Thread: Okla. Troopers

  1. #326
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI View Post
    Go away, son. You have no idea what you're posting or who you're posting it to.
    I'm posting to a hypocrite about him being a hypocrite. Funny, I figured you'd at least make a point before resorting to child like tactics.

    If you'd like to rebuke it I'd be willing to hear it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tajm611 View Post
    I'm posting to a hypocrite about him being a hypocrite. Funny, I figured you'd at least make a point before resorting to child like tactics.

    If you'd like to rebuke it I'd be willing to hear it.
    As I said, go away. I'm too busy dealing with the adults here to spend any of my valuable time on you.
    PROUD, HONORED AND HUMBLED RECIPIENT OF THE PURPLE HYDRANT AWARD - 10/2007.

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    Don't believe you're above being called out on acting like a child. It's embarrassing to think you are a firefighter. I pray I never have to serve under a grown man-child such as yourself.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tajm611 View Post
    Don't believe you're above being called out on acting like a child. It's embarrassing to think you are a firefighter. I pray I never have to serve under a grown man-child such as yourself.

    Me too. I am a horrible person. I have no credibility and I am a jerk.

    Now will you go away?
    PROUD, HONORED AND HUMBLED RECIPIENT OF THE PURPLE HYDRANT AWARD - 10/2007.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI View Post
    Me too. I am a horrible person. I have no credibility and I am a jerk.

    Now will you go away?
    see he admitted it. now we can all rest in peace.

    tajm611, don't waste your breath. George will never admit that a cop was wrong, except when it was painfully obvious to even the most simple minds that he was wrong (which explains why he can).

    don't worry about it, just move on
    If my basic HazMat training has taught me nothing else, it's that if you see a glowing green monkey running away from something, follow that monkey!

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    All internet bullies are real life cowards.

    Sad that he can't even defend why he contradicts himself.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DrParasite View Post
    see he admitted it. now we can all rest in peace.

    tajm611, don't waste your breath. George will never admit that a cop was wrong, except when it was painfully obvious to even the most simple minds that he was wrong (which explains why he can).

    don't worry about it, just move on
    Tell you what ACM, go through this thread from page one and count how many times I stated that the cops were wrong. Just this thread.

    Then come back and admit you were wrong.
    PROUD, HONORED AND HUMBLED RECIPIENT OF THE PURPLE HYDRANT AWARD - 10/2007.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tajm611 View Post
    All internet bullies are real life cowards.

    Sad that he can't even defend why he contradicts himself.
    Way to go, junior. 9 posts and you earned my Ignore List. That's a record.
    PROUD, HONORED AND HUMBLED RECIPIENT OF THE PURPLE HYDRANT AWARD - 10/2007.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI View Post
    Way to go, junior. 9 posts and you earned my Ignore List. That's a record.
    The truth hurts? Don't be a coward. Man up to the fact you act like a child and throw temper tantrums when some one disagrees you.

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    A lawsuit has been filed against the OHP Trooper involved in a scuffle with a paramedic.

    The paramedic's attorney, Richard O’Carroll, filed the lawsuit against Trooper Daniel Martin, for allegedly violating Maurice White's 4th Amendment rights.

    Cell phone and OHP dash cam video show Trooper Martin confronting White after Martin says the ambulance failed to yield back on May 24th in Okfuskee County.

    Trooper Martin is still on administrative leave tonight, and his case is in the hands of the Chief of the Oklahoma Highway Patrol.

    Stay tuned for the latest tonight on FOX23 News at 9, and updates on FOX23.com.

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    OKLAHOMA CITY (AP) -- An investigation into a scuffle in which a state trooper choked a paramedic is under review and the attorney for the paramedic says he's tired of the lack of action.

    OHP trooper Daniel Martin has been on paid leave since June 1 after a video of the May 24 incident with Creek Nation paramedic Maurice White Jr. surfaced.

    White's attorney, Richard O'Carroll says the OHP and Department of Public Safety are hoping to stall until people stop asking questions.

    OHP Capt. Chris West says the investigation has finished and is being reviewed by OHP Col. Van Guillotte and State Public Safety Department Commissioner Kevin Ward. West says the results of the investigation likely will be announced soon.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GhostRider73 View Post
    A lawsuit has been filed against the OHP Trooper involved in a scuffle with a paramedic.

    The paramedic's attorney, Richard O’Carroll, filed the lawsuit against Trooper Daniel Martin, for allegedly violating Maurice White's 4th Amendment rights.

    Cell phone and OHP dash cam video show Trooper Martin confronting White after Martin says the ambulance failed to yield back on May 24th in Okfuskee County.

    Trooper Martin is still on administrative leave tonight, and his case is in the hands of the Chief of the Oklahoma Highway Patrol.

    Stay tuned for the latest tonight on FOX23 News at 9, and updates on FOX23.com.
    Are you sure that they said 4th amendment? That is a protection against unlawful searches and seizures. As far as I could see, nothing was searched and nothing was seized.

    This case will never see a courtroom. For all of the reasons stated here, the medic was as much in the wrong as the cop was.

    Now, if the lady in the back of the bus wanted to sue...
    PROUD, HONORED AND HUMBLED RECIPIENT OF THE PURPLE HYDRANT AWARD - 10/2007.

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    Yep they said 4th. That was a direct copy and paste from the website.

    Matt
    Last edited by GhostRider73; 07-21-2009 at 10:08 PM. Reason: my spelling is horrible tonight

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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI View Post
    Are you sure that they said 4th amendment? That is a protection against unlawful searches and seizures. As far as I could see, nothing was searched and nothing was seized.

    This case will never see a courtroom. For all of the reasons stated here, the medic was as much in the wrong as the cop was.

    Now, if the lady in the back of the bus wanted to sue...
    Actually, the paramedic was "siezed" because he was arrested.

    This would probably be leading to the unlawful arrest argument.
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChiefKN View Post
    Actually, the paramedic was "siezed" because he was arrested.

    This would probably be leading to the unlawful arrest argument.
    I am not an attorney (my one redeeming quality), but I am pretty sure that the "seizure" that is referred to in the 4th amendment is the seizure of property. An argument for unlawful arrest could probably be made, but that is a different issue. There would be no unlawful arrest argument if the trooper hadn't let the guy go. But I have pointed that out about a hundred times.
    PROUD, HONORED AND HUMBLED RECIPIENT OF THE PURPLE HYDRANT AWARD - 10/2007.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI View Post
    I am not an attorney (my one redeeming quality), but I am pretty sure that the "seizure" that is referred to in the 4th amendment is the seizure of property. An argument for unlawful arrest could probably be made, but that is a different issue. There would be no unlawful arrest argument if the trooper hadn't let the guy go. But I have pointed that out about a hundred times.
    Could he be going for the argument that the OHP did not have probable cause to stop him in the first place? Not saying that he would be right, but I have heard that if a cop starts asking questions to find out if you broke the law without having probable cause it could be considered an unlawful search. I know there has been debate about wether or not LE has a right to ask for ID if there is no probable cause that a crime has been comitted.

    Not saying that is whap happened, but maybe that's the angle they are using.
    "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Benjamin Franklin

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    A quick read on Wikipedia (and yes George, I know how you feel about Wikipedia , but I think its a good resource for getting a quick feel for a subject) regarding the 4th. The full article is in the link, here are two quick sections of it:

    The amendment specifically requires search and arrest warrants be judicially sanctioned and supported by probable cause.
    A person is seized within the meaning of the Fourth Amendment only when by means of physical force or show of authority his freedom of movement is restrained, and in the circumstances surrounding the incident, a reasonable person would believe that he was not free to leave.
    Food for thought...
    "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Benjamin Franklin

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    Quote Originally Posted by MarcusKspn View Post
    Could he be going for the argument that the OHP did not have probable cause to stop him in the first place? Not saying that he would be right, but I have heard that if a cop starts asking questions to find out if you broke the law without having probable cause it could be considered an unlawful search. I know there has been debate about wether or not LE has a right to ask for ID if there is no probable cause that a crime has been comitted.

    Not saying that is whap happened, but maybe that's the angle they are using.
    They didn't stop him. They stopped the driver. If he had stayed in the ambulance, he would not have even been involved and we probably wouldn't be talking about it.

    BTW, you did notice that this went almost a month with no comment until the HS kid chimed in? I guess that blows the widespread interest theory.
    PROUD, HONORED AND HUMBLED RECIPIENT OF THE PURPLE HYDRANT AWARD - 10/2007.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MarcusKspn View Post
    A quick read on Wikipedia (and yes George, I know how you feel about Wikipedia , but I think its a good resource for getting a quick feel for a subject) regarding the 4th. The full article is in the link, here are two quick sections of it:




    Food for thought...
    That is not typically how it is applied, but I undertand the point.

    However, you need to realize that there are exceptions to that statement. Look at Terry v. Ohio for example. There are also exceptions in case law for exigent circumstances, furitive movements, on-view arrests, officer safety, etc.
    PROUD, HONORED AND HUMBLED RECIPIENT OF THE PURPLE HYDRANT AWARD - 10/2007.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI View Post
    That is not typically how it is applied, but I undertand the point.

    However, you need to realize that there are exceptions to that statement. Look at Terry v. Ohio for example. There are also exceptions in case law for exigent circumstances, furitive movements, on-view arrests, officer safety, etc.
    I was aware of the concepts of Terry stops and the like. And prior to today I have always taken the 4th to be about search warrants and evidence found, but I guess it deals more with warrants in general (both search and arrest). Maybe he is onto something, maybe he is grasping at straws - I guess we will see in the future. There has not been much in the local news here in Oklahoma about the case either over the last month or so.

    And yes, my first thought a couple of days ago was "Why are we bringing this up again?"
    "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Benjamin Franklin

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    Let me add the disclaimer that Constitutional Law is not exactly my expertise . So I don't have any real idea whether or not there is any merit to this case. I am simply a curious spectator.
    "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Benjamin Franklin

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    If it does make it to a jury, I think the trooper is screwed. The emotions will win out.

    I do think it is interesting that the Oklahoma Department of Public Safety is not included in the suit. While there is the consideration that Trooper Martin will quickly succumb to the attorney bills, and the state could fight it for years, there is also the deep pockets concept.

    Look for the state to really start distancing themselves from Trooper Martin.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LVFD301 View Post
    If it does make it to a jury, I think the trooper is screwed. The emotions will win out.

    I do think it is interesting that the Oklahoma Department of Public Safety is not included in the suit. While there is the consideration that Trooper Martin will quickly succumb to the attorney bills, and the state could fight it for years, there is also the deep pockets concept.

    Look for the state to really start distancing themselves from Trooper Martin.
    I am certain that there must be an immunity from torts situation here for the DPS.

    This will NEVER make it to a jury.
    PROUD, HONORED AND HUMBLED RECIPIENT OF THE PURPLE HYDRANT AWARD - 10/2007.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI View Post
    I am certain that there must be an immunity from torts situation here for the DPS.

    This will NEVER make it to a jury.
    I don't think that would extend to a civil rights claim?
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

    "The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list."

    "When tempted to fight fire with fire, remember that the Fire Department usually uses water."

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChiefKN View Post
    I don't think that would extend to a civil rights claim?
    No. But I think that the proofs you would need to say that the OK DPS as an institution violated his civil rights would be too tough. Civil rights cases aren't as easy as a lot of people think.
    PROUD, HONORED AND HUMBLED RECIPIENT OF THE PURPLE HYDRANT AWARD - 10/2007.

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