killed responding to and from calls...? Because I promise you that is a much higher danger to Firefighters than using a QRV to initially investigate a fire alarm indication. That’s why the majority of Depts. have dropped fire alarm activations to a single engine response, code 2 (no lights or siren)...

Can someone please post some actual data, statistics, financial reports anything that is FACT or TRIAL BASED information to support their view (opinion) rather than continue to speculate "perceived" fears or notions. Otherwise this post will continue and continue and continue....

Pretty sure he was referring to civilian loss of life and property.

[Rescue101]

Nope,referring to MAJOR property losses that have occured from sending a Buggy or a Mini me to an incident that SHOULD have been 2 and 1 or HIGHER. Seen it and it WON'T happen here.The only thing a QRV would be useful for here is Brush or haul the airboat. Anything else gets a REAL Engine. GT this is for Joeff NOT you. T.C.

[Acklan]

Are you referring to the number of firefighters killed responding to and from calls...? Because I promise you that is a much higher danger to Firefighters than using a QRV to initially investigate a fire alarm indication. That’s why the majority of Depts. have dropped fire alarm activations to a single engine response, code 2 (no lights or siren)...

I would like to see published facts on those statistics. I know of no department in our state that has adopted this response. Where did you come up with "a majority of departments"?

Can someone please post some actual data, statistics, financial reports anything that is FACT or TRIAL BASED information to support their view (opinion) rather than continue to speculate "perceived" fears or notions. Otherwise this post will continue and continue and continue....

Perceived fears? Can you link any publish reports that indicate QRV are more efficient? You call it fear, but why change something that works for something that has not been proved to save money or lives? Where are your study or reports?

[LVFD301]

Are you referring to the number of firefighters killed responding to and from calls...? Because I promise you that is a much higher danger to Firefighters than using a QRV to initially investigate a fire alarm indication. That’s why the majority of Depts. have dropped fire alarm activations to a single engine response, code 2 (no lights or siren)...

.

Majority of departments? I toss the flag on this one, what is your source for such a statement?

[Catch22]

IIRC, when Phoenix started running paramedics they didn't have enough to staff the ambulances (rescues in their jargon) or engines, so they put them on the trucks. Not feeling well? There will be an aerial at your front door shortly.

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't Pheonix run a tiered EMS system? In their case the ambulance is a BLS unit and the medic will swap with one of the EMT's if it's an ALS call.

We're running aerials on medical (and every other type of call) right now. Part of the reason we're considering a quick response vehicle is to reduce the number of times that aerial (in particular the 100-footer) has to run on medical or other calls where we don't need 100' worth of ladder.

[joeff1974]

Perceived fears? Can you link any publish reports that indicate QRV are more efficient? You call it fear, but why change something that works for something that has not been proved to save money or lives? Where are your study or reports?

[/QUOTE]

No I can not find any link that indicates a QRV will save money.. That's why I asked---Can someone please post some actual data, statistics, financial reports anything that is FACT or TRIAL BASED information to support their view (opinion) rather than continue to speculate "perceived" fears or notions. Otherwise this post will continue and continue and continue.... You only assumed I was for the QRV concept when in fact I have an open mind and would just like to see some type of case study regarding the "notion" - The QRV will save money or the percieved fears of QRV causing dept to drop staff to 2 man, Depts will stop buying Fire Engines etc etc .. I do not want to see Crew integrity compromised by having 2 men on a QRV and 2 men on an Engine back at the station but like a lot of other Dept's mine is facing some serious budget concerns and Crew integrity may compromised by way of lay off's rather than mixed staffing!

[joeff1974]

Originally Posted by joeff1974
Are you referring to the number of firefighters killed responding to and from calls...? Because I promise you that is a much higher danger to Firefighters than using a QRV to initially investigate a fire alarm indication. That’s why the majority of Depts. have dropped fire alarm activations to a single engine response, code 2 (no lights or siren)...

I would like to see published facts on those statistics. I know of no department in our state that has adopted this response. Where did you come up with "a majority of departments"?

Majority of departments? I toss the flag on this one, what is your source for such a statement?

My point is that responding to and from calls has been responsible for more firefighter deaths than actual "fire alarm activations" (NFPA.org)- I could possibly be wrong that "majority of Depts" made adjustments. It is only my assumption that it is the "majority" my apology... So your Departments respond a full assignment- 3 engines 1 ladder 2 battalions all lights and sirens to an alarm indication? (or whatever your intitial response is to structure fire )You have not made any adjustment for "Alarm Activation only" - like first due code 3 all others code 2 or engine and ladder only or single engine investigative mode.. etc etc..?

[danomfd]

Kramer, would this be a QRV response or an Engine Co. response?

[Acklan]

Originally Posted by joeff1974
Are you referring to the number of firefighters killed responding to and from calls...? Because I promise you that is a much higher danger to Firefighters than using a QRV to initially investigate a fire alarm indication. That’s why the majority of Depts. have dropped fire alarm activations to a single engine response, code 2 (no lights or siren)...

Once again you stated that a "majority of departments", but you have yet to cite where you get your information from. I know of no department in the past 35 years that has adopted such a practice. I am not saying there are not departments that have, but I would like to know where you get your data from proving these statements.

My point is that responding to and from calls has been responsible for more firefighter deaths than actual "fire alarm activations" (NFPA.org)- I could possibly be wrong that "majority of Depts" made adjustments. It is only my assumption that it is the "majority" my apology... So your Departments respond a full assignment- 3 engines 1 ladder 2 battalions all lights and sirens to an alarm indication? (or whatever your intitial response is to structure fire )You have not made any adjustment for "Alarm Activation only" - like first due code 3 all others code 2 or engine and ladder only or single engine investigative mode.. etc etc..?

It depends on the alarm. Or a standard residential or business we dispatched 2 engines, 1 ladder, 1 district chief, 1 rescue, 1 service, and safety. On a high life hazard we dispatched, 4 engines, 2 ladder, 2 district chiefs, 2 rescues, 1 service, and safety. By state law when responding to an emergency we must run with audible and visual warning devices. Actually over the last ten years we start with the high life hazard response, for high rises, nursing homes, schools that are in session,...
In the last 10 years, on my shift, at this station I have made 9 working fire, first in, from fire alarm activations. 5 residential and 4 commercial business.

[TVFR9923]

To adress the issue of always sending an engine or truck co. to non-critical calls, the deptment I retired from recently started using "CARS" as QRV's. They respond to medicals, unknown if injury MVA's, and fire alarms. They have dedicated staffing so crew integrity is not an issue.

You can read more about it by following this link. The You Tube video explains the program too.

http://tvfr.com/news/index.aspx

[tree68]

In the last 10 years, on my shift, at this station I have made 9 working fire, first in, from fire alarm activations. 5 residential and 4 commercial business.

I've heard of fire departments reducing the response on known nuisance alarms. Usually the response was cut back from a full first alarm to a single engine or something along that line - never just a staff vehicle. Sorry - no source, just years of reading fire service publications.

That said - how many of those nine automatic alarms were "regulars?" Places that you could count on running to several times a week?

[MemphisE34a]

I have yet to see anyone mention the Ladder Tender concept that Pheonix employs.

That's because it is even more retarded than the concept being discussed. Phoenix is basically paying for a pumper to send on medical calls that they don't want to send the truck on. Why not just send the engine company, not the engine that the truck guys take on medicals? I guarnatee you they are not saving any money!!!

[MemphisE34a]

Kramer, would this be a QRV response or an Engine Co. response?

Oh......my pal Dano.

That was no response. It was picked the bike up and rode another 6 hours to Tulsa. I was just hurting to bad to make the remaining 5500+ miles after that.

Bastard.