Thread: Okla. Troopers

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    Quote Originally Posted by ThNozzleman View Post
    Heh..we should start a legal firm and only accept cases we on which we have total agreement. Wouldn't be many, but Judge Judy wouldn't have **** on us.
    Don't you have even a little self-respect? Even acting like a lawyer would make me want to jump off the roof.
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI View Post
    ******bag comment aside, you are no doubt correct about some cooler heads prevailed somewhere. But the only way the State can get out of a heap of trouble is to charge the Medic, and have the matter heard in court. If they don't charge him, the Trooper is absolutely screwed.

    But the arrest was lawful-if he had made it properly-was lawful. He announced the Medic was under arrest-plainly and clearly. The charge he was arrested for was a misdemeanor (I think), and the Trooper has the discretion to make an arrest for the offense. Guilt or innocence is irelevant in determining whether it was lawful.

    Whatsa matter Marcus-cat got your fingers? I am waiting for your posts where I said the Trooper did nothing wrong.
    It would be a lawful arrest if the Medic did anything wrong. From what I saw he was inside the ambulance the entire time. That being the case, it would be an unlawful arrest and the trooper should be charged if not dismissed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    It would be a lawful arrest if the Medic did anything wrong. From what I saw he was inside the ambulance the entire time. That being the case, it would be an unlawful arrest and the trooper should be charged if not dismissed.
    Why do you post about this like you are an expert?

    Where did you get your law degree?

    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChiefKN View Post
    Why do you post about this like you are an expert?

    Where did you get your law degree?

    All this moron is doing is trying to argue with me. Just like he does with Noz and sc. Makes him feel like a big man. He is an expert in nothing. Particularly personal finances.
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI View Post
    All this moron is doing is trying to argue with me. Just like he does with Noz and sc. Makes him feel like a big man. He is an expert in nothing. Particularly personal finances.
    Yep, hottrotter is the definition of internet troll.

    .
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChiefKN View Post
    Why do you post about this like you are an expert?

    Where did you get your law degree?

    Who needs a law degree. We don't allow our police to go around just arresting people because they want to. Where did you lose your common sense?

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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI View Post
    All this moron is doing is trying to argue with me. Just like he does with Noz and sc. Makes him feel like a big man. He is an expert in nothing. Particularly personal finances.
    Don't flatter yourself, you are nothing. Rarely do you say anything worth commenting about.
    Last edited by ScareCrow57; 06-01-2009 at 09:50 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    Who needs a law degree.
    Yea, that's what I thought.

    We don't allow our police to go around just arresting people because they want to. Where did you lose your common sense?
    You don't allow it? Oh really? How do YOU stop it?

    The point isn't that it was correct. The question was "was it a legal arrest". Meaning did the officer follow the correct legal procedure (up until "un-arresting" him).

    According to those with a background in Law Enforcment, the answer is YES. It was a legal arrest. In that the procedure was correct.

    The question of guilt is then decided by the courts.

    Using your...er...not sure what I should call it.... using your rationale? Arrests are only legal (meaning the cop didn't break the law) when the person is guilty.

    How does a cop know they aren't guilty, since the cop doesn't determine guilt, the courts do?

    .
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChiefKN View Post
    Yea, that's what I thought.



    You don't allow it? Oh really? How do YOU stop it?

    The point isn't that it was correct. The question was "was it a legal arrest". Meaning did the officer follow the correct legal procedure (up until "un-arresting" him).

    According to those with a background in Law Enforcment, the answer is YES. It was a legal arrest. In that the procedure was correct.

    The question of guilt is then decided by the courts.

    Using your...er...not sure what I should call it.... using your rationale? Arrests are only legal (meaning the cop didn't break the law) when the person is guilty.

    How does a cop know they aren't guilty, since the cop doesn't determine guilt, the courts do?

    .
    The question is, "Is there probable cause to believe a crime was committed?" An agency can be sued for harassment and false imprisonment.

    From my friends at WIKI (although this is not an Authoritative source)
    Police Privilege

    Under United States law, a police officer has the right to detain someone if he has probable cause to believe a crime has been committed, and that the person is so involved, or if the officer has reasonable suspicion that the person has been, is, or is about to be, engaged in criminal activity based on specific and articulable facts and inferences.
    .

    From the video you can see the EMT is inside the ambulance caring for the patient. All of a sudden the cops are standing at the door wanting to arrest him. I don't see any bloody noses, fat lips, are any signs of an altercation. In fact, if there was a physical altercation they would have cuffed him right there. At best, he may have pushed one of the belligerent SOBs. Which if I'm on the jury. NOT GUILTY. Oh yea, you didn't need a law degree to be on a jury.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    The question is, "Is there probable cause to believe a crime was committed?" An agency can be sued for harassment and false imprisonment.
    Being sued means nothing. It means someone can hire an attorney.

    There was a crime committed in the opinion of the officer.

    From my friends at WIKI (although this is not an Authoritative source) .

    From the video you can see the EMT is inside the ambulance caring for the patient. All of a sudden the cops are standing at the door wanting to arrest him. I don't see any bloody noses, fat lips, are any signs of an altercation. In fact, if there was a physical altercation they would have cuffed him right there. At best, he may have pushed one of the belligerent SOBs. Which if I'm on the jury. NOT GUILTY. Oh yea, you didn't need a law degree to be on a jury.
    That entire statement misses the point.

    If an officer goes to arrest you and you are innocent. Are you going to fight him? What happens then?

    Answer: You are innocent of the crime and then guilty of assaulting a police officer.

    Great plan.

    So, to sum it up. You are wrong. It was a lawful arrest.

    .
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChiefKN View Post
    Being sued means nothing. It means someone can hire an attorney.

    There was a crime committed in the opinion of the officer.



    That entire statement misses the point.

    If an officer goes to arrest you and you are innocent. Are you going to fight him? What happens then?

    Answer: You are innocent of the crime and then guilty of assaulting a police officer.

    Great plan.

    So, to sum it up. You are wrong. It was a lawful arrest.

    .
    Dude. One word. Wikipedia.
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI View Post
    Dude. One word. Wikipedia.
    I know, I know!

    I forgot to bust him for that.

    Too funny!

    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

    "The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list."

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChiefKN View Post
    Being sued means nothing. It means someone can hire an attorney.

    There was a crime committed in the opinion of the officer.
    Apparently there was no crime because there was no arrest.

    That entire statement misses the point.

    If an officer goes to arrest you and you are innocent. Are you going to fight him? What happens then?

    Answer: You are innocent of the crime and then guilty of assaulting a police officer.

    Great plan.

    So, to sum it up. You are wrong. It was a lawful arrest.

    .
    It sets a dangerous precedent if we allow the Police to arrest whoever they want. That is what happened to the revolutionaries as well as those in Germany under Hitler. The police need to be kept in check

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChiefKN View Post
    I know, I know!

    I forgot to bust him for that.

    Too funny!

    No need for a bust. I said up front it was from wiki which isn't a good source, but it said it well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    Apparently there was no crime because there was no arrest.
    Keep guessing!

    Your favorite source.


    It sets a dangerous precedent if we allow the Police to arrest whoever they want. That is what happened to the revolutionaries as well as those in Germany under Hitler. The police need to be kept in check
    That's why they have procedures that they follow. When they don't they get in trouble. This trooper will probably get in trouble, not for starting to arrest this guy, but for stopping half way through. THAT was his mistake (in regards to the arrest procedure).

    Are you kidding me here or what????

    .
    Last edited by ChiefKN; 06-01-2009 at 12:28 PM.
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

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    Some of you may be forgetting that the person that was "under arrest" was not the driver and was not being placed under arrest for failure to yield to an emergency vehicle.

    The article stated that prior to the video being shot the EMT that was in the BACK of the ambulance assaulted the officer. What we see in the video was taken after that assault.

    Anyone that assaults an officer can be placed under arrest (and should be). However, in this case the "arrest" should have occurred after the patient was dropped off at the hospital, not on the side of the road.

    In my opinion, until we see the dash cam video everyone should chill out and withhold judgment. For all we know the EMT slugged the officer in the face; or he could have just pushed him, or he could have squirted saline fluid at him. *shrug* We don't know, and until we do all we have to go on is the video and accompanying article that admits the assault happened PRIOR to the video being started.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChiefKN View Post
    Keep guessing!

    Your favorite source.




    That's why they have procedures that they follow. When they don't they get in trouble. This trooper will probably get in trouble, not for starting to arrest this guy, but for stopping half way through. THAT was his mistake (in regards to the arrest procedure).

    Are you kidding me here or what????

    .

    Let me clarify one thing for you. WIKI is NOT my favorite source, it works to get a start sometimes. In the academic world it is essentially banned as a source. So I rarely use it except in non-academic settings when the data appears correct.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    Let me clarify one thing for you. WIKI is NOT my favorite source, it works to get a start sometimes. In the academic world it is essentially banned as a source. So I rarely use it except in non-academic settings when the data appears correct.
    What academic world is that? Your academic equivalent is Romper Room or Sesame Street.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarcusKspn View Post
    From the Cop Forums: The Cop was out of line

    From the EMS Forums: The Cop was out of line

    From the Fire Forums: The Cop was out of line

    From George: The Cops didn't do anything wrong

    Posted at Officer.com
    Hey bigmouth. I am still waiting.
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    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KluItc365hU has the scene shot from a witnesses video camera

    BTW, interference with paramedics in the performance of their duties is against the law in Oklahoma.

    also to ponder, the paramedic is black, the trooper is white, it is the south, just one more thing that may have contributed to the whole situation.
    Last edited by DrParasite; 06-01-2009 at 03:48 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrParasite View Post
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KluItc365hU has the scene shot from a witnesses video camera
    Yeah, we saw it back in Post #7.

    That video was actually shot by the patient's son, who was riding in the front of the ambulance while enroute to the hospital.

    also to ponder, the paramedic is black, the trooper is white, it is the south, just one more thing that may have contributed to the whole situation.
    I've always pondered calling Oklahoma part of the "The South." As a Southerner, I've always thought that OK was in the Midwest?
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoxAlarm187 View Post
    I've always pondered calling Oklahoma part of the "The South." As a Southerner, I've always thought that OK was in the Midwest?
    And i've always considered it the southern mid-west.

    Who knew!

    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DrParasite View Post

    also to ponder, the paramedic is black, the trooper is white, it is the south, just one more thing that may have contributed to the whole situation.
    Folks in Ok pretty much refer to themselfs as midwest over southern.

    As an aside, I have lived and worked in the Nawth, and the South. To me I saw more racial intolerance in NY then I ever saw in TN. Of course, there is intolerance everywhere.

    IMHO, YMMV
    Last edited by LVFD301; 06-01-2009 at 05:10 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BoxAlarm187 View Post
    Yeah, we saw it back in Post #7.

    That video was actually shot by the patient's son, who was riding in the front of the ambulance while enroute to the hospital.



    I've always pondered calling Oklahoma part of the "The South." As a Southerner, I've always thought that OK was in the Midwest?
    Genius comes on here at page 5 and acts like he has the scoop of the century. Plus he is wrong about most of it that has already been discussed.
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI View Post
    Genius comes on here at page 5 and acts like he has the scoop of the century. Plus he is wrong about most of it that has already been discussed.
    could you be more arrogant? you must have absolutely no friends to come on here and be an internet bully. I tended to ignore most of what you said, which was why I must have missed that it was posted below on of your posts.

    I was going to stay out of this, because it's pretty obvious who was in the wrong here. even though some people refuse to see the obvious

    I think the Trooper should be arrested and charged with interfering with a paramedic treating his patient. He should be fired. He should be made an example. and the family should sue him and the department for potential causing harm to the patient by delaying transport to definitive medical care. I'm sure Norm would hire him for his consulting firm, because he thinks the only thing the trooper did wrong was not finish arresting the medic. After all, like Norm, he's an infallible cop

    Most of the posters on officer.com think the cop was out of line, firehouse.com's posters think the cop was out of line, even the experts referenced in http://www.wusa9.com/news/columnist/...vestatter.html, which is a well known public safety reporter's blog, say the trooper was wrong. not to mention the family who just wanted the ambulance to treat the patient. but of course, our resident harebrain will gladly stand proud saying the cop is always right, and the medic should be in jail following the obviously legit arrest.

    of course, this whole situation could have been avoided if the cop had acted like an mature professional, and met the crew at the hospital after the patient was transferred to the ER staff. But since cops never make mistakes (according to a certain former cop), that is just an absurd idea
    Last edited by DrParasite; 06-01-2009 at 07:06 PM.
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