1. #76
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    This to me is a personal question. I like all the bail-out systems. They all have there ups and downs. For me I have a 60ft rope with a beaner on the end. I also have a type 2 harness on my bunker pants. I have found that for me I am most comfortable anchoring my tool to the window framing or just wrap the rope around a stud(I usually carry a halligan) and making two to three wraps around my harness beaner and going out the window.
    I have never had to do this for real, but in training I have had an oppertunity to try may different ways and this is my favorite. Also the harness can be used for many more fireground operations. The harness will run about 125 dollars and the loops on the bunker pants about 100 dollars. The rope depends on what you want.

    Good luck

  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by TruckSixFF View Post
    If I had to go with a pre loaded bailout system I would have to go with what the FDNY has set up. I saw a demo on that at FDIC and it was simple, fast, and reliable. With that being said I would have to get harness loops on my pants, a gemptor harness or other built in harness, and the pre loaded system. I have practiced with the bailout tactic I discussed before and I hope to never you it. I already have a truckmans belt with a beiner on the front and it seems to work well by puting a munters hitch to the front of that and going.

    http://www.allhandsfire.com/images/e..._breakdown.jpg
    My volly department bought these systems for everyone on the department with an AFG grant for PPE. I have done the body wrap style bailouts, ladder hook bail outs and hoseline bailouts... IMO, this by far is one of the safest and fastest bailouts I have ever done. These systems work well, as a matter of fact, a week before ours went into service, a FDNY firefighter was saved by using this same system. you can literally be out of a window in less than 10 seconds. I was a little apprehensive about diving head-first out of a window but I ended up having a blast!!! Here's a video link.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=StmOvJvyA3E

  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rescue101 View Post
    A question comes up.When are you guys finding TIME to tie anything? If I got time to tie something I would call it a GOOD day.Even using the body wrap,I've got a big 'biner on the end so I can clip and go.And I've since modified my pack to include a descender. T.C.
    Are you using a descender with the body slide? If so, can you explain how it is set up? Very interested...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rescue101 View Post
    I don't mind fire rolling over my head. I just don't like it rolling UNDER my a**.

  4. #79
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    Put the fire out and you don't have to jump out the window.

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    GT,Nope it's setup for my Gut belt.I stepped up from the body wrap.So far haven't used either in anger and hope I never have to.

    Rdavis,That's a great idea.But since guys that fight more fire daily than most of us do annually seem to get trapped and have to bail on occasion,I think you better do your prep work ahead of time.AND have a rope.I'm convinced having a rope CAN'T be a bad thing.I prefer stairs or a ladder but I HATE the smell of burning flesh,PARTICULARLY my own. T.C.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rdavis719 View Post
    Put the fire out and you don't have to jump out the window.
    Thanks for that intelligent and well thought out addition to the thread.

    Thanks T.C. that cleared that up.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rescue101 View Post
    I don't mind fire rolling over my head. I just don't like it rolling UNDER my a**.

  7. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by GTRider245 View Post
    Thanks for that intelligent and well thought out addition to the thread.

    Thanks T.C. that cleared that up.
    It was a quote the the Late Andrew Fredricks used to say....and yeah, its basically true.

    The thought process was not to get ahead of yourself. Slow down, look at where you are, where the fire is, and what its doing. That was one of Lt Fredricks main teaching points. I think thats what rdavis ment.
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    I'm OK with the thought process.Vinnie,your guys(brothers)are as well trained as any in the world.In THEORY,they've been taught this lesson. Yet,in TOO MANY cases over the last five years,many have got caught with no way out but a rope.That's why I'm saying train to RECOGNIZE but also train to leave: Via rope if necessary.When it's catching some of the worlds best firefighters,it sure as hell can catch those with less experience.Plan for the worst and hope for the best. T.C.
    Last edited by Rescue101; 07-30-2009 at 12:12 PM.

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    Rescue, I am not saying anything for or against rope. Just clearing up what the guy means (my view of course)t after he was berated for his comment.

    Yes its a tool, a great one, I love mine on my hip, I like to drill with it often, and discuss the topic at the kitchen table. But much like any innovation in the fire service it will be used by the less experienced and some self touting "experts" as a pancea. Much like bunker gear and TiCs. Nothing is should be a substitute to smart firefighting.

    I am a FIRM believer that fires behavior is very predictable....we on the other hand are not. Open a window what happens? Vent to early what happens? No water, improperly placed lines, extension unchecked, not addressing fire behavior, being above the fire without water....what happens? Having a viable option to get yourself out IS needed....but I hope it doesn't turn into "hey, I can make it without water....I have a rope" mentality.
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    Vinnie,We're on the same page Brother. I agree 125% with avoiding the condition requiring a bailout.But what I'm also suggesting is,if YOU guys can find yourselves in this prediciment,those of lesser fire experience CERTAINLY can.Hope I never have to find out. T.C.

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    Rescue, as a NYS fire Instructor, I have taught firefighter survival since day one. Firefighter safety is very important. I teach as I have been taught by many of my instructors when I went through probie school at the NYS fire academy. Those instructors included Mickey Conboy, Andy Fredricks and Mike Wilber. They taught me a lot and I continue to learn and teach what I learn everyday, including keeping the fire in front of you and staying out of trouble. My department has issued ropes and train with them often since 1999. Now those ropes are not good enough. My department has bought the Voodoo system and it works well. We have also bought harnesses and new turnout pants for them. I think it is a waste of money. We need man power more. We are forced to buy all of this gear by the lobbists that push bills in government. We lose firefighters because we are forced to fight with less every year.

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    Does anyone know if you can wear the gemtor NYC harness inside you turnout pants? Thanks in advance.

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    Rdavis,I agree. Fortunately for me we're a medium run density POC Dept so manpower to date hasn't been a real issue. I'm a BIG believer in the suppression methods drilled into me over 40 years ago.They STILL have a place and STILL WORK today. I still like the "old" gear in terms of FF comfort and mobility.Guess I better get over that.I need look no further than the devastated Fire companies in Portland Me to know what you're talking about.Somebody's gonna get hurt by these understaffed companies. That being said,I still stand by my statement: train to avoid,but have a secondary means if the bottom falls out. And yeah,I know all those guys you mentioned. Good FF's,every one.Some are visitors(some regular) to this sleepy little town. Stay safe,T.C.

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    I made it up to our local drill tower a few weekends ago, and just now posting pics. I have some pics of me actually bailing out and a few pics of the kit itself outside the bunkers. I found the kit works pretty well, if needed I can get out of the room pretty quick. Our drill tower is solid brick and I need to do some more work on achoring my crosby hook into a brick window frame because I didnt have much luck that day. Also being the only guy on the department with a bailout kit aside from one other guy I want to practice another guy clipping into my belt and trusting me to get us both down. Here are some pics, check em out let me, voice your opinions if needed.






    I tired to get the images to just show in the post itself but I could only get the links to work if somebody knows how to get just the image on here, let me know and I'll try to edit it agian.
    Last edited by fireman605; 08-01-2009 at 01:26 PM.
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  15. #90
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    My dept. is lucky we just recently purchased all new msa firehawk with the 75ft built in bailout and we use the body slide as long as you have a good anchor point the kevlar webbing and the biner work excellent together we train once a month and recertify in rit and firefighter survival once a year all i can say is train train train no matter what system you or your department uses...



    stay safe!!

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