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Thread: Okla. Troopers

  1. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI View Post
    After reading the reports, my opinion hasn't changed much. Aside from the above, which I mostly agree with;

    * There was an awful lot of this incident that was not on tape.

    * Aside from resisting, the Medic hindered and he should be charged with that. THAT is what escalated this incident.

    * The Trooper is screwed internally.

    * I never heard of any cop shutting off his dash cam in a situation like that. There is only one reason he would shut it off; because he knew it was bad.

    * ALL of the reports were self serving.

    Pretty much nailed it. Beside the "event" that happen, heads would roll here if the camera was turned off.
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    Quote Originally Posted by KyleWickman View Post
    Pretty much nailed it. Beside the "event" that happen, heads would roll here if the camera was turned off.
    There's a very good chance that Ikers will be the one most jammed up in all this, which is ironic because he acted more professionally than anyone else involved.

    That said, you know that the dashcam was turned off because he pulled up to the scene and thought, "Holy crap, the idiot kid pulled over an AMBULANCE?!?!?"

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    In Oklahoma, it is NOT against the law to flip the bird to the law. Some enterprising journalist spent her time to research that one. There was a movement a while back to make assaulting an EMT a felony. If that has not gone through, then it is just a misdemeanor. I know the FOIA has been pursued by at least one TV station, but as was stated before, they will delay with the ongoing investigation line. I agree Trooper Iker will probably catch heck for turning off his camera, but I wonder how much more it would have shown. If he was parked right behind the other patrol car, we would have had a picture of the back end of it. I don't know if Ok's troopers wear camera mic's like I have seen other LEO's use. That would be one thing of interest if they do.

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    MembersZone Subscriber NathanWert's Avatar
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    I don't see how Iker's camera would shed much on this as his would only have gotten the same thing that the family member did. Iker was not there for the initial stop and the initial altercation.

    I want to know if 606's camera was on and when we're going to get to see it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by NathanWert View Post
    And yes, all the reports are self serving, but isn't that the way they always are?
    No. The majority of the time they contain facts.
    PROUD, HONORED AND HUMBLED RECIPIENT OF THE PURPLE HYDRANT AWARD - 10/2007.

  6. #166
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    I don't agree that the patient, her family, or random passers-by are being self-serving.
    I never said anything abou tthe pt. or her family. I'm surprised that soneone as well-versed in law enforcement procedure as you are doesn't know the difference between a report and a statement.
    PROUD, HONORED AND HUMBLED RECIPIENT OF THE PURPLE HYDRANT AWARD - 10/2007.

  7. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by NewHampshireFF View Post
    Sorry, I missed this.

    To answer, I'd guess he is 5'10" or 5'11". Neither short nor tall.

    What he is is overweight. More than a little.
    Same thing.

    I have this theory about people who spent their formative years having their lunch money taken away from them becoming police chiefs.
    PROUD, HONORED AND HUMBLED RECIPIENT OF THE PURPLE HYDRANT AWARD - 10/2007.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI View Post
    I never said anything abou tthe pt. or her family. I'm surprised that soneone as well-versed in law enforcement procedure as you are doesn't know the difference between a report and a statement.
    What, so NOW you're going to start being precise with the language?!?

    Fine, the REPORTS (in the narrow sense of an official report, rather than in the far more common and usual sense of "that which is reported") were self-serving, while the STATEMENTS were not.

    As for your dig about law enforcement procedure, given your understanding of the concept of abandonment, I'm comfortable that I understand law enforcement at least as well as you understand EMS.

  9. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI View Post
    Same thing.

    I have this theory about people who spent their formative years having their lunch money taken away from them becoming police chiefs.
    Sometimes, those same sorts of people become medics.

    Though probably not Medic White. I wonder if this whole thing would have gone down differently if he didn't have arms bigger than most guy's thighs?

  10. #170
    MembersZone Subscriber Dickey's Avatar
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    I just spent the last 25 minutes reading all these posts and have made some observations:

    -We are quick to defend our roots, regardless of right or wrong (law enforcement roots, Fire, or EMS)
    -The trooper was wrong and unprofessional
    -The medic was wrong and unprofessional
    -Not a good PR situation for either agency

    I think the trooper was wrong to pursue the situation on the side of the road. I think the medic was wrong in his resistance to the trooper. Everyone needed to cool off and deal with it when it's not on the side of the road and the patient is taken care of.

    Back off on George....most of his career has been in law enforcement so naturally he would defend as much as possible. Most of us are fire or EMS for most of our career and we would do the same thing. Myself, having experience in both, I say we all agree that the outcome of this would have been completely different if the trooper would have controlled himself and taken care of it at the hospital.
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  11. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by NewHampshireFF View Post
    Sometimes, those same sorts of people become medics.

    Though probably not Medic White. I wonder if this whole thing would have gone down differently if he didn't have arms bigger than most guy's thighs?
    This thing would have gone down differently if he didn't have a mouth bigger than most guy's asses.
    PROUD, HONORED AND HUMBLED RECIPIENT OF THE PURPLE HYDRANT AWARD - 10/2007.

  12. #172
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dickey View Post
    I just spent the last 25 minutes reading all these posts and have made some observations:

    -We are quick to defend our roots, regardless of right or wrong (law enforcement roots, Fire, or EMS)
    -The trooper was wrong and unprofessional
    -The medic was wrong and unprofessional
    -Not a good PR situation for either agency

    I think the trooper was wrong to pursue the situation on the side of the road. I think the medic was wrong in his resistance to the trooper. Everyone needed to cool off and deal with it when it's not on the side of the road and the patient is taken care of.

    Back off on George....most of his career has been in law enforcement so naturally he would defend as much as possible. Most of us are fire or EMS for most of our career and we would do the same thing. Myself, having experience in both, I say we all agree that the outcome of this would have been completely different if the trooper would have controlled himself and taken care of it at the hospital.
    Thanks for the support Jason, but I am really not defending the Trooper's actions in this case.
    PROUD, HONORED AND HUMBLED RECIPIENT OF THE PURPLE HYDRANT AWARD - 10/2007.

  13. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by NewHampshireFF View Post
    What, so NOW you're going to start being precise with the language?!?

    Fine, the REPORTS (in the narrow sense of an official report, rather than in the far more common and usual sense of "that which is reported") were self-serving, while the STATEMENTS were not.

    As for your dig about law enforcement procedure, given your understanding of the concept of abandonment, I'm comfortable that I understand law enforcement at least as well as you understand EMS.
    What, so NOW you are going to continue taking things I say out of context.

    The point was (that big WHOOOOOOSH was you missing it) was that the public officials did not provide statements; they wrote reports (of which your definition is from a grammar school dictionary instead of pertaining to law enforcement) and the civilians provided verbal or written accounts in the form of a statement.

    As far as abandonment, you have been asked to enlighten us, professor. Why haven't you?
    PROUD, HONORED AND HUMBLED RECIPIENT OF THE PURPLE HYDRANT AWARD - 10/2007.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI View Post
    Thanks for the support Jason, but I am really not defending the Trooper's actions in this case.
    I know you weren't but you know what I mean.
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  15. #175
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    The issue of abandonment.....

    I don't think this situation would qualify because the level of care did not stop, it just got delayed a bit. No one "left" the patient and the condition of the patient did not worsen because of the delay.

    Maybe some hotshot lawyer could make a case of it but I think it would be pretty thin.
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI View Post
    I think if one wanted to take the time to search about 12000 posts, you would find a few advocating the concept of community policing. Except for tactical officers, wearing military style uniforms, IMO, is unprofessional.

    Let me ask a serious question. How tall is their police chief?
    I agree with that as well. They are police officers not commandos. The two have a completely different mission and mindset.
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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    I agree with that as well. They are police officers not commandos. The two have a completely different mission and mindset.
    Four times.
    PROUD, HONORED AND HUMBLED RECIPIENT OF THE PURPLE HYDRANT AWARD - 10/2007.

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    SAPULPA, Okla. -- A paramedic involved in an altercation with an Oklahoma Highway Patrol trooper in May will not be charged, prosecutors said Friday.

    In a statement released by Creek and Okfuskee County District Attorney Max Cook, he wrote that he hoped OHP would use the incident as a way to "open a dialogue about ways to forge good relationships with their partner agencies."

    Cook said he will ask the OHP to release the trooper's dash-cam video of the incident in response to public interest.

    Trooper Daniel Martin alleged that Creek Nation paramedic Maurice White Jr. acted aggressively toward him after Martin stopped his ambulance. Martin believed White's partner, Paul Franks, of raising his middle finger toward him.

    Franks denies ever making an obscene gesture toward the trooper.

    Martin chased the ambulance until it pulled over. Once he got out of his cruiser, he reports he was trying to talk to Franks when he saw White get out of the ambulance and slam the "door in a hostile manner."

    Martin said White kept getting between them, despite repeatedly being told by Martin to back off.

    In his report, White claims the trooper bolted out of his car in a huff and yelled at Franks, "What do you mean flipping me off?"

    White said he tried to explain to the trooper that they were taking a woman to a hospital and asked if they could continue the matter once they got there.

    Martin said White kept getting in his way, and he finally tried to arrest on charges of obstructing an officer. That sparked the first of two scuffles as Martin said he tried to arrest White but the paramedic threw up his arms to resist.

    The trooper said only when White got back into the ambulance was he able to speak with Franks. Martin said Franks assured him he did not give the trooper the finger gesture and apologized for not yielding.

    The trooper said he then walked around to the passenger side of the ambulance where White was standing and another scuffle ensued, and Martin said White grabbed him around the neck, refusing to let go. Martin said he applied a choke hold on White's neck to release the grip.

    With White calmed down, Martin said he told the paramedics to go to the hospital and he would follow.

    Martin said that if he were allowed to speak with Franks uninterrupted, the confrontation would not have happened.

    Franks ultimately was given a written warning for failure to yield. White was not arrested at the hospital. The patient in the ambulance was treated at the hospital for heat exhaustion.
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  19. #179
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    http://www.fox23.com/mediacenter/loc...rticleID=39136

    Its interesting - the DA said there enough evidence to file charges against the medic, and that he was not "does not condone the actions of anyone, and that includes very emphatically very strongly the actions of Trooper Martin"

    in many cases OHP will not release dash cam video, but fox 23 has an open records request pending.

    So, he knows there is enough to file charges against the medic, but also knows there is no way he will get a conviction.

    I wonder what would happen if the Medic goes and asks for charges to be filed against the trooper? (again)

    While some may say let it go - both were at fault, I don't agree. The Medics faults were not directly related to the every day performance at his job, but the troopers issues were things he has to deal with every day.

    Its obvious to me that the Medic has show he can do his job - for 30 years now.

    The trooper is barely a rookie, and shows some serious deficiencies in his people skills.

  20. #180
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    As a firefighter in New Zealand, I am a little loathe to state that I know a great deal about Oklahoma State law or even US law in general, but comments I have read on Officer.com suggest it is possible for an Officer to change his mind and "un-arrest" someone that has been arrested. It certainly seems this is what has happened in this case, when the ambulance was allowed to proceed to the hospital.
    The interview with the driver of the ambulance http://www.news9.com/Global/category...clipId=3825453 has the ring of truth about it and the fuller video of the incident caught on camera phone clearly shows events from White getting out of the Ambulance. The OHP dash video has not been shown and it is that which would quickly verify the truth or otherwise of a number of Officer Martin's statements.
    If it is true that he lied about driving with his siren on, and lied about the Ambulance driver extending his hand out the window and flipping him the finger then he simply is not someone who should be giving evidence in court much less driving an emergency vehicle or carrying a gun.
    George the OHP have some serious issues here, and millions around the world (like me) are following it with interest and not liking much of what we see.
    Jim Maclean. IACOJ NZ branch

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