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  1. #1
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    Default Filling Tankers / Tenders

    When using an engine at a fill site - either static source or hydrant - to reload tankers (oops! NIMS correctness) tenders, what system do you utilize? Do you stretch a length of LDH to a manifold or distributor valve, or do you run multiple lines from your pump discharges.

    Please be as specific as you can as too hardware used, hose size and length, etc.

    Thanks.

    ce2907


  2. #2
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    Default Simple

    We currently use a 25' lenth of LDH off the 3" discharge on the engine.

    We have plans to use a 5" Jumbo Gated Wye - we would only fill one tanker at a time but it would allow a 2nd tanker to setup to be filled while the first tanker is filling.

  3. #3
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    We use 5" ldh to a portable hydrant, then 2 1/2 " lines with storz couplings. The fill site engine supplies the ldh at 150 psi. Then its 2 2 1/2" lines to each tanker, filling only 1 tanker at a time. Its alot easier on fill site people doing it with the 2 1/2" than using 5" to hook.

  4. #4
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by westofd1 View Post
    We use 5" ldh to a portable hydrant, then 2 1/2 " lines with storz couplings. The fill site engine supplies the ldh at 150 psi. Then its 2 2 1/2" lines to each tanker, filling only 1 tanker at a time. Its alot easier on fill site people doing it with the 2 1/2" than using 5" to hook.
    Any tankers that have only 1x large diameter intake (as for LDH)? If so does FD leave a siamese on the intake? Or just fill thru 1x 2-1/2" (slow).

    Anyone using a clapperd intake valve on tanker fill rather than a ball/gate valve you have to operate when full?

  5. #5
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    Thumbs up toneiowa

    Im sorry Mr. know it all. I'm surprised to see u made a mistake on the 4x4 international question on the other thread. A man with your knowledge and all! have a nice day. If bull was gold, heck u have all sorts of money.

  6. #6
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    My town doesn't have hydrants, so we always draft for water. This also means lots of mutual aid tankers, and many of them have different setups. We usually end up with a number of hoses for different tanker setups.

    Our two tankers are a 1500gal with a single 2.5" intake and a 2800gal with a 4" storz that we attach a 2x 2.5" siamese to. Generally we will set up 2x 2.5" lengths from 2 discharges to the siamese which is disconnected at the storz and remains at the fill site. That tanker has a simple pipe that goes up and dumps into the top of the tank, so no valves are required when filling. We will also run 2 more 2.5" lines that can be used together or separate.

    Between the 2x2.5" and the 4" storz fed by 2x2.5" we can accomidate any tanker in the county that we come across.

    We are currently looking to replace one or both of these trucks with a newer pumper/tanker with a more modern setup.

  7. #7
    MembersZone Subscriber ffmedcbk1's Avatar
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    Default

    the engine on the source pumps out through a 5" to a 4 outlet (2.5) manifold. then 3" lines off of them two are 50' with cam locks and the other is 100' with cam locks. We fill one at a time and the other can connect/disconnect then.
    Originally Posted by madden01
    "and everyone is encouraged to use Plain, Spelled Out English. I thought this was covered in NIMS training."

  8. #8
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    Filling tankers / tenders:

    Minimum fill rate needs to be 1,000 gpm or more depending upon the vent capacity. Some of the area FC's use 5" directly into the tank, but most adapt 3" lines with 3" stortz couplings to minimize hook-up times. We solved the problem of different inlet set-ups by having the county Chief's association purchase 2 sets of stortz for every tanker in the county. A standard fill site provides at least two fill lines, with 4 the preferred set-up.
    The place to improve efficiency of a tanker shuttle is at the dump and fill sites to minimize the dead time. Race driving with heavy, high center of gravity vehicles is begging for an accident or roll-over. Smooth driving with well thought out set-ups and routes is the best course of action. If you can't draft enough water to fill at 1,000 to 1,500 gpm, then split the operation and send half of your task force to a second fill site. This past week end, we ran a shuttle for a live burn. The vacuum tanker was allowed to fill itself at around 600 gpm (3,500 gal in 6 minutes) while the other three were filled with a 1500 gpm engine.
    Selecting dual 2 1/2 or 3" lines makes it easier for the FF's at the fill site to disconnect, due to the weight of the 5" if feeding directly. If you have wait time between shuttles, consider adding a drop tank with hard sleeve into pony suction or rear intakes with valves. This will help increase your fill rate on high lift drafts where 1500 gpm rates can not be achieved. Under no circumstances should it take more than 2 minutes to fill most tankers. Drivers should not exit the cab of their vehicle to help keep fill times at a minimum. If faced with a tanker with only one fill connection, consider going through the pump (if so equipped) without putting it in gear. Just leave the tank fill open and close the inlet gate to the pump.
    Set traffic cones directly opposite the drivers window so that each tanker stops at precisely the correct position for hook-up. You may need to put colored tape or number the cones for each apparatus to minimize confusion over stopping points.
    Last edited by KuhShise; 05-20-2009 at 10:24 PM.

  9. #9
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    Default 4" check valve

    Quote Originally Posted by neiowa View Post
    Any tankers that have only 1x large diameter intake (as for LDH)? If so does FD leave a siamese on the intake? Or just fill thru 1x 2-1/2" (slow).

    Anyone using a clapperd intake valve on tanker fill rather than a ball/gate valve you have to operate when full?
    We have a neighboring department that has 4" check valves installed and feed them with 5" ldh. I haven't seen them in action yet but they swear by them.

  10. #10
    MembersZone Subscriber bendone's Avatar
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    Default

    All tankers in our county are set up with (2) 3" camlock fittings. We setup 4 lines from the pump but only fill one tanker at a time. Also with our new pumper we can set up (2) 6" suctions and get fill rates over 2000gpm from a 1500gpm pump.

  11. #11
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by westofd1 View Post
    Im sorry Mr. know it all. I'm surprised to see u made a mistake on the 4x4 international question on the other thread. A man with your knowledge and all! have a nice day. If bull was gold, heck u have all sorts of money.
    Why are you so hostile towards people on here?

  12. #12
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    Default

    Well check out other posts and replies by some others. U might understand why. No matter what some people think and type there are a few that slam everything u think or type, whether it be about the thread or just spelling, etc. stay safe

  13. #13
    Forum Member FIREMECH1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by westofd1 View Post
    Well check out other posts and replies by some others. U might understand why. No matter what some people think and type there are a few that slam everything u think or type, whether it be about the thread or just spelling, etc. stay safe
    That makes you part of the problem, and not part of the solution.

    FM1

    FYI... I used spelchek

  14. #14
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    Cool Tanker Fill Inlets

    Anyone using a clapperd intake valve on tanker fill rather than a ball/gate valve you have to operate when full?
    05-20-2009 07:11 PM

    neiowa,

    We have a 1500 gallon and 2500 gallon tanker. We have two 3" direct tank fills with 2.5" cam-lock quick connects. Years ago, we used the quarter turn ball valves on the tank fills. The down side of this was that at a draft site, the firefighters working the fill lines on the tanker shuttle would close the valve on the tanker before the supply line from the water point engine had closed the discharge. When they forgot to bleed the pressure off the line the line would come off the quick connect with suffiicient force to cause injuries. To eliminate this problem we installed clapper valves on the direct tank fill inlets. Any pressure in the fill line woild bleed off into the tank and the hose man would not have to remember to bleed the line. We have been using the clapper valves about 15 years and as we plan for our next tanker replacement in the future, the clapper valves will be on the specifications.

    It is much safer for the personel and eliminates a step for them to perform on the fill operation.

  15. #15
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by EVTRon View Post
    When they forgot to bleed the pressure off the line the line would come off the quick connect with suffiicient force to cause injuries. To eliminate this problem we installed clapper valves on the direct tank fill inlets. Any pressure in the fill line woild bleed off into the tank and the hose man would not have to remember to bleed the line. We have been using the clapper valves about 15 years and as we plan for our next tanker replacement in the future, the clapper valves will be on the specifications.

    It is much safer for the personel and eliminates a step for them to perform on the fill operation.

    Good point had not thought of that benefit. Was primarily looking for quicker turn times.

    Is there a particual brand name that makes clapper for NH thread? Don't recall seeing in Kochek/Akron/Elkhart catalogs. Application would be to replace a 4" gate valve.

  16. #16
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    Cool Filling Tankers

    Neiowa,

    When I go to the station later this evening, I will check and see what brand the clapper valves are. I did know, but forgot that tidbit of info a long time ago

  17. #17
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ce2907 View Post
    When using an engine at a fill site - either static source or hydrant - to reload tankers (oops! NIMS correctness) tenders, what system do you utilize? Do you stretch a length of LDH to a manifold or distributor valve, or do you run multiple lines from your pump discharges.

    Please be as specific as you can as too hardware used, hose size and length, etc.

    Thanks.

    ce2907
    We usually do not set up an engine at a hydrant for tender/tanker refilling. If we are filling multiple tankers we set up seeral hydrants or place a crew at one hydrant with our grass/brush truck to assist with filling tankers. In our area we have several fire departments that have all gotten together and have purchased the same equipment. We all use a hydrant valves and 5" LDH so only one tanker has to drop the equipment and all tankers can fill there. No more 4" and 5 " adapters or 2.5 hanging off the hydrant for other departments.

  18. #18
    Forum Member islandfire03's Avatar
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    We have zero hydrants so all our water supply operations are from dry hydrants or static sources. All enginges carry a rural hitch set-up which consists of 2 -50ft lengths of 4" LDH with storz couplings, a 4X4X4 gated wye and neoprene gloves.
    When set up the supply engine or tanker hooks to the 4" supply line and pumps to the wye near the roadside. Then the 4" LDH lines run from there to the empty tankers. We all have a 4"direct fill on the left rear of our tankers so commonality is there in fittings. All area departments are set up with this storz direct fill. We use a 1/4 turn valve with a drain bleeder to release pressure. When set up this way we can supply 2 trucks at the same time at near max flows. All our local tankers also have 3 -10" newton dumps so we can drop from either rear or both sides when at the dump tanks.
    The neoprene gloves are for the connection man so his hands don't get iced up and he doesn't soak his firefighting gloves hooking up supply lines.

  19. #19
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    Default

    We are a rural department and use dry hydrants. We built our grass rig to fill tankers and work as a grass rig. The pump was just a little bigger than needed and we added a primer from a class A pumper. 4" intake and two 3" x 50' LDH to fill tankers. Before any jumps my butt about sizing and flows, we had to give up some of this to have a unit for dual purpose and to allow our older members to set up our fill sites. When we looked at our manpower issues this made the most sense.

  20. #20
    MembersZone Subscriber AC1503's Avatar
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    http://www.firetruckvalves.com/

    We have a Firemen's Friend valve on out 3,000 gallon tanker. It has a 4 inch spring loaded checkvalve.

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