1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    As my primary job in the department is to prevent fires, as the department's public educator, going to a fire means I have failed in my primary role.

    The fact is anytime we as a service go to a fire, we have failed to educate and we have failed in our primary role - prevention.

    And besides, I'm getting too damn old for this crap.
    Age has nothing to do with it in your case. Fortitude, courage, a will to perform, actually wanting to do the job, knowing there will be times that you will risk your life in an attempt to rescue those you have sworn to serve are all the things you either lost or more likely never had. You have no feel for the job, no passion...to you it is nothing more than a paycheck that happens to have the name of the fire dpeartment at the top. I actually feel sorry for you. It must be such a hollow existence.

  2. #77
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    No. I still love the fire service, but ........

    A fire means someone is losing something.

    A vehicle. A home. Contents in a shed.

    Honestly, how can you, or anyone say, that they "enjoy" going to a fire.

    It would be the best job in the world if we never rolled to another fire.

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    So for 30 years I did the job as a volunteer for .. the paycheck?

    Stick to firefighting as more than likely you make a much better firefighter than a psychologist.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    So waht type of behavior is this george?

    Saying that our lives are worth more than the civilians?

    Is that such a horrible thing?

    Saying the we weight the chances of success v. the chances of failure, and that if the chances of failure greatly outweigh our chances of sucess, we don't risk our lives?

    At what point did I commit to dying for the life of a civilian?

    We have the right to make that decsion at every call. And our family expects us to make that decsion.
    A behavior known as cowardice.

    Your attitude is far better suited for a career at WalMart.
    PROUD, HONORED AND HUMBLED RECIPIENT OF THE PURPLE HYDRANT AWARD - 10/2007.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    No. I still love the fire service, but ........

    A fire means someone is losing something.

    A vehicle. A home. Contents in a shed.

    Honestly, how can you, or anyone say, that they "enjoy" going to a fire.

    It would be the best job in the world if we never rolled to another fire.
    The same way a surgeon can enjoy removing a cancerous tumor from a patient. Using his education, training experience and skills for good. Sometimes that takes unselfish courage. Not recklessness, but courage.

    I understand that you do not understand that word.
    PROUD, HONORED AND HUMBLED RECIPIENT OF THE PURPLE HYDRANT AWARD - 10/2007.

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    And the saga continues
    Attached Images Attached Images  

  7. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by RFD21C View Post

    Hello my name is LaFireEducator and i do NOT like going to fire!
    Remember. Hermey didn't like to make toys either. Maybe he could be the Chief of the Island of Misfit Toys FD?

    It would be all volunteer, of course.
    PROUD, HONORED AND HUMBLED RECIPIENT OF THE PURPLE HYDRANT AWARD - 10/2007.

  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    As my primary job in the department is to prevent fires, as the department's public educator, going to a fire means I have failed in my primary role.

    The fact is anytime we as a service go to a fire, we have failed to educate and we have failed in our primary role - prevention.
    This is complete and utter BS!!!!!!!! The fact is, no matter how well we educate the public on fire safety and preventing fires, fires WILL happen that are not an indication of fire prevention failure.

    Are arson fires the result of education and prevention failures? What about houses hit by lightning and catching fire? What about an appliance that has an unknown defect and shorts out and starts a fire?

    Using your logic, a student gets bad grades because the teachers failed to educate them.

    And besides, I'm getting too damn old for this crap.
    Then quit and find a less physically demanding job.

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    This is complete and utter BS!!!!!!!!
    No doubt. I am sick to death of hearing that crap line. I'd like to find the overeducated idiot that dreamed that jewel up and kick him square in the sack.

  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    So waht type of behavior is this george?

    Saying that our lives are worth more than the civilians?

    Is that such a horrible thing?
    Yes...yes, it is you unbelievable douchbag.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    The fact is anytime we as a service go to a fire, we have failed to educate and we have failed in our primary role - prevention.
    If thats the way you feel, immediately following your next working structure fire, I demand your resignation.
    "Loyalty Above all Else. Except Honor."

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    This is complete and utter BS!!!!!!!! The fact is, no matter how well we educate the public on fire safety and preventing fires, fires WILL happen that are not an indication of fire prevention failure.

    Are arson fires the result of education and prevention failures? What about houses hit by lightning and catching fire? What about an appliance that has an unknown defect and shorts out and starts a fire?

    Using your logic, a student gets bad grades because the teachers failed to educate them.



    True, to an extent.

    But as a department did we train the public to mitigate them? If there were deaths or injuries because they didn't have smoke detectors to provide warning ..... we failed. If there were deaths or injuries because they didn't know how to evacuate ... we failed.

    If the building didn't have an alarm system because we couldn't get a city mandate requiring one .. we failed. Same if the building was newer didn't have a sprinkler system because we didn't push hard enough for a sprinkler requirement in anything beyond a SF residence .. we failed.

    One could easily argue that if we didn't have a juvenile firesetters program which may have caught the arsonist as a youth, which could have prevented him continuing to start fires .... we failed.

    If thats the way you feel, immediately following your next working structure fire, I demand your resignation.

    Structure fires have gone down every year since I have taken over the program. From 26 to 16 in 4 years, so I'm making progress. On track for less than that this year with a little bit of luck.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post

    If thats the way you feel, immediately following your next working structure fire, I demand your resignation.

    Structure fires have gone down every year since I have taken over the program. From 26 to 16 in 4 years, so I'm making progress. On track for less than that this year with a little bit of luck.
    200 fires or 2 fires, resign!
    "Loyalty Above all Else. Except Honor."

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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    This is complete and utter BS!!!!!!!! The fact is, no matter how well we educate the public on fire safety and preventing fires, fires WILL happen that are not an indication of fire prevention failure.

    Are arson fires the result of education and prevention failures? What about houses hit by lightning and catching fire? What about an appliance that has an unknown defect and shorts out and starts a fire?

    Using your logic, a student gets bad grades because the teachers failed to educate them.



    True, to an extent.

    But as a department did we train the public to mitigate them?
    Mitigating a fire incident ISN'T the public's responsibility, it's OURS!

    My department provides fire extinguisher training, however it's simply not something we can force on the entire community. Additionally, when providing this education, the emphasis is on evacuation and notification (calling 911) in the event of a fire, NOT suppression. The lay person simply doesn't understand how little fire the average fire extinguisher will put out in the hands of a novice and it can be very dangerous for them to attempt to fight that fire. We've had numerous major fires in our city that were the result of the occupants attempting to fight the fire and NOT immediately calling 911. In pretty much every case, we'd have stopped the fire at a R&C job if they had called immediately.

    If there were deaths or injuries because they didn't have smoke detectors to provide warning ..... we failed.

    If there were deaths or injuries because they didn't know how to evacuate ... we failed.
    Have we? All we can really do is provide the message. If our audience doesn't head it, what are we to do? Are you saying that we have to physically buy and install smoke detectors in private dwellings? Are we supposed to push our way into people's homes and force feed this training to them?

    Again, if a student is getting bad grades, is it because the teacher failed?

    Isn't there a point at which the citizens have to take responsibility for themselves?

    If the building didn't have an alarm system because we couldn't get a city mandate requiring one .. we failed.

    Same if the building was newer didn't have a sprinkler system because we didn't push hard enough for a sprinkler requirement in anything beyond a SF residence .. we failed.
    Have we? Maybe in the sense that we weren't successful, but did we fail or just lose that battle? Besides, alarm systems and sprinklers aren't about preventing fires.

    One could easily argue that if we didn't have a juvenile firesetters program which may have caught the arsonist as a youth, which could have prevented him continuing to start fires .... we failed.
    Have we? Not all arsonists started setting fires as youths. Many arsons aren't about the "thrill" of setting the fire, but rather for criminal purposes. Do you really think we can prevent an "arson for profit" fire in somebody's failed business with a juvenile fire setters program?

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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    If there were deaths or injuries because they didn't have smoke detectors to provide warning ..... we failed.

    No, it means someone still chose not to have them. It means they still chose to pull the battery out to put in the HDTV remote, because the game was more of a priority than safety was.

    If there were deaths or injuries because they didn't know how to evacuate ... we failed. No, it may simply mean they got disoriented (gee never happens to our brothers who are highly trained so it shouldn't happen to the lay person)

    If the building didn't have an alarm system because we couldn't get a city mandate requiring one .. we failed. Same if the building was newer didn't have a sprinkler system because we didn't push hard enough for a sprinkler requirement in anything beyond a SF residence .. we failed.NO, it means you lost the political battle and have to regroup and fight again. A setback does not necessarily equate failure.

    One could easily argue that if we didn't have a juvenile firesetters program which may have caught the arsonist as a youth, which could have prevented him continuing to start fires .... we failed.
    You use the word "may" have caught and "could have" prevented. You don't know that you would have stopped him even if he had entered the program. Are you capable of knowing everything about everyone, and knowing every choice they'll make in life?

    Structure fires have gone down every year since I have taken over the program. From 26 to 16 in 4 years, so I'm making progress. On track for less than that this year with a little bit of luck.So even you admit that luck is involved.
    Public education is just that, education. It's giving information to as many people as you can so they can make informed decisions on their own. But you still have to let them go and make their own choices. My mechanic told me to get my transfer case fixed due to a small problem. I chose not to. I paid 3 times the original quote because I tripled the problem. Did he fail? Not at all. I made an informed decision to take a gamble, and I lost. I failed not him.

    I'd say fire PREVENTION is the wrong term. It indicates that fire is preventable. It is not. Rather, fire AWARNESS AND REDUCTION program/division might be better. We can make people aware, and we can reduce the number of fires, or the severity of fires. But we can't prevent them.

    You stated that our primary role is prevention. Wrong. Our primary role is to get people out of the bad situation they are in, whether through their own fault, or simply an accidental situation. If we can reduce the number of bad things that happen to concerned citizens through awareness fine. We can talk till we're blue in the face about safety and awareness, but we can't stop a loser who chooses to store gasoline in milk jugs in his son's bedroom. We can't stop someone from pouring lighter fluid on the neighbors front porch and lighting it because he thinks they're going to testify against him. (as happened in our city just last year killing 2 adults and 4 children.) He knew what he was doing and the outcome it could have. He chose to do it anyway.

    We can not prevent things from happening. Bad things happen to good people, and good things happen to bad people. It's one of the ironies of life.

    If you feel like a failure, and you're "too damn old" do the best thing you could ever do for the public and quit.

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    Actually, I don't feel like a failure as our numbers are going steadily down.

    And a big chunk of the reason I took this job was that I'm not expected to go to many fires or incidents. That's why we have volunteers. Again, in our combo department, the fulltime personnel exist to support, and to a limited extent, supervise the volunteers, not the other way around

    My job is pubed, training and admin, and very little fireground.

    Last year I was offered a firefighting position by another fire district for about the same money, but I turned it down, because well, it was a firefighting position.

    Being almost 50, and having 30 years in as a vollie and call firefighter, I have fought enough fires. At this point in my career, I enjoy the pubed and support role much more than fireground functions.
    Last edited by LaFireEducator; 06-21-2009 at 07:03 PM.

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    Good Choice!

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    We could sit here all day and discuss about the primary role of a fire department. Most here would take the American view which is response and suppression. I feel it's the European and Asian view, which is prevention and education.

    It has been discussed before and doesn't need to be discussed again.

    The fact is, until we start spending more than 1% opf the department's budget, on average, on prevention, we are not going to change the habits of the citizens. 1% does not give them the exposure to the message needed to change their behaviors.

    We each have our feelings on the importance of prevention and education in the fire service. Let's just leave it at that, for now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    We could sit here all day and discuss about the primary role of a fire department. Most here would take the American view which is response and suppression. I feel it's the European and Asian view, which is prevention and education.
    Then move.
    Logic and proportion have fallen sloppy dead.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    We could sit here all day and discuss about the primary role of a fire department. Most here would take the American view which is response and suppression. I feel it's the European and Asian view, which is prevention and education.

    It has been discussed before and doesn't need to be discussed again.

    The fact is, until we start spending more than 1% opf the department's budget, on average, on prevention, we are not going to change the habits of the citizens. 1% does not give them the exposure to the message needed to change their behaviors.

    We each have our feelings on the importance of prevention and education in the fire service. Let's just leave it at that, for now.
    It seems to me that you equate the lack of funding being provided for fire prevention & education purposes as a sign that those department feel that the programs aren't important. I really don't think that's truly the case.

    For some of us, the budget is kind of out of our hands and in the hands of our local government officials. As we should all be able to see all too well these days, many of us are barely getting enough money in the budget to keep the operations side of things going.

    For example, my department has a fire safety house (trailer) that doesn't get used very much largely because we have no money in the budget for staffing to operate it. We're already understaffed for operations, so using on-duty staffing isn't much of an option most of the time.

    So, if it takes 99% of the budget to be able to provide suppression related services, then how will we be able to spend more than 1% on prevention without negatively impacting our ability to mitigate the emergency when it does happpen?

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    Quote Originally Posted by confire View Post
    Can you explain what these units are and what they do? Iím unfamiliar with anything like that.
    Awe come on FFRED... tell us... I know there are no buffs and OSW's in the engines and trucks... especially all those guys in the 13th BN who have gone to SOC or are waiting to go... I guess they will get a buff implant when they get there?
    Last edited by jfTL41; 06-21-2009 at 08:51 PM.

  22. #97
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    I sense a disturbance in the force,hehe T.C.

  23. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Actually, I don't feel like a failure as our numbers are going steadily down.

    So what? So are actual fire numbers in much of the US. In fact where my volly FD is located we haven't had a structure fire this year yet. Does that mean our non-existent pub ed is better than your paid pub ed is? Numbers would suggest it is.

    And a big chunk of the reason I took this job was that I'm not expected to go to many fires or incidents. That's why we have volunteers. Again, in our combo department, the fulltime personnel exist to support, and to a limited extent, supervise the volunteers, not the other way around

    My job is pubed, training and admin, and very little fireground.\

    Ah, so in reality, you are NOT a line firefighter. You are admin. So do us a favor and stop acting and talking like you are a firefighter. When your job really doesn't include that and you avoid it at all costs anyways.

    By the way, it is pub ed. Not pubed, not some perverted genital hair topic on a sex forum.


    Last year I was offered a firefighting position by another fire district for about the same money, but I turned it down, because well, it was a firefighting position.

    BULL *****! You turned it down because you would have to actually be a firefighter and not a ducker and dodger from line firefighting work.

    Being almost 50, and having 30 years in as a vollie and call firefighter, I have fought enough fires. At this point in my career, I enjoy the pubed and support role much more than fireground functions.

    I am 50, I have been a firefighter since I was 18 years old, and I still love the work. We had a job today and I was part of the roof vent crew where we opened the roof in 2 places. Nice big, sweet 4 by 4 holes. Damn, Dude, that is satisfaction. Doing the job. Doing it right. I guess maybe if you aren't physically capable of doing the job anymore, if you ever really were, it is a good thing you can at least be honest enough to admit that to yourself.
    Really, stop with the pubed wording, it is simply WRONG. It is 2 words.

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    Thanks for putting this up Fred. Looks like you guys can get a lot of boots on the ground in a hurry.
    Those roll up doors look like a bitch to peel after they get hot and warp.
    IAFF

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    Once again,back on track. Thanks Snowball! T.C.

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