Debris found during pump testing

[MarkGramlich]

We just finished our annual pump testing. We had a problem with one of our trucks.

Setup -
Two lengths of 6 inch suction hose with a 6 inch strainer. The suction hose went directly into the steamer connection. We had three discharge lines going to a master stream. The truck is an E-One with a Hale pump.

It pulled prime great. But, we couldn't get adequate pressure. We couldn't the pressure up past about 50 psi. We checked the discharge lines - ok. We checked the suction hose - ok. We checked the strainer and the steamer strainer - ok. We were stumped. We removed the steamer strainer and back flushed from the tank. This is when the larger of the two pieces came out the steamer. After this we were able to bring it up to 150, 200 and 250 psi. Everything was going great till the 250 psi test. Our folks at the master stream heard a loud -crack-. The pitot tube showed a reduction in flow. We shut down and found a small piece of debris had got hung up on the stream straightener. Both pieces seem to be some sort of plastic. Here are some pictures of the two pieces.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/38937529@N05/3580869296/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/38937529@N05/3580872394/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/38937529@N05/3580062883/

Questions -
Does anyone know what this was and where it may have come from? It could not have come in thru the steamer. Our steamer connections have strainers. The larger piece could not have made it thru any of our tank fill connections. We are stumped. The only place that it seems likely to have come from is the 1250 gallon tank or pump. We certainly hope the pieces did not come from the pump. From the look of the two pieces, there may be more in the truck, pump or maybe ground up and flushed out.

[kjohn23]

Don't have answers but suggestions:
1.Check out the Hale website:http://www.haleproducts.com/Main/Content.aspx
2.Send Pictures to your pump service person and see what he thinks

[jeremy1213]

that's the inside inpler shaft cover what ever you do don't use the truck unitl you get a repair company out there

[MarkGramlich]

I talked to "Steve" at Hale. As soon as he saw the first picture, he said "That's the tank-to-pump check valve". It turns out Hale has a new part number for the part. That tells me that there was some need to change the original part. He said it's only 8 bolts to remove the tank-to-pump valve. And the tank-to-pump check valve sits right there on the pump body.

We need to get up inside the truck and decide if this is something we can tackle. Hales 8 bolts don't cover the other plumbing and access. At a minimum, we need to see if the remaining piece is still attached and remove it.

[Catch22]

I talked to "Steve" at Hale. As soon as he saw the first picture, he said "That's the tank-to-pump check valve". It turns out Hale has a new part number for the part. That tells me that there was some need to change the original part. He said it's only 8 bolts to remove the tank-to-pump valve. And the tank-to-pump check valve sits right there on the pump body.

We need to get up inside the truck and decide if this is something we can tackle. Hales 8 bolts don't cover the other plumbing and access. At a minimum, we need to see if the remaining piece is still attached and remove it.

I can't imagine any major reason why you wouldn't be able to handle it yourselves, especially if you have someone mechanical. The biggest problem is going to be getting to some of the bolts. You're probably going to get to attack some of them from underneath and some from above.

We just did a rebuild of the gear box (broke the shifting fork) and removed the lower part of the pump and replaced a bunch of components around the impellor shaft while we were at it, including replacing the packing. We did it all at our deputy chief's trucking company's shop.

[txgp17]

The Tank-to-Pump line is typically the easiest to work on, although it may be hard to reach.

The T2P line is the only line (intake & discharge) not subjected to high pressure, assuming the check valve operates properly. As a result, it's usually held in place with light duty clamps.

[kuh shise]

Mark: A lot of us old pump operators, mechanics and instructors on here would like to know what the final results of the repair are / were. How does this pump perform after the repairs are completed and what all was required for the repair.

Kuh Shise

[MarkGramlich]

We removed the steamer valve off the pump operator side. Then flushed water out the steamer. Nothing new came out. With the steamer valve off, we were able to see where the check valve sat. We were even able to reach up into the pump body to the check valve location. There was nothing there.

We ordered a new check valve from the folks at Fireline. We found out something about the old and new check valves. The old check valve was made out of some sort of plastic. It's almost like bakelite. I believe the new valve is made out of brass. When it arrives I'll post a picture of it.

It turns out we saw signs of the check valve failing about three weeks before the pumper test. We had a training burn three weeks prior. We had problems with two of the nozzles during the training burn. We found debris in both nozzles. But the debris was the size and shape of a wood chip. At the time, we thought exactly that. In hindsight, it seems more likely that was the first indication of the check valve failing.

We looked at replacing the check valve ourselves. It's doable. But there's not a lot of working room inside there. We've been inside to replace gauges and tighten fittings. There are only two people in our department that are both small enough and skilled enough to get the job done. Unfortunately, they are both very busy being self employed. Neither of them has the time. We'll probably end up taking to the truck to a repair shop. The closest one is about 90 minutes away.

[duhfirefighter]

This could have been something much worse.

[Tower9Truckie]

Same thing happened to us about a year & a half ago. Fortunately, it occurred during a "demo" car fire during a department open house and not at an actual structural fire with the crew inside. They would have had a limp line in their hands! It was the tank-to-pump check valve (Hale pump).

[GeorgiaEVT]

Mark, if you don't mind me asking, where are you located? I see you mentioned FireLine earlier and I know they are in GA. Are you somewhere down here too?

[Tower9Truckie]

How old is this pump? Ours happened October 2007 and I heard the have since been redesigned...maybe...