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    Awesome videos. Really makes you think. For those of us using 1 3/4" high rise packs, how many will swap to 2" after watching that?
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    but the salesman said the flush setting will clear all the debris.....
    Originally Posted by madden01
    "and everyone is encouraged to use Plain, Spelled Out English. I thought this was covered in NIMS training."

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    Of course, this is assuming that you are running 40 psi at the nozzle.

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    Awesome videos.

    Proof of what many of us have known for years.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Of course, this is assuming that you are running 40 psi at the nozzle.
    You have already stated you don't have any standpipes and you don't train in their operation...So how about you let the guys that actually use them and have a damn clue talk about them. Your lack of knowledge and lack actual experience in their use offer NOTHING to this topic other than a chance for you to look foolish and inconsequential once again.

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    My volly FD has used 2 inch hose exclusively for about a decade, maybe a little longer. We like it because we flow from 160 to 200 gpm with out low pressure combo tip and then can go to 300 gpm with the 1 1/4 inch slug tip. If I had my way the primary nozzle would be a 1 inch smoothbore, then the 1 1/4 inch slug, but that's a battle for another day.

    It works for us in our standpipes as our only buildings with standpipes are no taller than 2 stories. My personal opinion is if you are getting into high rises you need the reduced friction loss and high flow of 2 1/2 inch hose with a smoothbore tip. It is a simple matter of height, back pressure, friction loss in the piping and then the friction loss and required nozzle pressure, all of which are better suited to larger hoselines, 2 1/2 inch, and smoothbore nozzles, 40-50 psi nozzle pressure.

    I am now prepared to be completely flamed by the TFT users who fail to see that even in low pressure "EMERGENCY" mode an automatic combination nozzle is NOT the right choice for a standpipe.
    Last edited by FyredUp; 05-25-2009 at 03:59 PM.

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    At one point, I did train on them quite a bit. Then I moved to department where we have no systems.

    I wasn't really planning on getting into the discussion as I really have no use for them in my current department.

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    It's nice to see real world testing taking place to prove or disprove an issue.

    It beats sitting at a desk while running the numbers to come to a conclusion that may not work in real life, or arguing how my brand nozzle will beat your brand nozzle.

    It also shows how simple usually works better than complex.
    We do not rise to the occasion. We fall back to our level of training.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    At one point, I did train on them quite a bit. Then I moved to department where we have no systems.

    I wasn't really planning on getting into the discussion as I really have no use for them in my current department.
    I can only wonder why you felt the need to post at all. Are you such an egomaniac that even a topic that has absolutely no importance to you has to have your posts in it? You post on and on about how you are singled out for posting and you have freely stated a number of times that you have no need for training in standpipes since you don't have any, so why post? The fact that you posted the way you did shows a complete lack of any serious knowledge about standpipes in highrises.

    Thanks once again for adding absolutely NOTHING to yet another topic.

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    Awesome videos. Really makes you think. For those of us using 1 3/4" high rise packs, how many will swap to 2" after watching that?
    Just A change in hose size here isn't the answer.

    Departments really need to evaluate their hose and nozzle choice for high rise (and low-rise) occupancies.

    The video clearly demonstrates why a smooth bore nozzle is the only safe choice for a nozzle on a high rise pack.
    Last edited by Res343cue; 05-26-2009 at 06:25 PM.
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    Of course, this is assuming that you are running 40 psi at the nozzle.
    What does that have to do with debris clogging the nozzle??

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    I wasn't really planning on getting into the discussion as I really have no use for them in my current department.
    You were the FOURTH post, you absolute lying ******bag!

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    Awesome videos. Really makes you think. For those of us using 1 3/4" high rise packs, how many will swap to 2" after watching that?
    No doubt; give these guys a Milwaukee, because it just doesn't get any better than this.

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    I think the size of the hose is not the entire point here. The point that you really have two choices:

    1) Automatic fog nozzle with all kinds of features, functions, levers, knobs, lights, gauges, and an accompanying brass marching band. It is so awesome, it can completely hide the fact that you're rapidly losing water and about to get burned. And to prevent damage to all the bells and whistles, a screen to totally stop the flow of water.

    2) A smooth bore nozzle with a lever and a big round hole at the end. Open gate, water comes out. Water will keep coming out until you close the gate. Fire goes out.

    3) Big hose flows bigger water. If you think you might need bigger water, bring bigger hose. But remember, putting an automatic nozzle on a big hose is still just as bad as having it on a smaller hose.
    Even the burger-flippers at McDonald's probably have some McWackers.

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    I think the size of the hose is not the entire point here.
    True...my comment was really meant to address the entire premise presented in the videos. Poor choice of quote for me. I took them all and stitched them into a DVD to keep for further review.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Res343cue View Post
    A change in hose size here isn't the answer.

    Departments really need to evaluate their hose and nozzle choice for high rise (and low-rise) occupancies.

    The video clearly demonstrates why a smooth bore nozzle is the only safe choice.
    I will respectfully disagree,sort of.....
    What the video does show is that automatic nozzles should be left on the trashline.

    Don

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    Default high rise packs

    I have been battling this issue at both my Full time and Part time Departments. When I bring up the issue, refer to NIOSH reports, NFPA, or any other source of information, it's like slamming my head against a brick wall. I've tried going around the wall, under the wall, over the wall, but all I meet is another wall. It's like I'm taking crazy pills when I try to talk about this topic. An old timer once told me, "Firefighters need to realize and understand one thing, the guy who invented the automatic nozzle for a 2.5" line was a nozzle salesman. now do what you want with that little tid bit..."

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    interesting demo

    if you do have high rises or other standpiped occupancies in your district get out and talk to the building owner and see if you can flow water. You may be surprised how much pressure/flow you can get or how little you can get. Besides its good to have a baseline if a standpipe in training isn't giving you good flows, you know something is wrong. Instead of just assuming its a bad standpipe.

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    Great videos, so why do so many departments still use 1.75 line with fogs on their standpipe packs?
    These videos should be enough right there to change.

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    I don't understand the fog nozzle fetish either. The people who are in love with the thing will probably not have their mind changed by this either.
    Even the burger-flippers at McDonald's probably have some McWackers.

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    I understand it, I absolutely prefer fog nozzle if possible, but smooth bore obviously has a place.
    Wouldn't most if not all of that trash come out if you flush the standpipes before connecting the hose? Our SOP is to flush standpipes and hydrants, we don't want the brown water, nor any trash that comes our way. Having said that, I've never used wet standpipes in a building.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bum291 View Post
    Wouldn't most if not all of that trash come out if you flush the standpipes before connecting the hose?
    Nope. Only the stuff that is loose and comes out during the time you are flushing it. Anything else that isn't loose or further down the line......

    I used to like the fog nozzle because it was "neat" and could do all this cool stuff. But then some very wise instructors at our fire academy pointed out something..... WHY! And they were right. Gee, what do you know. There is nothing useful you can do with a fog nozzle that you can't do with a smooth bore. The smooth bore requires less than half the nozzle pressure and there is nothing to get messed up. Its a round hole that water comes out of.
    Even the burger-flippers at McDonald's probably have some McWackers.

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    I believe 13a says that standpipe systems are designed for use with 2.5 in hose and clearly states that fog nozzles should not be used off the standpipe

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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    I wasn't really planning on getting into the discussion as I really have no use for them in my current department.

    Then why did you?

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