Okla. Troopers

[MarcusKspn]

So, in other words, you cannot demonstrate anywhere except in your little head that I believe the Trooper was right. Despite the fact that I clearly said he was wrong. Despite the fact that I have explained myself in painfully tedious detail. Despite the fact that I have been in situations and you have not involving arrests, you will continue to say, without basis that I believe the Trooper was right.

You called me out on this, pal. You thought you would get a cute little dig in, that everyone would jump to support you and that you would get a rise out of me. Well, you got no support and your opinion is so clearly wrong and based on absolute fabrications that it is not even worth getting a rise out of me.

You're right. You don't know me. But I think we have learned an awful lot about you.

This is the reason I come on here less and less...

[ChiefKN]

What are you talking about. Even the majority of the people on here cannot state what makes an arrest lawful. It is the court's job to sort disputes like this out.

David Koresh? That was a little over the top, don't you think?

Yea, David Koresh is over the top, that's why it's a joke.

Sorry ya didn't get it. It pains me to put a sarcastic or smiley thing in my posts. I do it, but it's so... cheesy.

[LVFD301]

All I see there is the same news article quoting the trooper's statements.

Do you have a link tothe statements themselves?

http://www.wusa9.com/news/columnist/...perscuffle.pdf

Trooper Iker mentions that he felt the dash camera was not needed so
he shut it off??????

OMG.

Trooper Martin makes no comment about his camera, at least I did not see it.

Shut it off?

Any properly installed law enforcement dashcam comes on automatically upon activation of the emergency lights. No one shuts it off because they think they won't need it. I will call utter BS on this one.

The question remains, did trooper Martin have or not have a dash camera, and did he "turn it off"?

[NewHampshireFF]

Ummm. The courts. Just like it has been for about 225 years.

And they will do so by interpreting and applying these things called, ummmm, laws. Which will be created, directly or indirectly, by the citizens, just as they have been for about 225 years.

Also, the question of whether an officer's actions are within bounds will at least occasionally be a question of fact, rather than law. In which case, the determination will be made by the trier of fact, which is often a jury (of citizens).

Not a lawyer and don't play one on TV, but I'm a fairly well informed citizen.

[ffmedic20]

http://www.wusa9.com/news/columnist/...perscuffle.pdf

Trooper Iker mentions that he felt the dash camera was not needed so
he shut it off??????

OMG.

Trooper Martin makes no comment about his camera, at least I did not see it.

Shut it off?

Any properly installed law enforcement dashcam comes on automatically upon activation of the emergency lights. No one shuts it off because they think they won't need it. I will call utter BS on this one.

The question remains, did trooper Martin have or not have a dash camera, and did he "turn it off"?

I read the troopers report:

The statements along with his "opinions" on patient care scream "COVER OUR ***, COVER OUR ***....DRAW ATTENTION AWAY FROM THE REAL ISSUE".

"I used an aggressive tone of voice"? etc? He released the medic cuz of his concerns to the ems needs of the residents of the county? come on.....what a DH.

[SPFDRum]

Right or wrong that is not my determination. That's for the power that be.
But with that said, I believe the trooper made the initial mistake. If it was such an issue and he had any sort of professionalism, he would have waited for that rig to complete the patient care and transport. Then argue or make his case on what he felt was the indiscretion.
He initiated the problem.
He escalated the problem.

[NathanWert]

After reading the reports (even the one from the police that had the right side of the page cut off). I have come to several personal conclusions:

1. The driver of the ambulance failed to yield (for whatever reason)
2. The Paramedic resisted arrest (the first time, prior to the camera rolling)
3. The Paramedic resisted arrest the second time (after the camera was rolling)
4. If this same scenario of resisting arrest were to have involved anyone besides a paramedic the person would have probably been thrown to the ground and tazed (that's what I'd have done), but this is speculation on my part.
5. Everyone got carried away and things should never have gotten to where they did.

Quotes:

From Driver’s Report:

• I did not see this unit approach...(speaking of the trooper)

In my opinion the driver’s report sucks. There is no real information there. I was asked to write a police report for a call I went on and it turned out to be several pages long for something that only took a couple of minutes in real time.

From the Medics Report:

• ..after a brief struggle…(sounds like resisting arrest to me).
• When officer 606 was again unable to maneuver my right arm behind my back…(resisting arrest again).

From Trooper Iker Report:

• Martin related to the Medic…that he [missing] under arrest. (By my inference 606 was placing the medic under arrest and he would be physically taken into custody at the hospital.
• Martin and White became involved in a physical altercation. (resisting arrest).
• I related to Martin and White we should sort [missing] at the hospital.

From the Police Officer 606 Report:

• I observed the ambulance [missing] have any emergency equipment activated and was travelling approximat[missing] speed limit. The ambulance continued west , failing to yield… (failure to yeild)
• Mr White continued to obstruct my [missing] continuing to position himself between me and the driver, not allowing [missing] talk to Mr. Franks. (obstructing the officer)
• I attempt[missing] take Mr. White into custody but he flexed his arms up to his chest preve[missing] me from having control of his arm to place him in handcuffs (sounds like resisting arrest).
• We quickly became involved in another altercation after Mr White to[missing] of my left arm. (resisting arrest)
• Mr White was against the ambulance and maintained his hold on me. (sounds like resisting arrest).

If this were to happen again, I would hope people would be able to keep their heads. As it looks to me the medic blew the whole thing out of proportion. If he had just let the driver deal with this they probably would have gotten back on the road within a short period of time. Yes, the police officer got upset. Understandably so. You don’t get in a police officers face and argue. White had no business getting involved in the way he did.

We're all on the same team people. Can't we act like it?

[GeorgeWendtCFI]

And they will do so by interpreting and applying these things called, ummmm, laws. Which will be created, directly or indirectly, by the citizens, just as they have been for about 225 years.

Also, the question of whether an officer's actions are within bounds will at least occasionally be a question of fact, rather than law. In which case, the determination will be made by the trier of fact, which is often a jury (of citizens).

Not a lawyer and don't play one on TV, but I'm a fairly well informed citizen.

And a judge, jury, attorney, legislator or whoever else you want to lay this on will NOT be on the street at 3 AM when the meth maggot decides to resist because he is of the opinion that it is unlawful to arrest someone for exercising their right to free enterprise by distribution of meth.

Thanks for making my point.

[GeorgeWendtCFI]

After reading the reports (even the one from the police that had the right side of the page cut off). I have come to several personal conclusions:

1. The driver of the ambulance failed to yield (for whatever reason)
2. The Paramedic resisted arrest (the first time, prior to the camera rolling)
3. The Paramedic resisted arrest the second time (after the camera was rolling)
4. If this same scenario of resisting arrest were to have involved anyone besides a paramedic the person would have probably been thrown to the ground and tazed (that's what I'd have done), but this is speculation on my part.
5. Everyone got carried away and things should never have gotten to where they did.

Quotes:

From Driver’s Report:

• I did not see this unit approach...(speaking of the trooper)

In my opinion the driver’s report sucks. There is no real information there. I was asked to write a police report for a call I went on and it turned out to be several pages long for something that only took a couple of minutes in real time.

From the Medics Report:

• ..after a brief struggle…(sounds like resisting arrest to me).
• When officer 606 was again unable to maneuver my right arm behind my back…(resisting arrest again).

From Trooper Iker Report:

• Martin related to the Medic…that he [missing] under arrest. (By my inference 606 was placing the medic under arrest and he would be physically taken into custody at the hospital.
• Martin and White became involved in a physical altercation. (resisting arrest).
• I related to Martin and White we should sort [missing] at the hospital.

From the Police Officer 606 Report:

• I observed the ambulance [missing] have any emergency equipment activated and was travelling approximat[missing] speed limit. The ambulance continued west , failing to yield… (failure to yeild)
• Mr White continued to obstruct my [missing] continuing to position himself between me and the driver, not allowing [missing] talk to Mr. Franks. (obstructing the officer)
• I attempt[missing] take Mr. White into custody but he flexed his arms up to his chest preve[missing] me from having control of his arm to place him in handcuffs (sounds like resisting arrest).
• We quickly became involved in another altercation after Mr White to[missing] of my left arm. (resisting arrest)
• Mr White was against the ambulance and maintained his hold on me. (sounds like resisting arrest).

If this were to happen again, I would hope people would be able to keep their heads. As it looks to me the medic blew the whole thing out of proportion. If he had just let the driver deal with this they probably would have gotten back on the road within a short period of time. Yes, the police officer got upset. Understandably so. You don’t get in a police officers face and argue. White had no business getting involved in the way he did.

We're all on the same team people. Can't we act like it?

After reading the reports, my opinion hasn't changed much. Aside from the above, which I mostly agree with;

* There was an awful lot of this incident that was not on tape.

* Aside from resisting, the Medic hindered and he should be charged with that. THAT is what escalated this incident.

* The Trooper is screwed internally.

* I never heard of any cop shutting off his dash cam in a situation like that. There is only one reason he would shut it off; because he knew it was bad.

* ALL of the reports were self serving.

[NewHampshireFF]

And a judge, jury, attorney, legislator or whoever else you want to lay this on will NOT be on the street at 3 AM when the meth maggot decides to resist because he is of the opinion that it is unlawful to arrest someone for exercising their right to free enterprise by distribution of meth.

Thanks for making my point.

If that maggot is wrong, he will go to jail.

If that maggot is not wrong, he will not.

If Oklahoma highway patrolmen continue to pull over ambualances for failing to yield to a cruiser, legislation will be passed stipultating that ambulances need not yield to a cruiser.

If Oklahoma highway patrolmen are caught on camera applying sloppy chokeholds, that behaviour will be criminalized.

If discretion is abused, discretion will be taken away. And then police will be less effective, and we will all pay the price.

So someone at OHP should tear this angry child a new one. Not for "unarresting" the medic. But for being a ******, embarassing his agency, and jeopardizing the relationship between law enforcement and the citizenry in that county.

[GeorgeWendtCFI]

If that maggot is wrong, he will go to jail.

If that maggot is not wrong, he will not.

If Oklahoma highway patrolmen continue to pull over ambualances for failing to yield to a cruiser, legislation will be passed stipultating that ambulances need not yield to a cruiser.

If Oklahoma highway patrolmen are caught on camera applying sloppy chokeholds, that behaviour will be criminalized.

If discretion is abused, discretion will be taken away. And then police will be less effective, and we will all pay the price.

So someone at OHP should tear this angry child a new one. Not for "unarresting" the medic. But for being a ******, embarassing his agency, and jeopardizing the relationship between law enforcement and the citizenry in that county.

You auditioning for Henry Fonda'a part in the remake of The Grapes of Wrath or what?

[scfire86]

You auditioning for Henry Fonda'a part in the remake of The Grapes of Wrath or what?

I just blew bourbon all over my screen.

Thanks George.

[GeorgeWendtCFI]

I just blew bourbon all over my screen.

Thanks George.

It's a gift.

[brivette]

Lets just wait and see what the outcome is, if a warrant is not issued then good.

On a different note, something the family may want to look into along with other families. I am sure not many are aware of this site nor the information that can be obtained from it.

http://www.nremt.org/nremt/about/checkEmtStatus.asp

No where is Medic White listed as a NREMT but his partner is......hmmmmmmmmmmm so was any laws violated by the trooper for assaulting a medic while he performs his duties?

[NathanWert]

After reading the reports, my opinion hasn't changed much. Aside from the above, which I mostly agree with;

* There was an awful lot of this incident that was not on tape.

* Aside from resisting, the Medic hindered and he should be charged with that. THAT is what escalated this incident.

* The Trooper is screwed internally.

* I never heard of any cop shutting off his dash cam in a situation like that. There is only one reason he would shut it off; because he knew it was bad.

* ALL of the reports were self serving.

I agree...A LOT was missing from the video, and I don't have a clue why the trooper would turn off his dash cam. Most cops I know just let them run and don't even think about it.

And yes, all the reports are self serving, but isn't that the way they always are? That's what makes video good (if we get the whole thing on tape). The video that is shown only portrays the end of the incident and not the initial part. *sigh*

[BoxAlarm187]

I'm not sure if a link to the trooper's statements has been posted or not, but here you go: Troopers reports.

[ScareCrow57]

Seems an abuse of power that someone would be arrested for flipping someone off. The more you hear about this the more you have to believe the troopers were being *********s.

[NewHampshireFF]

You auditioning for Henry Fonda'a part in the remake of The Grapes of Wrath or what?

Well, you've got the Barney Fife role about wrapped up, and Trooper Martin seems to be gunning for Harvey Kietel's role in the re-make of the Bad Lieutenant, so I guess I'll take Henry's part.

I want to see the dash cam video. I agree that the statements of both the EMS crew and the troopers are self serving. I don't agree that the patient, her family, or random passers-by are being self-serving. The best thing for them personally would be to stay out of this ****ing match, but they aren't. They are all clearly on the EMS crew's side.

I also want to know who the civilian female in Trooper Martin's cruiser was, and what he was doing with her. I didn't see her mentioned in his statement, which is quite an oversight on his part, don't you think? Failing to identify a witness who could corraborate his story?

I want to know if that chokehold is an approved tactic.

I want to know why Iker's dashcam was disabled.

And I especially want to know if Trooper Martin in fact verbalized that he considered using deadly force.

People following this thread may be interested to know that the ADA is investigating possible charges against not only White, but Martin as well (per Statter's site today).

The more information that comes out, the worse things look for this trooper.

[NewHampshireFF]

I agree...A LOT was missing from the video, and I don't have a clue why the trooper would turn off his dash cam. Most cops I know just let them run and don't even think about it.

And yes, all the reports are self serving, but isn't that the way they always are? That's what makes video good (if we get the whole thing on tape). The video that is shown only portrays the end of the incident and not the initial part. *sigh*

We'll get the dashcam footage eventually, assuming Martin didn't follow Iker's lead and turn his off. Open records requests are good for that sort of thing, and the media is usually happy to file such requests.

The OHP wil be able to stall for quite a while using the "incident under investigation excuse" but not indefinately. How long they attempt to stall will be a fair indicator of what the vid will show.

One thing we will learn from the video is whether Martin was running his siren, as he claims, or only lights, as all others claim. If he was only running lights, the ambulance driver isn't even guilty of failure to yield. There is no (legal) "Code 2" in Oklahoma.

[NewHampshireFF]

I think if one wanted to take the time to search about 12000 posts, you would find a few advocating the concept of community policing. Except for tactical officers, wearing military style uniforms, IMO, is unprofessional.

Let me ask a serious question. How tall is their police chief?

Sorry, I missed this.

To answer, I'd guess he is 5'10" or 5'11". Neither short nor tall.

What he is is overweight. More than a little.