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  1. #1
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    Default FSC Grant questions for assistance.....

    Figured I would start this thread for those of us not using a grant writer. I know I'm going to have several questions so feel free to let em go and hopefully someone will have an answer for you.


  2. #2
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    I have a fire station that is 2 parts put together as 1. It was an old community school built back in the early 1920's that we renovated to a community room, lounge, meeting room, small kitchen, and undersized restrooms. In 1984 we built the apparatus room onto that school. Its a 5 bay station.

    We are thinking of trying to do a live in program for our local college.

    I am wanting to renovate this to make it to come up to code. But this will take a sprinkler system, alarm system, vehicle emissions system, decon area, showers, restrooms, living quarters, etc.

    My question is. The area of the old school we could add a second floor. Is adding a second floor doable or should i cramp our space and add this stuff to the back of the station. The second floor would keep the members away from the vehicle emissions the best.

  3. #3
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    Can do it just have to comply with ADA and put in an elevator to reach the second floor. Everything over 3000sq ft needs it.

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    ok....so the plan is to get a quote from a builder now on this.

    This being, constructing a second floor (consisting of meeting room, ada unisex bathroom, shower facilities, kitchen, lounge, 3 living quarters), install of an elevator, renovation of first floor to make a large hall and kitchen, renovation of apparatus room (consisting of back up generator, decon facilities), and to install sprinkler system and smoke/co detector system for the entire building.

    Am i missing anything that i should or could include to make it a higher priority or does this sound good?

  5. #5
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    Sounds like all the goods to me.

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    The "large hall" could be an issue in regard to funding. You are limited up to 600 square feet for training and are allowed a kitchen/dining area. Any thing above that will probably be percieved as space for public use which is not eligible.

    Just keep in mind that you will have to pick up the cost difference.

  7. #7
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    BC79er,

    I have a question about your earlier comment about the elevator requirements for a 2nd story. Where can I find more info about the 3000 sq ft requirement you mentioned? My upstairs area for living quarters is only 2800 sq ft. Thanks!

  8. #8
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    it's total building square feet, not the area to be accessed. Architects & engineers for your project should know all about that.

  9. #9
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    Look at NFPA 101 as this will address most building and fire codes. Does not include ADA requirements though

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    Why do we have to be "ADA" for the upstairs FIREFIGHTER LIVING QUARTERS ???

    If they can't climb stairs then they won't be a firefighter and they won't be going up there in the first place.

  11. #11
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    Before I agree completely and come off as insensitive I had a great-aunt with polio that I spent a good amount of my summers helping mom get her around to various places. So I've dealt secondhand with the difficulties of being wheelchair bound and how many places in the early 80s had no consideration that were supposed to be public access (malls, courthouses, etc).

    But I do agree completely that firefighter living quarters do not need to be ADA compliant for any reason. Since they are funded with taxpayer money, fed law says they have to be since it's a blanket law they passed to take care of everything. Have to change the law first, which like any other change will be fought even though it makes sense to amend it.

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    The ADA requirements are across the board anytime that you want to use the fed money for buidling. We have been working through them with the CDBG grant.

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    Most places it doesn't matter whose money it is, states and municipalities have adopted ADA for all non-private buildings. Basically any structure other than a single family dwelling has to be compliant.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BC79er View Post
    it's total building square feet, not the area to be accessed. Architects & engineers for your project should know all about that.

    This varies, if we put a second floor in it has to stay under 1000 sqft so we do not have to put in an elevator, but we will still need two ways of egress.

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    If you have a public building that is not ADA can they sue you? I mean I know they CAN sue you, but would they have a leg to stand on? (no pun intended)

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    FAQ is posted on the site now

  17. #17
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    Buildings older than the ADA were grandfathered of course, but that's where the renovation fun comes into play. I believe that if a renovation is done that costs more than 50% of the value of the structure then it will have to come to full ADA compliance, can't remember exactly what the line in the sand is. Hence the reason most of the cities in the north with old stations don't do anything with them because they are multi-story. They don't have the money to put into elevators and other such things. Or they have to deal with historical requirements also, and many times they're tougher than finding the money.

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    Smile Ibc

    The grant application also states that the building must be built in accordance with the current edition of the International Building Code as well as the Current editions of any relevent NFPA documents, 13, 70, 72,20 and 1500 to name a few. This may not be what is adopted in your area or even by the state. IBC would be the document (not always 101) that will be setting the requirements for the new and extensivly renovated buildings.

    Just a heads up.

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    Some useful links re the elevator question. The following is from the second linked document below, note exception 3 particularly:

    EXCEPTION 1: Elevators are not required in:

    (a) private facilities that are less than three stories or that have less than 3000 square feet per story unless the building is a shopping center, a shopping mall, or the professional office of a health care provider, or another type of facility as determined by the Attorney General; or

    (b) public facilities that are less than three stories and that are not open to the general public if the story above or below the accessible ground floor houses no more than five persons and is less than 500 square feet. Examples may include, but are not limited to, drawbridge towers and boat traffic towers, lock and dam control stations, and train dispatching towers.

    The elevator exemptions set forth in paragraphs (a) and (b) do not obviate or limit in any way the obligation to comply with the other accessibility requirements established in section 4.1.3. For example, floors above or below the accessible ground floor must meet the requirements of this section except for elevator service. If toilet or bathing facilities are provided on a level not served by an elevator, then toilet or bathing facilities must be provided on the accessible ground floor. In new construction, if a building or facility is eligible for exemption but a passenger elevator is nonetheless planned, that elevator shall meet the requirements of 4.10 and shall serve each level in the building. A passenger elevator that provides service from a garage to only one level of a building or facility is not required to serve other levels.

    EXCEPTION 2: Elevator pits, elevator penthouses, mechanical rooms, piping or equipment catwalks are exempted from this requirement.

    EXCEPTION 3: Accessible ramps complying with 4.8 may be used in lieu of an elevator.


    http://www.buildings.com/Magazine/Ar...7/Default.aspx

    http://www.access-board.gov/adaag/html/adaag.htm

  20. #20
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    So pretty much since fire stations are public facilities no matter who owns them and the second stories would be more than 500 sq ft they will be required on all multi-story station projects.

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