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  1. #1
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    Default Arsonist gets Death Penalty for murder of 5 Firefighters

    CNN) -- A California man convicted of the 2006 arson murders of five U.S. Forest Service firefighters was sentenced to death Friday.
    Raymond Lee Oyler was sentenced Friday to die for the arson murders of five firefighters.

    Raymond Lee Oyler, 38, of Beaumont was convicted in March of five counts of first-degree murder.

    The convictions included two special circumstances: that the murders were committed during an arson and that multiple murders were committed.

    Oyler also was convicted of 11 counts of arson and 10 counts of use of an incendiary device in those arsons.

    The imposition of the death penalty by a judge was a formality. A jury earlier recommended capital punishment for Oyler.

    Firefighters Mark Loutzenhiser, 44; Jess McLean, 27; Jason McKay, 27; and Daniel Hoover-Najera, 20, died October 26, 2006, during the Esperanza fire outside Los Angeles. Fueled by Santa Ana winds, the wildfire enveloped their engine.

    The fifth firefighter, Pablo Cerda, 23, died October 31, 2006, at Arrowhead Regional Medical Center, where he had been taken after suffering burns over 90 percent of his body.

    Days before being charged in Esperanza fire, Oyler had been arrested and charged with two counts of arson in a June 2006 fire in the Banning Pass area.

    The 41,173-acre Esperanza fire destroyed 34 homes and 20 outbuildings, mainly in the Twin Pines and Poppet Flats areas, which had been under mandatory evacuations.

    The firefighters died trying to protect a partially built house in Twin Pines, a rural mountain community.
    "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Benjamin Franklin


  2. #2
    Forum Member BKDRAFT's Avatar
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    Great news!

  3. #3
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    Kindly rot in hell Mr. Raymond Lee Oyler.

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    It will never hold up. This will be judged as excessive. After all, he did not intend to kill anyone. Giving people a death sentence for an accidental death certainly sets a dangerous precedent.

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    Don't bet your check on it. Where those fires were set would certainly lend itself to the intent to commit bodily harm.I'll bet the sentence stands. T.C.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    It will never hold up. This will be judged as excessive. After all, he did not intend to kill anyone. Giving people a death sentence for an accidental death certainly sets a dangerous precedent.
    I guess the "precedent set" by ruling the death penalty excessive for an arsonist who kills five people isn't "dangerous" in your mind.

    I mean, how much damage can a serial arsonist really do anyway, right?

    As usual, you seem to think you know more than everyone else including both the judge and the jury who actually heard the evidence as opposed to reading the news story.

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    Good riddance. Unfortanately they'll drag their feet for years before they administer this just punishment.
    FTM-PTB-RFB
    IACOJ

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    Not trying to be a gloomy gus but how long is this dork actually going to sit on death row now, ON THE TAXPAYERS' DIME, trying to appeal the decision?

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    Quote Originally Posted by jakesdad View Post
    I guess the "precedent set" by ruling the death penalty excessive for an arsonist who kills five people isn't "dangerous" in your mind.

    I mean, how much damage can a serial arsonist really do anyway, right?

    As usual, you seem to think you know more than everyone else including both the judge and the jury who actually heard the evidence as opposed to reading the news story.
    In my mind he is no different that the person who gets behind the wheel of a car and kills through some action of stupidity. Be it talking on the cell phone or drinking and driving.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    In my mind he is no different that the person who gets behind the wheel of a car and kills through some action of stupidity. Be it talking on the cell phone or drinking and driving.
    Deliberately setting a fire is NOT the same as talking on a cell phone! Nor is it the same as drinking and driving.

    Terrible analogies that have absolutely no relevance to what this man did, which is deliberately set more than one fire which resulted in tremendous damage and the death of fire firefighters.

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    Quote Originally Posted by firecat1 View Post
    Not trying to be a gloomy gus but how long is this dork actually going to sit on death row now, ON THE TAXPAYERS' DIME, trying to appeal the decision?
    Probably the same length of time EVERYONE sits on death row trying to appeal the decision.
    Last edited by jakesdad; 06-07-2009 at 06:45 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jakesdad View Post
    Deliberately setting a fire is NOT the same as talking on a cell phone! Nor is it the same as drinking and driving.

    Terrible analogies that have absolutely no relevance to what this man did, which is deliberately set more than one fire which resulted in tremendous damage and the death of fire firefighters.
    It is if you kill someone while doing it.

    Butt Hey, I have one you might understand. Person shoots a gun within the city limits and kills an innocent bystander. By this standard they should also get the death penalty.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    It is if you kill someone while doing it.

    Butt Hey, I have one you might understand. Person shoots a gun within the city limits and kills an innocent bystander. By this standard they should also get the death penalty.
    If there was a death penalty for idiotic posts.. you would have been dead 3,605 times over and counting...
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
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    May he rest in peace,no such luck. T.C.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    It is if you kill someone while doing it.

    Butt Hey, I have one you might understand. Person shoots a gun within the city limits and kills an innocent bystander. By this standard they should also get the death penalty.
    Actually, if you want to make a relevant analogy then lets say that "person shoots a gun" illegaly and more than one time and winds up killing 5 innocent bystanders.

    What would you suggest as just punishment? Probation? 5 Hail Mary's? Community service?

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    Quote Originally Posted by jakesdad View Post
    Actually, if you want to make a relevant analogy then lets say that "person shoots a gun" illegaly and more than one time and winds up killing 5 innocent bystanders.

    What would you suggest as just punishment? Probation? 5 Hail Mary's? Community service?
    Personally, I believe in an eye for eye. You kill, then you too should lose your life. However, our society takes a different view. We have different classes of murder and manslaughter. He was convicted over 5 counts of first degree murder.

    Murder: First Degree

    In most states, first-degree murder is defined as an unlawful killing that is both willful and premeditated, meaning that it was committed after planning or "lying in wait" for the victim.

    For example, Dan comes home to find his wife in bed with Victor. Three days later, Dan waits behind a tree near Victor's front door. When Victor comes out of the house, Dan shoots and kills him.

    Most states also adhere to a legal concept known as the "felony murder rule," under which a person commits first-degree murder if any death (even an accidental one) results from the commission of certain violent felonies -- usually arson, burglary, kidnapping, rape, and robbery.
    I'm guessing California falls into the second category. I'm not sure how it went in court. But this was apparently not his first arson. Given that one could easily argue that since no one had been killed previously then he had no expectation anyone would be killed this time.

    All I am saying is that it will take 20 years and will be overturned on appeal somewhere. Just the facts

    As for the example of shooting 5 times and killing 5 people, it happens far to often, especially in the big cities. Perhaps we should institute death penalties for these crimes as well. Then again, I think our entire society is soft on crime.
    Last edited by ScareCrow57; 06-07-2009 at 08:27 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    I'm guessing California falls into the second category. I'm not sure how it went in court. But this was apparently not his first arson. Given that one could easily argue that since no one had been killed previously then he had no expectation anyone would be killed this time.
    "How it went" in court was that the jury who DID hear the evidence found him guilty and recommended capitlal punishment.

    And the judge who also DID heard the evidence agreed and sentenced him to death.

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    Just a personal belief but I think serving life with no possibility of parole is a far more onerous sentence. THE SOB will have the next 40 or more years to live with what he's done, to never have the possibility to walk or breath free again. The needle is too fast and too easy for A**holes like these.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jakesdad View Post
    "How it went" in court was that the jury who DID hear the evidence found him guilty and recommended capitlal punishment.

    And the judge who also DID heard the evidence agreed and sentenced him to death.
    Just to be clear, that is how it went in California court. The U.S. courts may see it differently.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BryanLoader View Post
    Just a personal belief but I think serving life with no possibility of parole is a far more onerous sentence. THE SOB will have the next 40 or more years to live with what he's done, to never have the possibility to walk or breath free again. The needle is too fast and too easy for A**holes like these.
    Kind of funny, I used to be a die hard death penalty proponent. Given that it takes 20 years of appeals and such I think the life without parole is much better. Although as a prisoner of the state he gets free room and board, free medical, access to a free college education. He doesn't' have to worry where his next meal comes from or how to pay his bills either.

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