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Thread: Okla. Troopers

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    Quote Originally Posted by NewHampshireFF View Post
    If that maggot is wrong, he will go to jail.

    If that maggot is not wrong, he will not.

    If Oklahoma highway patrolmen continue to pull over ambualances for failing to yield to a cruiser, legislation will be passed stipultating that ambulances need not yield to a cruiser.

    If Oklahoma highway patrolmen are caught on camera applying sloppy chokeholds, that behaviour will be criminalized.

    If discretion is abused, discretion will be taken away. And then police will be less effective, and we will all pay the price.

    So someone at OHP should tear this angry child a new one. Not for "unarresting" the medic. But for being a ******, embarassing his agency, and jeopardizing the relationship between law enforcement and the citizenry in that county.
    You auditioning for Henry Fonda'a part in the remake of The Grapes of Wrath or what?
    PROUD, HONORED AND HUMBLED RECIPIENT OF THE PURPLE HYDRANT AWARD - 10/2007.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI View Post
    You auditioning for Henry Fonda'a part in the remake of The Grapes of Wrath or what?
    I just blew bourbon all over my screen.

    Thanks George.
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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    I just blew bourbon all over my screen.

    Thanks George.
    It's a gift.
    PROUD, HONORED AND HUMBLED RECIPIENT OF THE PURPLE HYDRANT AWARD - 10/2007.

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    Lets just wait and see what the outcome is, if a warrant is not issued then good.

    On a different note, something the family may want to look into along with other families. I am sure not many are aware of this site nor the information that can be obtained from it.

    http://www.nremt.org/nremt/about/checkEmtStatus.asp

    No where is Medic White listed as a NREMT but his partner is......hmmmmmmmmmmm so was any laws violated by the trooper for assaulting a medic while he performs his duties?

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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI View Post
    After reading the reports, my opinion hasn't changed much. Aside from the above, which I mostly agree with;

    * There was an awful lot of this incident that was not on tape.

    * Aside from resisting, the Medic hindered and he should be charged with that. THAT is what escalated this incident.

    * The Trooper is screwed internally.

    * I never heard of any cop shutting off his dash cam in a situation like that. There is only one reason he would shut it off; because he knew it was bad.

    * ALL of the reports were self serving.
    I agree...A LOT was missing from the video, and I don't have a clue why the trooper would turn off his dash cam. Most cops I know just let them run and don't even think about it.

    And yes, all the reports are self serving, but isn't that the way they always are? That's what makes video good (if we get the whole thing on tape). The video that is shown only portrays the end of the incident and not the initial part. *sigh*
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    I'm not sure if a link to the trooper's statements has been posted or not, but here you go: Troopers reports.
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  7. #157
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    Seems an abuse of power that someone would be arrested for flipping someone off. The more you hear about this the more you have to believe the troopers were being *********s.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI View Post
    You auditioning for Henry Fonda'a part in the remake of The Grapes of Wrath or what?

    Well, you've got the Barney Fife role about wrapped up, and Trooper Martin seems to be gunning for Harvey Kietel's role in the re-make of the Bad Lieutenant, so I guess I'll take Henry's part.

    I want to see the dash cam video. I agree that the statements of both the EMS crew and the troopers are self serving. I don't agree that the patient, her family, or random passers-by are being self-serving. The best thing for them personally would be to stay out of this ****ing match, but they aren't. They are all clearly on the EMS crew's side.

    I also want to know who the civilian female in Trooper Martin's cruiser was, and what he was doing with her. I didn't see her mentioned in his statement, which is quite an oversight on his part, don't you think? Failing to identify a witness who could corraborate his story?

    I want to know if that chokehold is an approved tactic.

    I want to know why Iker's dashcam was disabled.

    And I especially want to know if Trooper Martin in fact verbalized that he considered using deadly force.

    People following this thread may be interested to know that the ADA is investigating possible charges against not only White, but Martin as well (per Statter's site today).

    The more information that comes out, the worse things look for this trooper.
    Last edited by NewHampshireFF; 06-03-2009 at 11:58 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NathanWert View Post
    I agree...A LOT was missing from the video, and I don't have a clue why the trooper would turn off his dash cam. Most cops I know just let them run and don't even think about it.

    And yes, all the reports are self serving, but isn't that the way they always are? That's what makes video good (if we get the whole thing on tape). The video that is shown only portrays the end of the incident and not the initial part. *sigh*
    We'll get the dashcam footage eventually, assuming Martin didn't follow Iker's lead and turn his off. Open records requests are good for that sort of thing, and the media is usually happy to file such requests.

    The OHP wil be able to stall for quite a while using the "incident under investigation excuse" but not indefinately. How long they attempt to stall will be a fair indicator of what the vid will show.

    One thing we will learn from the video is whether Martin was running his siren, as he claims, or only lights, as all others claim. If he was only running lights, the ambulance driver isn't even guilty of failure to yield. There is no (legal) "Code 2" in Oklahoma.
    Last edited by NewHampshireFF; 06-03-2009 at 12:09 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI View Post
    I think if one wanted to take the time to search about 12000 posts, you would find a few advocating the concept of community policing. Except for tactical officers, wearing military style uniforms, IMO, is unprofessional.

    Let me ask a serious question. How tall is their police chief?
    Sorry, I missed this.

    To answer, I'd guess he is 5'10" or 5'11". Neither short nor tall.

    What he is is overweight. More than a little.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI View Post
    After reading the reports, my opinion hasn't changed much. Aside from the above, which I mostly agree with;

    * There was an awful lot of this incident that was not on tape.

    * Aside from resisting, the Medic hindered and he should be charged with that. THAT is what escalated this incident.

    * The Trooper is screwed internally.

    * I never heard of any cop shutting off his dash cam in a situation like that. There is only one reason he would shut it off; because he knew it was bad.

    * ALL of the reports were self serving.

    Pretty much nailed it. Beside the "event" that happen, heads would roll here if the camera was turned off.
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    Quote Originally Posted by KyleWickman View Post
    Pretty much nailed it. Beside the "event" that happen, heads would roll here if the camera was turned off.
    There's a very good chance that Ikers will be the one most jammed up in all this, which is ironic because he acted more professionally than anyone else involved.

    That said, you know that the dashcam was turned off because he pulled up to the scene and thought, "Holy crap, the idiot kid pulled over an AMBULANCE?!?!?"

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    In Oklahoma, it is NOT against the law to flip the bird to the law. Some enterprising journalist spent her time to research that one. There was a movement a while back to make assaulting an EMT a felony. If that has not gone through, then it is just a misdemeanor. I know the FOIA has been pursued by at least one TV station, but as was stated before, they will delay with the ongoing investigation line. I agree Trooper Iker will probably catch heck for turning off his camera, but I wonder how much more it would have shown. If he was parked right behind the other patrol car, we would have had a picture of the back end of it. I don't know if Ok's troopers wear camera mic's like I have seen other LEO's use. That would be one thing of interest if they do.

    MAtt

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    I don't see how Iker's camera would shed much on this as his would only have gotten the same thing that the family member did. Iker was not there for the initial stop and the initial altercation.

    I want to know if 606's camera was on and when we're going to get to see it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by NathanWert View Post
    And yes, all the reports are self serving, but isn't that the way they always are?
    No. The majority of the time they contain facts.
    PROUD, HONORED AND HUMBLED RECIPIENT OF THE PURPLE HYDRANT AWARD - 10/2007.

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    I don't agree that the patient, her family, or random passers-by are being self-serving.
    I never said anything abou tthe pt. or her family. I'm surprised that soneone as well-versed in law enforcement procedure as you are doesn't know the difference between a report and a statement.
    PROUD, HONORED AND HUMBLED RECIPIENT OF THE PURPLE HYDRANT AWARD - 10/2007.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NewHampshireFF View Post
    Sorry, I missed this.

    To answer, I'd guess he is 5'10" or 5'11". Neither short nor tall.

    What he is is overweight. More than a little.
    Same thing.

    I have this theory about people who spent their formative years having their lunch money taken away from them becoming police chiefs.
    PROUD, HONORED AND HUMBLED RECIPIENT OF THE PURPLE HYDRANT AWARD - 10/2007.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI View Post
    I never said anything abou tthe pt. or her family. I'm surprised that soneone as well-versed in law enforcement procedure as you are doesn't know the difference between a report and a statement.
    What, so NOW you're going to start being precise with the language?!?

    Fine, the REPORTS (in the narrow sense of an official report, rather than in the far more common and usual sense of "that which is reported") were self-serving, while the STATEMENTS were not.

    As for your dig about law enforcement procedure, given your understanding of the concept of abandonment, I'm comfortable that I understand law enforcement at least as well as you understand EMS.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI View Post
    Same thing.

    I have this theory about people who spent their formative years having their lunch money taken away from them becoming police chiefs.
    Sometimes, those same sorts of people become medics.

    Though probably not Medic White. I wonder if this whole thing would have gone down differently if he didn't have arms bigger than most guy's thighs?

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    I just spent the last 25 minutes reading all these posts and have made some observations:

    -We are quick to defend our roots, regardless of right or wrong (law enforcement roots, Fire, or EMS)
    -The trooper was wrong and unprofessional
    -The medic was wrong and unprofessional
    -Not a good PR situation for either agency

    I think the trooper was wrong to pursue the situation on the side of the road. I think the medic was wrong in his resistance to the trooper. Everyone needed to cool off and deal with it when it's not on the side of the road and the patient is taken care of.

    Back off on George....most of his career has been in law enforcement so naturally he would defend as much as possible. Most of us are fire or EMS for most of our career and we would do the same thing. Myself, having experience in both, I say we all agree that the outcome of this would have been completely different if the trooper would have controlled himself and taken care of it at the hospital.
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    Quote Originally Posted by NewHampshireFF View Post
    Sometimes, those same sorts of people become medics.

    Though probably not Medic White. I wonder if this whole thing would have gone down differently if he didn't have arms bigger than most guy's thighs?
    This thing would have gone down differently if he didn't have a mouth bigger than most guy's asses.
    PROUD, HONORED AND HUMBLED RECIPIENT OF THE PURPLE HYDRANT AWARD - 10/2007.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dickey View Post
    I just spent the last 25 minutes reading all these posts and have made some observations:

    -We are quick to defend our roots, regardless of right or wrong (law enforcement roots, Fire, or EMS)
    -The trooper was wrong and unprofessional
    -The medic was wrong and unprofessional
    -Not a good PR situation for either agency

    I think the trooper was wrong to pursue the situation on the side of the road. I think the medic was wrong in his resistance to the trooper. Everyone needed to cool off and deal with it when it's not on the side of the road and the patient is taken care of.

    Back off on George....most of his career has been in law enforcement so naturally he would defend as much as possible. Most of us are fire or EMS for most of our career and we would do the same thing. Myself, having experience in both, I say we all agree that the outcome of this would have been completely different if the trooper would have controlled himself and taken care of it at the hospital.
    Thanks for the support Jason, but I am really not defending the Trooper's actions in this case.
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    Quote Originally Posted by NewHampshireFF View Post
    What, so NOW you're going to start being precise with the language?!?

    Fine, the REPORTS (in the narrow sense of an official report, rather than in the far more common and usual sense of "that which is reported") were self-serving, while the STATEMENTS were not.

    As for your dig about law enforcement procedure, given your understanding of the concept of abandonment, I'm comfortable that I understand law enforcement at least as well as you understand EMS.
    What, so NOW you are going to continue taking things I say out of context.

    The point was (that big WHOOOOOOSH was you missing it) was that the public officials did not provide statements; they wrote reports (of which your definition is from a grammar school dictionary instead of pertaining to law enforcement) and the civilians provided verbal or written accounts in the form of a statement.

    As far as abandonment, you have been asked to enlighten us, professor. Why haven't you?
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI View Post
    Thanks for the support Jason, but I am really not defending the Trooper's actions in this case.
    I know you weren't but you know what I mean.
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    The issue of abandonment.....

    I don't think this situation would qualify because the level of care did not stop, it just got delayed a bit. No one "left" the patient and the condition of the patient did not worsen because of the delay.

    Maybe some hotshot lawyer could make a case of it but I think it would be pretty thin.
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