1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by jakesdad View Post
    I wholeheartedly disagree with this statement.

    Just because someone has a system they feel will work DOES NOT mean that it WILL work.

    I am not advocating the use of any particular system.

    What I am advocating is taking an honest look at what events would cause you to exit out of a window in the first place and how much time you will actually have to use whatever system you choose and under what conditions you will be deploying that system.
    So do you not train for bailouts then? If it gets "bad", are you going to wait to burn or jump out the window and hope you live?



    We train the body slide for quick exit from a rope bag/biner that are attached to our pack waist strap. For emergency exits we practice ladder bailouts. Most all of our district is residential, 2-4 story apartments, and 1-2 story commercial, and know where your ladders are.

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    Quote Originally Posted by upstater View Post
    It's tough to tell for sure, but I think that they're using it here...

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NhNI6IBaVj0


    We use it, and practice it pretty regularly.
    Thats it the way I was taught and have always practiced it.
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    I don't mind fire rolling over my head. I just don't like it rolling UNDER my a**.

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    I carry an air mattress rolled up in my pants. When the s#it hits the fan and the animal is looking at me, I just pull it out and lay it neatly on the floor. Then, I take off my tank and disconnect the hose. I attach a custom made valve to it and inflate the bed half way. This way it will still fit out the window. I then tie a triple shawshank knot around three railroad spike and drive them into the floor. I attach my rope to my bed and carefully lower it out the window. Once it's in place I look the beast right in the eye and say "I'll be back", hang, and drop to the comfort of my bed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Whocares View Post
    I carry an air mattress rolled up in my pants. When the s#it hits the fan and the animal is looking at me, I just pull it out and lay it neatly on the floor. Then, I take off my tank and disconnect the hose. I attach a custom made valve to it and inflate the bed half way. This way it will still fit out the window. I then tie a triple shawshank knot around three railroad spike and drive them into the floor. I attach my rope to my bed and carefully lower it out the window. Once it's in place I look the beast right in the eye and say "I'll be back", hang, and drop to the comfort of my bed.

    Therma-Rest style or AeroBed? Cause the Aerobed comes with it's own inflater, no need to waste air.

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    I carry a 50' piece of 8mm rope stuffed n a 40' bag w/ a carabiner. I attach it to my pack & if needed just toss the bag out the window & attach the carabiner end to my tool that I use as an anchor. Total cost was about $60. I live n NC & we have a Breathing Equipment School at Gaston Community College. Best class I've ever taken! There was even a guy from FL in our class. Well worth the trip!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Whocares View Post
    I carry an air mattress rolled up in my pants. When the s#it hits the fan and the animal is looking at me, I just pull it out and lay it neatly on the floor. Then, I take off my tank and disconnect the hose. I attach a custom made valve to it and inflate the bed half way. This way it will still fit out the window. I then tie a triple shawshank knot around three railroad spike and drive them into the floor. I attach my rope to my bed and carefully lower it out the window. Once it's in place I look the beast right in the eye and say "I'll be back", hang, and drop to the comfort of my bed.
    LMFAO...now that was good!
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    Quote Originally Posted by GaiusPaul View Post
    So do you not train for bailouts then? If it gets "bad", are you going to wait to burn or jump out the window and hope you live?
    I am not sure how you could possibly make that assumption based on anything I have ever posted in here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jakesdad View Post
    It is not an everyday scenario or occurence. And acknowledging that what may work in a training building might not necessarily work in reality because it is impossible to duplicate the urgency of a situation such as a flashover isn't about "unreasonable hatred" of one particular way.

    Quote Originally Posted by jakesdad View Post
    I am not sure how you could possibly make that assumption based on anything I have ever posted in here.


    Then how do you train for it? From the above one can infer that because of the urgency of a flashover, nothing is going to work for you short of something like jumping out of the window. Therefore my assumption.

    When I think bailout, I am thinking of collapse danger of loss of fire control, something that would call for IC to call an emergency withdrawal. I think most can agree if you are in a room that flashes, chances are you're not going anywhere.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GaiusPaul View Post
    Then how do you train for it? From the above one can infer that because of the urgency of a flashover, nothing is going to work for you short of something like jumping out of the window. Therefore my assumption.

    When I think bailout, I am thinking of collapse danger of loss of fire control, something that would call for IC to call an emergency withdrawal. I think most can agree if you are in a room that flashes, chances are you're not going anywhere.
    I never once mentioned "not training for it". In fact I have said the exact opposite.

    But rather than be fooled by the latest gadget and sales reps or by techniques proposed by people who do not understand fire behavior I would encourage every firefighter to think about the events that would lead up to an emergency exit via a window.

    When thinking about those situations you should ask yourself:

    - will I have to go further into the room to look for an anchor?
    - how will my system secure itself to me?
    - how will my system secure itself to the anchor?
    - how much time will it take to implement my system?
    - can I do it while injured?
    - can I do it while being foced to the floor due to heat conditions?
    - how long can I reasonalby expect to hang from my system after I exit the window?
    - how many floors up can I be expected to be in my response area?

    I seriously doubt whether ANY of these things are considered by several people who possess extremely cavalier attitudes about what they are going to do to "bailout".

    But I am not quite sure where you got the impression that I was against training on this paramount personal safety issue. Nothing could be further from the truth.

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    It's NOT that complicated......... If you're leaving a perfectly good building to go swing on a 7-8MM ROPE one of two things is happening.Either you're training: GOOD! Or all other possibilities of leaving the building safely have been exhausted. If that is the case,your options are few. TIME is one thing you DON'T have. I've used engineered systems and I've used the body slide. IN MY RESPONSE AREA either will accomplish the required task in a timely fashion.I agree with those that say in a three story or less a body slide will be quite satisfactory PROVIDED you practice the method on a regular basis. The same rule applies for the engineered system,if you DO NOT practice with it you'll be in trouble if you have to bail. I'm not inclined to argue with those who think the engineered system is the ONLY acceptable method. Theory(and practice)says that there is a time critical period in which you can bail.Once the room is engulfed,if you're NOT on the ground,that rope or hook is GOING to be compromised.Personally,I'm not going to "hang"around to find out.Out and down,quickly. T.C.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rescue101 View Post
    It's NOT that complicated......... If you're leaving a perfectly good building to go swing on a 7-8MM ROPE one of two things is happening.Either you're training: GOOD! Or all other possibilities of leaving the building safely have been exhausted. If that is the case,your options are few. TIME is one thing you DON'T have. I've used engineered systems and I've used the body slide. IN MY RESPONSE AREA either will accomplish the required task in a timely fashion.I agree with those that say in a three story or less a body slide will be quite satisfactory PROVIDED you practice the method on a regular basis. The same rule applies for the engineered system,if you DO NOT practice with it you'll be in trouble if you have to bail. I'm not inclined to argue with those who think the engineered system is the ONLY acceptable method. Theory(and practice)says that there is a time critical period in which you can bail.Once the room is engulfed,if you're NOT on the ground,that rope or hook is GOING to be compromised.Personally,I'm not going to "hang"around to find out.Out and down,quickly. T.C.

    Ask Firefighter Jeff Cool FDNY rescue 3 if the body slide works. He was involved in black Sunday and was unable to slow down or stop with the body slide. His career is over b/c of that day. In fact we can thank him and the other members of FDNY who lost their lives that day for the personal safety systems we have today. (NEVER Forget)..... Thatís why I carry a prerigged safety system on me every call I go on. If you want to risk your life by using the body slide then by all means go for it. For me I am going to learn by the brothers who have gone before me. Who have been there and done that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by giweff View Post
    Ask Firefighter Jeff Cool FDNY rescue 3 if the body slide works. He was involved in black Sunday and was unable to slow down or stop with the body slide. His career is over b/c of that day. In fact we can thank him and the other members of FDNY who lost their lives that day for the personal safety systems we have today. (NEVER Forget)..... Thatís why I carry a prerigged safety system on me every call I go on. If you want to risk your life by using the body slide then by all means go for it. For me I am going to learn by the brothers who have gone before me. Who have been there and done that.
    At least we CAN ask him. Becuase he is ALIVE. If he hadnt used the body slide and just jumped, his life, not his career, would probably be over.
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    I don't mind fire rolling over my head. I just don't like it rolling UNDER my a**.

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    And NO WHERE in my post did I say the body slide was preferable to the engineered system.I SAID,IN MY AREA,either one would work.And EITHER is preferable to the other option.I'd love to have the chance to take with FF Cool as I have an idea he could offer a lot more insight on that day than just a failed escape "system".Very few systems here,but we're working on it as funds become available. T.C.

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    Can somebody give me a step by step process as to how you would perform a body slide? I'm unfamiliar with it so I'd rather spend the extra $ with a system I know Ive used and can use vs something I've never done except hear about.
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    Quote Originally Posted by giweff View Post
    Ask Firefighter Jeff Cool FDNY rescue 3 if the body slide works. He was involved in black Sunday and was unable to slow down or stop with the body slide. His career is over b/c of that day. In fact we can thank him and the other members of FDNY who lost their lives that day for the personal safety systems we have today. (NEVER Forget)..... Thatís why I carry a prerigged safety system on me every call I go on. If you want to risk your life by using the body slide then by all means go for it. For me I am going to learn by the brothers who have gone before me. Who have been there and done that.
    umm... he's alive isn't he? Not the preferred outcome, but given the situation I'd say its not to shabby.

    and to preempt your response, if you want to disregard the body slide technique because of this "failure", you better get rid of every piece of equipment in the firehouse because it's failed before.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GTRider245 View Post
    At least we CAN ask him. Becuase he is ALIVE. If he hadnt used the body slide and just jumped, his life, not his career, would probably be over.
    That is very true; the body slide did save his life there is no doubt about that. And it is a good technique and has saved firefighters. Just not the best if you can't afford a system than fine use what you have access too, as long as you have trained o it. I was just making the point there is a lot better ways out there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rescue101 View Post
    And NO WHERE in my post did I say the body slide was preferable to the engineered system.I SAID,IN MY AREA,either one would work.And EITHER is preferable to the other option.I'd love to have the chance to take with FF Cool as I have an idea he could offer a lot more insight on that day than just a failed escape "system".Very few systems here,but we're working on it as funds become available. T.C.
    I was not trying to start anything with you or anyone else for that matter I was just saying that IMO and most of the country a system that is attached to you and doesn't rely on you holding you body weight plus the weight of your gear on your wet gloved hands is a lot safer. Will they both work for sure they will, use what you have and are comfortable with.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nameless View Post
    umm... he's alive isn't he? Not the preferred outcome, but given the situation I'd say its not to shabby.

    and to preempt your response, if you want to disregard the body slide technique because of this "failure", you better get rid of every piece of equipment in the firehouse because it's failed before.
    Yes he is alive thank god. I don't want to disregard the body slid technique either I never said that. I think it can save my life or your life. If that is all you can afford or you dept can then great I would rather have something than nothing at all. And go listen to FF cool's interview on through the smoke he said that the body slide technique is not good enough any more. That is someone who have more experience than I would say most of us have. Especially with bail out and the body slide. IMO the body slide is still good if thatís all you have but all I am trying to say there is bigger and better things out there that are a lot safer to use. If you don't agree that is fine we are all allowed our own opinions.
    Stay safe out there brothers.

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    I would have to strong agree with your statement. The way I look at it is that if I have to spend $200-300 for a system that I'm more familiar with and know I can use better, (I hope) my life is worth spending the extra money and hopefully saving myself if I ever get into the situation in which I may need to use it.
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    We're predominately 1-2 story buildings.A few 3-4(very few).We have a few systems the crews bought for themselves. There has been major budget cuts in town and we can only fund a couple things outside of that a year. As it sits now, the "bailout systems"is scheduled for funding in NEXT years budget.Until then we'll keep using what we have.I've practiced long enough with the wrap that I know I can get out of any of OUR buildings with it. Ideal it isn't.But it beats the alternative.If I do MY job CORRECTLY,hopefully we'll never have to find out. T.C.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rescue101 View Post
    If I do MY job CORRECTLY,hopefully we'll never have to find out. T.C.
    Its very similar to a wildland shelter, you train to use it but hope that you never have to, BUT if you do have to use it your very thankful that you had it.
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    Hehe,you're right.My commentary was more slanted toward my command position,I don't spend much time inside anymore.But if I do my job RIGHT,it should lessen the chances our personnel are exposed to this possibility. I DO want them to be proficent in the procedure if needed. T.C.

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    Body belay is all fine and well in a training setting, next time you practice it (you practice it regularly right?) install a window with glass and a sash to clear, and have a guy there with a roofing torch providing your motivation...
    Same goes for any idea of tying knots, driving tools into floors, or using a system that is not hands free and already attached to your person (not your scba, or a caribeaner that needs to be clipped to you before deploying). What ever system you are considering it has to be on you all the time and has to be able to hold you hands free once you are on rope.
    While these systems are being shoved down our throats we seem to be losing sight of two things, first: Putting out the fire makes everything better. and secondly: Know your job, know your enemy... the goal is to not have to jump out the window, monitor conditions and monitor fireground operations and don't over extend yourself, know your limitations, and respect the enemy.

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    I couldn't agree more.Yet when you say it publicly(RM),bad things happen. T.C.
    Last edited by Rescue101; 06-21-2009 at 10:31 PM.

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    OK guys, based off what I'm looking to get which is a yates kevlar escape belt, 50 feet of fire resistive rope, 2 biners, a TFS bailout bag, crosby hook. I will put the bag in my pocket with the hook hanging out so when i have to deploy, i can reach in grab my hook, throw the bag out the window, do 3 wraps on my biner, hook into my belt, and go out. Does anyone see anything wrong with that specific system, or a better way to do it that will cost me less?
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