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    Default The cost of fire apparatus...

    I'm sure we all know that the cost of custom-chassis fire apparatus has spiked considerably in the last couple of years. As an example, we purchased a Sutphen 95-foot tower with a 1500 gpm pump in 2007 for $763K. What does a similar tower cost now? What have you bought, and what did it cost?
    Last edited by fyreline; 05-29-2009 at 02:36 PM.
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    Default Information about fire apparatus inflation

    I've written several articles drawn from our files about the bite of inflation on department budgets. I've linked them here:

    http://www.firefinanceguy.com/2008/0...n-they-go.html

    http://www.firefinanceguy.com/2009/0...n-bite-of.html

    http://www.firefinanceguy.com/2009/0...-ready-to.html

    http://www.firefinanceguy.com/2008/1...t-problem.html

    I hope this information helps. Generally, my clients have seen price inflation of about 6% per year over the past few years - not including regulatory spikes from EPA and NFPA.

    For the $763,000 truck, that means it would cost about $857,000 just 2 years later, not including EPA engine and 2009 NFPA requirements.

    It's kind of scary out there.

    John R. Hill

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    Quote Originally Posted by fyreline View Post
    I'm sure we all know that the cost of custom-chassis fire apparatus has spiked considerably in the last couple of years. As an example, we purchased a Sutphen 95-foot tower with a 1500 gpm pump in 2007 for $763K. What does a similar tower cost now? What have you bought, and what did it cost?
    Last year we bought an E-One 2500 gallon pumper/tanker. It is essentially a first due engine with a 2500 gallon water tank. We have the pump-body setup just like our other two engines. It has a Typhoon-Medium cab, 10kw Onan genset, NightScan Chief, brow lights, extended front bumper w/ jump line, around the pump foam system w/30 gallon cell, 1500 GPM Hale QMAX, electric drop tank rack with 3000 gallon drop tank, etc.

    With every piece of equipment to get full ISO credit (every MSA SCBA, piece of hose, hand tool, MSA TIC, nozzle, ladder, etc) ready to go to a call the second it rolled into our jurisdiction was $496,499. The cost of the equipment was around $63k, so the truck itself was probably around $434k. We used Task Force Tips for every piece of loose equipment that we could and it saved a tremendous amount of money on equipment. If anybody lives in the Southeast and receives mail from Sunbelt Fire, there was a Task Force Tips advertisement featuring this truck and the fact that we speced it with TFT equipment.

    Anyway, here is a link to the truck: http://www.e-one.com/news/new-delive...ies.htm?id=650
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    In 07 we took delivery of an E-One engine with rescue style compartments includidn "coffin" compartments, 1500 gpm, 500 gal, 2 preconnect Holmatro reels, transverese "locker compartment" ahead of the pump, fully equiped. It came in at $550K
    Link to the engine : http://www.mvfd5.com/rescue_engine_5-1.php

    We currently have being build an E-One 100 ft. tiller. E-One totaly redesigned it for us to allow for 200+ ft of ladders in the tunnel and higer compartments. Fully equiped it's price take was a bit over $1.2 Million.

    Funny thing... we were looking through some old files at the station and found the letter for the municipality written in 1973 that "officialy" gave us approval to spend $137K on a new American LaFrance Snorkel and the letter of approval for our current ladder, an 89 E-One 135' ladder for the price of $425K.
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    Thanks for the replies - keep 'em coming! I think it's helpful for us to have a thread here to talk price. Just keep in mind that every rig is different, and yes, we are more than likely comparing apples and oranges. The reality is that some variety of apple or orange is what we're going to buy, so let's stroll around the Farmer's Market and see what prices are like. I would like to see some prices on comparable mid-mount or rear-mount towers purchased recently. I've seen many of these "reported" to have cost over a million dollars, which I can easily believe. We're not running a contest here to see who spent the most, just trying to share some real-world "ballpark figures" so we can make informed decisions. let's learn something. You can help.
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    Talking

    2008 f-550 chassis with 250 gpm 80 cfm cafs 300 gal tank brush truck fully equipped 130 k

    2009 PL custom ALS ambulance ,E-450, big box, well equipped , 147 k.

    2003 heavy rescue 30 foot with command module, under 300k equipped.
    built by local vendor, priced by the big builders at 450k.

    We are writing specs for a new tanker right now to go out to bid .

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    Quote Originally Posted by islandfire03 View Post
    2003 heavy rescue 30 foot with command module, under 300k equipped.built by local vendor, priced by the big builders at 450k.
    What kind of drugs are you on? I want some!
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    if we are going to talk price, lets talk size too. These pieces are getting expensive and getting giant. I've seen firehouses that aren't even that old, where the apparatus is a tight fit and these firehouses were built during the time of motorized apparatus. everything is getting big big big

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    Smile Apparatus

    http://www.customfire.com/details.php?id=65

    We took delivery of the rescue 4 years ago. The price then was approximately $297,000.




    http://www.customfire.com/details.php?id=53

    $165,000 2 years ago for the tanker/tender.

    I can't find a photo of the engine we took delivery of shortly before that. Price tag on the engine was $395,000. Here's some of the specs:

    Spartan Metro Star chassis with seating for 5
    1750 gmp pump with enclosed topmount controls
    all LED Lighting
    Stainless body
    10k generator
    light tower
    remote control deluge gun
    enclosed ladder rack with storage for pike poles
    Foam Pro 20 gallon cell
    750 gallon poly tank
    on spot chains
    Federal Q
    2 portable 750k lights mounted on rear corners
    dual electric cord reels with rewind (one on each side of apparatus)
    traverse compartment for backboard storage
    Last edited by mnfirecapt09; 05-30-2009 at 04:59 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FWDbuff View Post
    What kind of drugs are you on? I want some!
    I'll have to dig up a photo or a few and e-mail them to you buff. We got the truck custom built to OUR specs for about 225k , the rest was equipment. The two big boys that bid on it were 135-150k more plus the equipment.

    We had a visit from some feds to inspect our previous grant and they were very impressed with what we managed to do for so little $$$$.

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    A thirty foot HEAVY RESCUE with a command module, equipped, for under 300K? You can't buy the equipment to stock a thirty foot heavy rescue for 300K. I think your definition of a "Heavy Rescue" (and the equipment carried) and mine are different.
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    Chief, two Virginia departments recently took delivery of rear mount tower ladders built by Pierce. One is a Sky-Arm with pump, tank, and CAFS to every discharge including both ladder pipes, and the price was about $1.35M.

    The other is a more traditional RM TL with tank and pump, and it's cost was about $900K.

    Our department's last RM TL purchase (about 3 years) ago was $880,000. It's a dry Pierce Dash. We're getting ready to order another one in a few months, we'll see how the price tag is presented to us.
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    Again, more good and useful information. While we are all aware of the added expense that the new EPA regulations have added to the cost of most new fire apparatus, and also of the typical 3% or more price increase per year, it seems that the overall cost of large custom fire apparatus has taken a pretty severe spike over the last year.
    "SYRACUSE - An ISO Class One Fire Department"

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    Prices have risen tremendously based on the "rising cost" steel. Now that costs have moderated and even gone done some are we going to see a drop in prices. I doubt it. We are receiving a Pierce Custom Contender tomorrow;
    365hp Cummins
    1250gpm/720water/30 foam
    Husky foam system
    6kw hydrualic generator
    low hosebed desigm
    hydrualic ladder rack
    Truck was 307,000 with equipment 399,812 (400,000 budget)

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    We have a Sutphen SPH-100 on the floor their floor right now. 1500 gpm pump, 15kw hyd. generator, more than the min. NFPA ground ladders, 10 position intercom/headset system, no watertank, and a boat load of equipment including SCBA, Thermal camera, all hose, nozzles, and appliances, etc. for approximatley $1.1 mil.
    Purchased a Sutphen 100' in 1997 for approx. $630,000.

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    Anybody know what the new Seagrave pumpers FDNY is getting are costing, on a per unit basis? I understand that with an order of 70 or so, the price tag is going to be a lot different than it would be for a department that purchases each piece on an individual basis, but I'd be interested to know regardless.
    Last edited by tms122; 06-02-2009 at 04:59 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by islandfire03 View Post
    ....

    2003 heavy rescue 30 foot with command module, under 300k equipped.
    built by local vendor, priced by the big builders at 450k... .
    Receive multiple similar bids from profession builders and one bid from Joe Bagodonuts, who has never built a fire apparatus, that is 33+% lower? Certainly would create some questoins for me. And a bargain deal wouldn't be the 1st thing that comes to mind.

    Each supplier has: price = material + labor + profit. The small guy is going to pay MORE for materials/supplies.

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    2009 Arrow XT 1500/500 8 man cab low hose bed LED lights-435k
    2009 Seagrave MII same as above-500k

    we went with Pierce

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    7 with a Pierce wagon? Wouldn't have thought it would happen....

    What's going to happen to 72? Become the spare/reserve?
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    Quote Originally Posted by neiowa View Post
    Receive multiple similar bids from profession builders and one bid from Joe Bagodonuts, who has never built a fire apparatus, that is 33+% lower? Certainly would create some questoins for me. And a bargain deal wouldn't be the 1st thing that comes to mind.

    Each supplier has: price = material + labor + profit. The small guy is going to pay MORE for materials/supplies.
    Never said it was joe bagodonuts!
    This company had built over a hundred trucks that met the needs of rural departments in our area.
    Same compamy built us a 1000/1000 CAFS pumper in 2000 for 235k and the quality and engineering are superb. The truck has been problem free and gets the job done for us every time.
    Just because a regional builder is small doesnt mean they don't produce a top quality truck for a reasonable price. Add in the fact that they will build what the customer wants & how they want it and it's a win win situation for the customer ,US.

    If you want to pay too much for a truck that the big box builder wants to build go ahead and spend your hard fought dollars foolishly. We don't have the spare funds laying around to throw away for a nameplate.

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    What is the builders name? that was quite a price difference, assuming the specs were the same.
    Any pics of this rig?

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    Quote Originally Posted by islandfire03 View Post
    Never said it was joe bagodonuts!
    This company had built over a hundred trucks that met the needs of rural departments in our area.
    Same compamy built us a 1000/1000 CAFS pumper in 2000 for 235k and the quality and engineering are superb. The truck has been problem free and gets the job done for us every time.
    Just because a regional builder is small doesnt mean they don't produce a top quality truck for a reasonable price. Add in the fact that they will build what the customer wants & how they want it and it's a win win situation for the customer ,US.

    If you want to pay too much for a truck that the big box builder wants to build go ahead and spend your hard fought dollars foolishly. We don't have the spare funds laying around to throw away for a nameplate.
    Sorry, I dont care WHO is building it. There is no way someone is going to build a thirty foot heavy rescue with a command module for under 300K. What I think here is there is a difference in your definition of a "Heavy Rescue" and my definition. My definition is the NFPA definition, and carrying enough equipment that the weight demands a tandem rear axle. Equipment carried includes everything from a socket set to train jacks, bottle jacks, hydraulic jacks, trench jacks and shoring, generators, dewatering equipment, pavement breakers, concrete saws, metal saws, every extrication tool you can think of, SCUBA/Dive gear, etc etc etc....

    THIS is a heavy rescue......
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    Talking might not meet big city specs but it works for us

    We don't have pavement breakers or trench rescue gear or the other shoring for skyscraper collapse rescue, But our tallest building is 4 stories and we only have 1 of them.
    We do have a 35kw hyd genset 350 ft electric reel 100 ft hydraulic reel 28 foot 4 head pneumatic light tower ,
    6 cold water/ice rescue suits and flotation gear ,life ring,10 rope bags from 50ft up to 350 ft, for ocean rescue,
    extrication cribbing & tools ,chain saws, rotary saws, saws-alls,skill saws, blocking & cribbing. floating stokes litter folding closet ladder, little giant ladder, 8 bottle 6000 psi cascade system with 3 chamber containment fill station capable of both scuba & scba filling.
    full assortment of hand and electric tools, 2 portable honda fire pumps and a big electric dewatering pump,
    full compliment of BLS & ALS equipment for large MCI's including cardiac AED/ monitor als bags ,backboards,keds,vac splints and just about all the equipment we carry on our type III als ambulance with the exception of the strecher.
    In the command module there is a radio bank , 6 bay charger with spare radios, full file drawer of documentation, ie map books ,preplans ,utility maps, niosh & oshsa manuals etc.
    It also has a 16 foot electric awning to provide coverage for the cascade operator and the emt's that run rehab station when you come to get a bottle change. there is a 16 bottle spare rack plus another 6 in wheel well holder tubes. There are foldup lawn chairs for rehab and even a folding handtruck for toting tools or the 20 full size cones it carries.
    Oh, almost forgot the microwave & coffee maker in the command cab which also has seating for 4 FF's with airpacks and lanterns for each.full sets of tools and irons are kept in a compartment. A 9000 lb winch is stored in the front bumper compartment with mounts on all 4 sides of the truck. The cab seats driver & officer with behind the seats storage instead of a bunk.
    I'm sure i've forgotton to list some equipment that stowed away but you get the idea.
    We did leave out a fridge as we ran out of compartment space and there's no Q's or other parade crap on it.

    In rural America this truck qualifies as a heavy rescue.
    Oh we don't have train jacks either ,but the nearest railroad is 20 miles away back up on the mainland.
    Last edited by islandfire03; 06-03-2009 at 03:49 AM. Reason: added comments

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    Quote Originally Posted by islandfire03 View Post
    We don't have pavement breakers or trench rescue gear or the other shoring for skyscraper collapse rescue, But our tallest building is 4 stories and we only have 1 of them.
    We do have a 35kw hyd genset 350 ft electric reel 100 ft hydraulic reel 28 foot 4 head pneumatic light tower ,
    6 cold water/ice rescue suits and flotation gear ,life ring,10 rope bags from 50ft up to 350 ft, for ocean rescue,
    extrication cribbing & tools ,chain saws, rotary saws, saws-alls,skill saws, blocking & cribbing. floating stokes litter folding closet ladder, little giant ladder, 8 bottle 6000 psi cascade system with 3 chamber containment fill station capable of both scuba & scba filling.
    full assortment of hand and electric tools, 2 portable honda fire pumps and a big electric dewatering pump,
    full compliment of BLS & ALS equipment for large MCI's including cardiac AED/ monitor als bags ,backboards,keds,vac splints and just about all the equipment we carry on our type III als ambulance with the exception of the strecher.
    In the command module there is a radio bank , 6 bay charger with spare radios, full file drawer of documentation, ie map books ,preplans ,utility maps, niosh & oshsa manuals etc.
    It also has a 16 foot electric awning to provide coverage for the cascade operator and the emt's that run rehab station when you come to get a bottle change. there is a 16 bottle spare rack plus another 6 in wheel well holder tubes. There are foldup lawn chairs for rehab and even a folding handtruck for toting tools or the 20 full size cones it carries.
    Oh, almost forgot the microwave & coffee maker in the command cab which also has seating for 4 FF's with airpacks and lanterns for each.full sets of tools and irons are kept in a compartment. A 9000 lb winch is stored in the front bumper compartment with mounts on all 4 sides of the truck. The cab seats driver & officer with behind the seats storage instead of a bunk.
    I'm sure i've forgotton to list some equipment that stowed away but you get the idea.
    We did leave out a fridge as we ran out of compartment space and there's no Q's or other parade crap on it.

    In rural America this truck qualifies as a heavy rescue.
    Oh we don't have train jacks either ,but the nearest railroad is 20 miles away back up on the mainland.
    And is all this on a tandem rear axle or a single? If it's a single, if it's not overweight, I bet it's damn near close! And you still haven't given us the name of the Mfr. And I still don't believe you got all that for under 300K.
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    Hello? This is MAINE not PeeA. Not a huge need for Train jacks around here.If you set your compartments right you can get that all on a single and still be within the State limits for axle weight. Mebbe you should make a journey North to the Piney woods,I'm QUITE sure we could introduce you to some novel pieces built to serve their communities unique needs. Like Reel trucks and a few others seldom seen in Pa.Ever been to the Islands? You be hard pressed to get around with the Behemouth you posted the picture of. NARROW roads,little bridges and narrow winding drives. T.C.

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