Thread: Okla. Troopers

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    Thumbs down Okla. Troopers

    Scuffle Between Oklahoma Troopers, Medic Caught on Tape


    BOLEY, Okla. -- Oklahoma Highway Patrol troopers get into a fight with a paramedic and it is all caught on video tape.

    The incident happened near Boley in Okfuskee County.

    In the video, you see OHP troopers pushing the paramedic and grabbing his neck.

    The fight happened during an emergency call when a patient waiting to be taken to the local hospital was in the back of the ambulance.

    Officials say OHP troopers became upset after the paramedic failed to yield while the troopers were rushing to a call of their own.

    The troopers claim the paramedic assaulted one of them before the camera started rolling.

    The video was shot by the patient's son. He says he continually asked the troopers to stop, so his mom could be taken to the hospital.

    "We're like telling this dude. Man, my mom is in the back. My step-dad was like man my wife is in the back, can we do this at the hospital?" said Kenyada Davis.

    The patient was finally taken to the hospital where she was treated and released.

    The Oklahoma Highway Patrol won't comment on the video while it's being reviewed by Okfuskee County prosecutors.

    Republished with permission of KOTV.


    Watch the video on the firehouse home page. I almost always support LE but holding the guy by the neck was dumb. The are not trying to arrest him. They are just being bullies with a badge.
    FF/Paramedic

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    You are dead wrong. Watch the video again.

    This was not a fight. This was the medic resisting arrest. The trooper very clearly tells the medic "You are under arrest", and begins to take him into custody. At that point, the medic resists and assaults the arresting officer.

    Once a citizen is placed under arrest, they are legally required to submit to the arrest. They are not permitted to resist or physically assault the officer. The question of whether the arrest is lawful will be dealt with later. The question of guilt will be dealt with later. That medic had a legal responsibility to submit to the arrest.

    We have zero idea what occurred prior to the tape rolling. Too friggin' bad that the medic got held by the neck. Do not resist arrest.
    PROUD, HONORED AND HUMBLED RECIPIENT OF THE PURPLE HYDRANT AWARD - 10/2007.

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    Thumbs down Oklahoma STORM Troopers

    Just watched the video, and IMHO, the skinhead, Oklahoma Storm Troopers should be fired, and then prosecuted. There was clearly no reason, especially with a patient in the back of the rig. Just giving good cops a bad image.....

    On Edit: To George's point, the sound is dead on my laptop, so I can't hear what's said, only view...
    Last edited by DFDCar1; 05-27-2009 at 01:05 PM.
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    If he was under arrest, why did they let him go?

    The answer because some badge totting gun bunny with a too high opinion of himself and an over inflated sense of authority was WRONG and he knows it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DFDCar1 View Post
    Just watched the video, and IMHO, the skinhead, Oklahoma Storm Troopers should be fired, and then prosecuted. There was clearly no reason, especially with a patient in the back of the rig. Just giving good cops a bad image.....

    On Edit: To George's point, the sound is dead on my laptop, so I can't hear what's said, only view...
    Then maybe you should hold up your inflammatory post until you actually hear all the evidence that is available.
    PROUD, HONORED AND HUMBLED RECIPIENT OF THE PURPLE HYDRANT AWARD - 10/2007.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jlcooke3 View Post
    If he was under arrest, why did they let him go?

    The answer because some badge totting gun bunny with a too high opinion of himself and an over inflated sense of authority was WRONG and he knows it.
    Where does it say they let him go? In the video, he is in the back of the RC. In the three news stories I have found, there is no mention that he was let go. In the SL piece, there is no mention that he was let go.

    Where did you get your info, anti-cop one?
    PROUD, HONORED AND HUMBLED RECIPIENT OF THE PURPLE HYDRANT AWARD - 10/2007.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI View Post
    Where does it say they let him go? In the video, he is in the back of the RC. In the three news stories I have found, there is no mention that he was let go. In the SL piece, there is no mention that he was let go.

    Where did you get your info, anti-cop one?
    When they let him go into the rear of the ambulance and turned and walked away from it, they relequished they're control of the medic. If he was under arrest, why did they do that? In the following video at approx 2:55 both troopers (including Trooper "YOU ARE UNDER ARREST") walk away from their aresttee and allow him to reenter the ambulance and shut the door. No matter how you cut it he is now out of their custody.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KluItc365hU

    Your response is as timely and predictable as usual when it concerns anything that you consider anti-cop. You instantly jump to their defense all the while telling others to wait for all the evidence. Maybe you should heed your own advice.

    FYI, I'm not anti-cop. Its kinda hard to be when you've worked in LE and so have most of the males in your family. I've been around cops all my life and this isn't a case of me being anti-cop its about being anti-*****.
    Last edited by jlcooke3; 05-27-2009 at 02:04 PM.

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    I'm confused.

    The call the troopers were running was so important that they needed to move an ambulance on an emergency transport out of the way.

    But they had time to stop, lecture the driver, escalate the situation and arrest him?

    I'm inclined, as I usually am, to excuse the troopers by invoking the, "Everyone has a bad day sometime" exemption.

    But let's not pretend that this trooper didn't have a bad day. He acted like an *****.
    Last edited by NewHampshireFF; 05-27-2009 at 02:25 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NewHampshireFF View Post
    I'm confused.

    The call the troopers were running was so important that they needed to move an ambulance on an emergency transport out of the way.

    But they had time to stop, lecture the driver, escalate the situation and arrest him?

    I'm incliined, as I usually am, to excuse the troopers by invoking the, "Everyone has a bad day sometime" exemption.

    But let's not pretend that this trooper didn't have a bad day. He acted like an *****.
    The news reports I have read indicate that they finished the call and returned to the EMS job to arrest the medic.
    PROUD, HONORED AND HUMBLED RECIPIENT OF THE PURPLE HYDRANT AWARD - 10/2007.

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    So I am curious. I have two responding agencies responding to two different emergencies. Is there a precedence protocol as to who has the higher authority?

    A few years back now we had a deputy come up behind our rescue rig, he called dispatch to have them tell us to move over. As it turns out, he was headed to the same medical emergency. He did nothing when he got there.

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    Bad, bad, bad.

    Completely unprofessional by the LEO. Wanna arrest him, fine, do it after the call is done. NOT with a patient in the back.

    Someone needs a friggin brain check.

    George, sorry, there is NO defending this. At all.
    AJ, MICP, FireMedic
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI View Post

    Once a citizen is placed under arrest, they are legally required to submit to the arrest. They are not permitted to resist or physically assault the officer. The question of whether the arrest is lawful will be dealt with later. The question of guilt will be dealt with later. That medic had a legal responsibility to submit to the arrest.
    While I don't pretend to know the law in Oklahoma, the above is not always true.

    In New Hampshire, an unlawful arrest is assault, and may be (lawfully) resisted, including with force up to and including deadly force.

    In general, the side of the road is a lousy place to hold these sorts of debates. This should have been dealt with through the respective chains of command.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jlcooke3 View Post
    When they let him go into the rear of the ambulance and turned and walked away from it, they relequished they're control of the medic. If he was under arrest, why did they do that? In the following video at approx 2:55 both troopers (including Trooper "YOU ARE UNDER ARREST") walk away from their aresttee and allow him to reenter the ambulance and shut the door. No matter how you cut it he is now out of their custody.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KluItc365hU

    Your response is as timely and predictable as usual when it concerns anything that you consider anti-cop. You instantly jump to their defense all the while telling others to wait for all the evidence. Maybe you should heed your own advice.

    FYI, I'm not anti-cop. Its kinda hard to be when you've worked in LE and so have most of the males in your family. I've been around cops all my life and this isn't a case of me being anti-cop its about being anti-*****.
    When someone tells me that they "worked in LE" instead telling me they are a cop, I know that they are either a security guard ir a dispatcher. So spare me. How do the other "males" in your family feel about calling police officers "...badge totting gun bunny with a too high opinion of himself and an over inflated sense of authority...?". That is the sign of an anti-cop maggot.

    If you think that I always defend cops, I would direct you to the recent thread re: the CHP kicking a surrendered suspect into unconsciousness and the threads regarding police officers dressing as FF to execute search warrants. In both of those threads, I emphatically stated that LE was wrong.

    In fact, I will say that, in this case, the Troopers were wrong in one instance. Once you place someone under arrest, you NEVER "un-arrest" them. Especially when I had to put my hands on you and you put your hands on me. That is a sure-fire way to a lawsuit. If you utter the words "under arrest" and you take steps to deprive that person of his liberty, that person will only be let free by a judge or on bail. Furthermore, if you put your hands on me, you are going to jail. Period.

    I would also like to thank you for posting the link to YouTube. None of the news stations was playing the entire tape unedited. It gives a clearer picture of the incident. My bet is that the Trooper's supervisors will make sure that the EMT is charged, as he should be, with resisting and assault.
    PROUD, HONORED AND HUMBLED RECIPIENT OF THE PURPLE HYDRANT AWARD - 10/2007.

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    The news reports I've found say this either occured in Boley, or Paden. Having driven that highway many times, they were somewhere on the 10 miles between these two wide spots in the road. What I don't understand:

    1.At the end of the video, it appears they let the EMT get in the bus, and it prepares to drive off.

    2.The trooper who made the call to pull the bus over, called in for more units.

    3.I don't know what the trooper was going to help the county out for, but apparently it couldn't have been that bad, that he was able to finish that up, then return, find the same bus, and pull it over.

    Matt

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    George, sorry, there is NO defending this. At all.
    You have not seen me defend the Troopers at all, have you? My posts have clearly stated my position.
    PROUD, HONORED AND HUMBLED RECIPIENT OF THE PURPLE HYDRANT AWARD - 10/2007.

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    Sometimes the best way to understand a criminal statute is to read the model jury charge for the offense. Basically, the charge is explained in every day language and is broken down into the elements the state needs to prove.

    The OK model jury charge is found at:

    http://www.oscn.net/applications/osc...p?CiteID=81378

    This one quote is interesting (from Ajeani vs. State of Oklahoma):

    We hold that an arrest for a misdemeanor, without a warrant, where the arresting officer has probable cause, based on information coming to his senses or his personal observation at the time, to believe that a misdemeanor or other public offense is being committed in his presence by the arrestee, is not unlawful, even though arrestee is subsequently found innocent of the charges.



    The officer, in a marked unit in uniform, is making an arrest for a misdemeanor. The arrest is known as an "on view" arrest. The PC for an on view arrest is the personal observations of the officer or the knowledge and belief that comes from the scene. There is little doubt that this arrest would be found to be lawful.
    PROUD, HONORED AND HUMBLED RECIPIENT OF THE PURPLE HYDRANT AWARD - 10/2007.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI View Post
    When someone tells me that they "worked in LE" instead telling me they are a cop, I know that they are either a security guard ir a dispatcher. So spare me. How do the other "males" in your family feel about calling police officers "...badge totting gun bunny with a too high opinion of himself and an over inflated sense of authority...?". That is the sign of an anti-cop maggot.
    Probably don't care one way or another, it wouldn't be the first time or the last time I've said something like that. I'm not one to worry about other peoples opinions or feelings.
    If you think that I always defend cops, I would direct you to the recent thread re: the CHP kicking a surrendered suspect into unconsciousness and the threads regarding police officers dressing as FF to execute search warrants. In both of those threads, I emphatically stated that LE was wrong.

    In fact, I will say that, in this case, the Troopers were wrong in one instance. Once you place someone under arrest, you NEVER "un-arrest" them. Especially when I had to put my hands on you and you put your hands on me. That is a sure-fire way to a lawsuit. If you utter the words "under arrest" and you take steps to deprive that person of his liberty, that person will only be let free by a judge or on bail. Furthermore, if you put your hands on me, you are going to jail. Period.

    I would also like to thank you for posting the link to YouTube. None of the news stations was playing the entire tape unedited. It gives a clearer picture of the incident. My bet is that the Trooper's supervisors will make sure that the EMT is charged, as he should be, with resisting and assault.
    My bet is that the EMT sues the **** out of the trooper and the state patrol, and wins. Better than even odds that the "trooper" looses his job over this.

    By the way love the little dig;
    [QUOTE=GeorgeWendtCFI;1066062]That is the sign of an anti-cop maggot.[QUOTE/]
    Is that the best you got. Your personal insult are typically better than maggot, come on you can do better. I think your blood sugar must be getting low, have a doughnut.

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    The bottom line is - the situation could have been better handled after the patient was taken to the Emergency room. I have no doubt there were mistakes on both sides.

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    [QUOTE=jlcooke3;1066072]My bet is that the EMT sues the **** out of the trooper and the state patrol, and wins. Better than even odds that the "trooper" looses his job over this.

    By the way love the little dig;
    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI View Post
    That is the sign of an anti-cop maggot.[QUOTE/]
    Is that the best you got. Your personal insult are typically better than maggot, come on you can do better. I think your blood sugar must be getting low, have a doughnut.
    I guess I was right about the security guard/dispatcher thing, huh? The mall is a tough beat.
    PROUD, HONORED AND HUMBLED RECIPIENT OF THE PURPLE HYDRANT AWARD - 10/2007.

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    [QUOTE=GeorgeWendtCFI;1066084]
    Quote Originally Posted by jlcooke3 View Post
    My bet is that the EMT sues the **** out of the trooper and the state patrol, and wins. Better than even odds that the "trooper" looses his job over this.

    By the way love the little dig;


    I guess I was right about the security guard/dispatcher thing, huh? The mall is a tough beat.
    Nope, dispatch. Was gonna be a cop but I had higher aspirations and intelligence. I passed the firefighter's test, what's your excuse for being a cop?

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    While I don't pretend to know the law in Oklahoma, the above is not always true.

    In New Hampshire, an unlawful arrest is assault, and may be (lawfully) resisted, including with force up to and including deadly force.
    Can you show me a cite for this? How does one demonstrate an unlawful arrest? I rarely arrested someone who believed the arrest is lawful. I think there may be more to it than you may think.

    In general, the side of the road is a lousy place to hold these sorts of debates. This should have been dealt with through the respective chains of command.
    If it was a jurisdictional dispute or procedural disagreement (as happened in NJ a while back) I would agree. But there is no time to debate an arrest.
    PROUD, HONORED AND HUMBLED RECIPIENT OF THE PURPLE HYDRANT AWARD - 10/2007.

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    Here's an update on this story

    Davis continues to record as first, one trooper can be seen talking to one of the paramedics. A couple of minutes later, another trooper is seen confronting another paramedic and attempting to arrest him. The paramedic can be seen shoving the trooper at which time the scuffle breaks out.

    Maurice White, Jr. is the critical care paramedic seen in the video. In a statement, White says the trooper was upset because the ambulance driver didn't yield when the trooper approached from behind. White says the ambulance driver, Paul Franks, didn't see the trooper.

    The trooper pulled Franks over and was going to write a citation for failure to yield, but White says he tried to tell them they were on an emergency call and needed to take the patient to the hospital and that's when the trooper attempted to arrest White for obstructing an officer.

    A brief struggle followed, at which point the trooper grabbed White by the throat. Davis' cell phone captured this incident on video. White says the trooper later told him they could continue on to the hospital, but that he would be under arrest once they got there. White was never arrested, but says troopers told him he should be prepared to turn himself in if a warrant was issued.

    This link is to the EMT's report.
    http://static.ktul.com/documents/emtstatement_0509.pdf

    Here is the Ambulance drivers report.
    http://static.ktul.com/documents/fra...ement_0509.pdf

    I would like to see the troopers report on this, but at this point, I will side with the EMT's.

    Matt
    Last edited by GhostRider73; 05-27-2009 at 07:17 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GhostRider73 View Post
    This link is to the EMT's report.
    http://static.ktul.com/documents/emtstatement_0509.pdf

    Here is the Abulance drivers report.
    http://static.ktul.com/documents/fra...ement_0509.pdf

    I would like to see the troopers report on this, but at this point, I will side with the EMT's.

    Matt
    I too would love to read the troopers reports. As of reading the two EMT's reports I'd side with the EMT's. I wouldn't be surprised if the family of the patient sued the police either. However, I will withhold final judgment until I can see more.

    If anyone can post the police report, that would be great.
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI View Post
    You are dead wrong. Watch the video again.

    This was not a fight. This was the medic resisting arrest. The trooper very clearly tells the medic "You are under arrest", and begins to take him into custody. At that point, the medic resists and assaults the arresting officer.

    Once a citizen is placed under arrest, they are legally required to submit to the arrest. They are not permitted to resist or physically assault the officer. The question of whether the arrest is lawful will be dealt with later. The question of guilt will be dealt with later. That medic had a legal responsibility to submit to the arrest.

    We have zero idea what occurred prior to the tape rolling. Too friggin' bad that the medic got held by the neck. Do not resist arrest.
    Funny how they never arrest him. I'm not one to cry the race card. Why did the white driver not get a ticket, and the black medic almost gets arrested? I find it strange they are going to take the person who isn't even driving to jail. Read the statements.

    I'm glad you stand up for the police. So many people don't, but this is not the way REAL cops act.
    FF/Paramedic

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    But there is no time to debate an arrest.
    So it is acceptable to arrest an EMT while on the scene, rendering aid to a patient?
    My posts reflect my views and opinions, not the organization I work for or my IAFF local. Some of which they may not agree. I.A.C.O.J. member
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