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  1. #1
    Forum Member FyredUp's Avatar
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    Default Anyone running a heavy rescue as a engine company?

    My FD is exploring the idea of purchasing a heavy rescue with Class A pumper capabilities. Is anyone out there running one of these?

    This would run everyday engine company calls and double as a heavy rescue.


  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    My FD is exploring the idea of purchasing a heavy rescue with Class A pumper capabilities. Is anyone out there running one of these?

    This would run everyday engine company calls and double as a heavy rescue.
    We're no where close to being a "heavy rescue" unless you're talking about the weight of the vehicle , but we operate a single-axle quint predominately as an engine and it carries most of our rescue equipment.

    There's a lot more rescue-engines than heavy rescues in my area, but they're pretty much all operated by the volunteer departments, none of which are what I'd call "high volume" in terms of runs and fires.

    Which department is this for? Did you have a specific question?

  3. #3
    Forum Member FyredUp's Avatar
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    It is for my career FD. The intent as explained to me is to have a front line response rig capable of carrying all of our technical rescue equipment, extrication equipment, AND run as a full Class A engine company.

    I posted in the hopes that someone else out there may be running something like this and could post a pic or 2 and explain how it is working for them.

    I would rather not mention the FD at this point since I am researching this on my own and not as a member of the committee at this point.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    It is for my career FD. The intent as explained to me is to have a front line response rig capable of carrying all of our technical rescue equipment, extrication equipment, AND run as a full Class A engine company.

    I posted in the hopes that someone else out there may be running something like this and could post a pic or 2 and explain how it is working for them.

    I would rather not mention the FD at this point since I am researching this on my own and not as a member of the committee at this point.
    Do you have any specific OAL or wheelbase restrictions? I know there's a few around here that are pretty loaded, but some of them are also a bit on the large side.

    I'll see if I can find a few pictures from the ones around here. Don't think I'll be able to help much a far as how they are operationally in terms of heavy usage since the ones around here really aren't very busy.

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    I believe Mount Horb might have a truk similar to what you want.
    That will need to be a BIG rig to have all that stuff on it.

  6. #6
    Forum Member PenguinMedic's Avatar
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    I work for a small combination department just outside Portland, Oregon. We run 4-5 career members per shift, and this is our 1st out engine.

    From our website:


    Engine 61 is a 1999 Pierce Saber rescue pumper. It has a 1,250 gallon per minute single stage pump, Husky dual-agent foam system, and carries 500 gallons of water. Engine 61 has a 6 Kw onboard generator, which provides power to a “Night Scan” telescoping light tower for scene illumination and electricity for the engine’s portable lights and electrical tools. This unit has full Advanced Life Support airway, medical and cardiac equipment for rapid medical intervention on vehicle accidents and home first-aid calls. Engine 61 carries one of Canby Fire’s three Thermal Imaging Cameras and a portable gas monitor.

    In addition to fire fighting equipment, Engine 61 carries a number of rescue tools and acts as the Fire District’s heavy rescue unit. Engine 61 has a Hurst Tool extrication system with two hydraulic rams, a hydraulic spreading unit, a hydraulic cutter and a power plant that powers two hydraulic tools simultaneously. This allows us to cut entrapped accident victims out of cars and other mangled wreckage. Also, this unit carries Rescue 42 stabilization struts and a pneumatic airbag system used to lift extremely heavy loads in order to free trapped victims. Engine 61 carries life jackets, shore based water rescue tools, a stokes rescue basket, and a low angle rope rescue system to cover a variety of different emergencies.

    The best way I could describe this rig is that it's "A jack of all trades, master of none". It doesn't have as much room as I would like for all of the tools and equipment we have stuffed in it, and the hose bed is extremely high and difficult to safely access. Our 2.5" stretch bed is just about impossible to deploy safely and quickly. It also has a small water tank for fires in our rural area.

    Like quints, pumper/tankers, and pumpulances, it's not as efficient or effective as a single-purpose rig. If you can't afford, or can't staff, a heavy rescue and an engine at the same time it may be right for you, but it wouln't be my first choice.

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    well, there is Kentland's Rescue Engine 33....

    What you are describing is a Rescue/Engine, Rescue Pumper, Squad, etc. It is a piece of apparatus that meets all the requirements of a heavy rescue and a pumper. More FDs are doing it, basicly trying to be more with less.

    But remember, you may be able to do both jobs (engine or rescue) but you can't do them both at the same time, because you still end up running out of people
    If my basic HazMat training has taught me nothing else, it's that if you see a glowing green monkey running away from something, follow that monkey!

    FF/EMT/DBP

  8. #8
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    Default a little information

    I couldnt find the specifications for a "heavy rescue" to compare. Before i get killed im not being brand specific but Pierce happens to be a brand im very familiar with. Either way we have a rescue pumper that has 1500 gpm pump 750 gallons of water we carry all the equip of a class A pumper. We also have full compliment of hydraulic extrication equipment, high pressure air bags, stabilizing struts, full compliment of cribbing, saws, negative and pos pressure fans, full BLS compliment (board splints, full compliment of CID equip, O2 bag, firstaid kid, traction splint), we also carry a hazmat decon shower, full compliment of battery powered tools, rope, submersable pumps, and along with normal pumper equip we carry 35 gallons of AFFF Foam in 5 gallon drums. Now mind you we also have a number of other normal hand tools and adapters that i didnt name but we do this all with 280 cubic ft. of compartment space. With this new PUC Rescue configuration you can get up to a 26' rescue body with full class A capabilities with the pump max being 1500 GPM and the Tank max being 500 gallons. However by going to this configuration you can get 1400 cubic ft. of storage space on a vehicle that is not much bigger than the rescue pumper i was describing. Im not saying that pierce is the only one who does this im sure other manuf. have similar configurations but jus figured i would throw that your way so you could look into it and have a better idea of vehicle size depending on your needs. Hope this helps let me know if you have any questions if im able to i will be happy to answer or help you research.

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    Smile Same goals here so far so good

    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    It is for my career FD. The intent as explained to me is to have a front line response rig capable of carrying all of our technical rescue equipment, extrication equipment, AND run as a full Class A engine company.
    This is pretty much how we run our new Toyne Rescue Pumper. The unit is set up side to side, the officer's side basically is set up for the role as an engine co. and the driver's side is the "rescue" side. Of course somethings from each side are used for any incident and due to space issues a few things have to be "misplaced"(noted in italics).

    On the fire side: numerous handtools, spare nozzles, adapters, wash down hose, 2 hose clamps, portable lights, electric cords and adapters,5 60 and 9 30 min SCBA cylinders, salvage covers, a chainsaw, K650, the portable electric winch, two larger air bags, the enclosed pump panel and typical engine odds and ends.

    On the Rescue side: three Res-Q-Jack space savers with all requisite stuff, extra chain, three come-a-longs, 2 pulleys, 1lg. set of composite cribbing, extra wood cribbing, 5 air bags, controller kit and hoses, tool kit, sawzall, air chisel kit, whiz saw kit, one each:. Holmatro ram, cutter, spreader, 2-50 foot hoses, 2-32 foot hoses, two DPU 31 power units, glass saw, one 200 foot donut preconnect.

    In the coffin compartments: two more Res-Q-Jack struts w/confined space tripod adapter, 4 or 5 rope bags (200 and 300ft. ea.) all high/low angle rope equipment, edge protection, portable deck gun, 4 level B HM suits, a bunch of oversized HM boots, HM gloves, tape, etc, 1 bundle spill pads and more I can't remember right now.

    Off the rear: 1300 ft. 5" LDH, 300' 3" with RAM gun (soon to be 600') 600' 2.5", 24' extension, 14' roof/wall and 10' folding ladders, one back board, 6' roof hook and a 6' boston rake.

    Obviously, we've not ironed out all the bugs in 3 months, but so far we have no complaints, only guys with suggested improvements to the layout. Depending on the run, the operator noses the truck to ward the curb on the side least likely to be used: for fires the nose heads to the left, rescue runs to the right so the crew is inboard of any traffic, though we're pretty quick just shutting down the road.

  10. #10
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    Here is a link to a picture of something that might be similar to what you are looking for.
    http://www.kimbertonfire.org/apparatus.htm
    I'm not certain how they run it for non MVA calls, but according to the website it has 500 gwt, 2500 gpm rear mount pump, and 1000' of 5" LDH. It's probably a little bigger than you want to go, but it sounds like you might need something larger than your typical rescue engine.

  11. #11
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    Is this something your looking at?
    http://www.alexisfire.com/FireEquipm...berty1963.html

  12. #12
    Forum Member Weruj1's Avatar
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    Don...........find the thread I just started .......running a true rescue engine.
    IACOJ both divisions and PROUD OF IT !
    Pardon me sir.. .....but I believe we are all over here !
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    I'm sorry, I haven't been paying much attention for the last 3 hours.....what were we discussing?
    "but I guarentee you I will FF your arse off" from>
    http://www.firehouse.com/forums/show...60#post1137060post 115

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    Smile Combination Unit

    Have you given any thought to the new MVP by Ferrara? That unit looks like it would carry all you need and then some, and still be a good first out engine.

    Good luck...

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    It looks like Trumbull Center (CT) should be taking delivery of their new heavy rescue shortly. They've set this rig up to be a "Rescue-Engine", not the "Engine-Rescues" that so many claim are heavy rescues.
    http://www.tcfd.com/cms/show_news.ph...plate=mainpage


    A lot of you are probably familiar with their front-line Saulsbury engines, which are engine first, rescue second. Once they add the new heavy rescue to the fleet, they will be a great example of the difference between engine-rescues and a rescue-engine.
    http://www.tcfd.com/apparatus/

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    Brother Fyred,You did say you were going to look at the MVP didn't you? At first glance it would seem a vehicle of that type might cover what you're trying to do. T.C.

  16. #16
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    Fyred, we're working on one right now, but it won't technically qualify as a heavy rescue as we don't do the TRT disciplines (covered by our MABAS division). If you want to see a preliminary print, shoot me a PM with your e-mail. It will carry our current extrication squad's complement of water as well as being a front line engine.
    Last edited by npfd801; 06-16-2009 at 02:34 PM.
    "Share your knowledge - it's a way to achieve immortality." - Stolen from Chase Sargent's Buddy to Boss program

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    The big question is "What is a heavy rescue"? We all know what a class A engine should be, but to what level will the rescue side of things be equipped?

    Our unit carries 90% of our rescue gear but doesn't meet what I'd consider a heavy rescue. That being said, it does cover confined space, high/low angle, extrication, RIT assignments, water rescue and partially the ops portion of haz-mat response (technician gear is in a HM tech trailer).

    Some more stuff we carry in addition to what was listed in my post above:
    6 traffic cones, 4 portable extinguishers, forestry gear, 2 house jacks, 6 spare wheel chocks, 2 stokes -1 plastic, 1-metal floating, 1 magic folding ladder, 1 lock out/tag out kit, Drager tubes, 4 gas meter, PID, radiac, TIC, 5 SCBA, 5 handlights, 1 Command Light tower.

    After July 1st, we'll be adding more 3" hose and an electric blower. Did I mention we're not worrying about space. Whole package is under 33' long.

  18. #18
    Forum Member Rescue101's Avatar
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    I'm not too worried about space either,hehe T.C.

  19. #19
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    Thumbs up Ferrara MVP

    You may wish to look at the MVP Ferrara introduced. I saw it in PA and was impressed.

  20. #20
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    If you're looking for a heavy rescue that also is a class A engine, not an engine that also does rescue, then try this:


    http://www.fdmh.org/id4.html

    Scroll down to the bottom and look at "Squad 1"


    Another look, same vehicle:

    http://www.customfire.com/details.php?id=31

    They are more than happy to show it off to anyone who stops by.
    We do not rise to the occasion. We fall back to our level of training.

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