1. #1
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    Default Self rescue bailouts

    Hey guys, just doing research on creating a self-rescue kit for myself to bailout on. Just curious to see what you guys carry, and your technique for going out. I'm trying to find an acutally firefighter survival class involving all this to take but until then just trying to get opinions. I appoligize in advance if I posted this in the wrong section, just correct me if I did and i'll repost it.
    What Im looking at buying is as follows:
    Yates Kevlar escape belt
    50' rope
    TFS: bailout bag
    Crosby hook
    then i already have carabiners and an 8 which I will do numerous trials runs on to determine if I will use an 8 or knotless knot on a biner to go out of the window.
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    Where are you located?

    For me, I am comfortable comming out a window with nothing but a section of rope and a tool to anchor to. Saves money, as you have no harness to worry about, no extra 8s and carabiners, and unless your gear was ordered that way, you will have to have loops sewn on.

    The method I am referring to is the one where you anchor the rope, wrap it around your back, hold both the anchor end and working end in your hands, and use your body as a brake. With proper training this is a very simple and quick way to exit a window.
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    I would recommend what i bought a complete package by tfs i have the yates belt pre set very nicely, easy to use. check it out http://www.thefirestore.com/store/pr...t_or_bag_only/

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    Quote Originally Posted by GTRider245 View Post
    Where are you located?

    For me, I am comfortable comming out a window with nothing but a section of rope and a tool to anchor to. Saves money, as you have no harness to worry about, no extra 8s and carabiners, and unless your gear was ordered that way, you will have to have loops sewn on.

    The method I am referring to is the one where you anchor the rope, wrap it around your back, hold both the anchor end and working end in your hands, and use your body as a brake. With proper training this is a very simple and quick way to exit a window.
    How exactly are you anchoring the rope to the tool? And how are you anchoring the tool?

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    Keep 40-50 Ft. of rope in your bunker pants pocket with 1 end pre-tied with a figure 8 on a bight. Using a Gutbelt, Gemptor harness, or a harness built into your gear. When shi* hits the fan and its time to bail simply pull your rope out of your pants, throw your tool* into the floor, wall, what ever, then tie your rope around the tool using the figure 8 on a bight. The preferred tool for this is a halligan, but a ax, or hook will work just fine. Once you have your rope anchored onto the tool, tie a munters hitch onto your a carabeiner on your Gutbelt, Gemptor, built in harness, or what ever else you have. In the case that your on the engine and do not have a tool tie your rope around something fixed in the room. "Starting with the end of a rope having a Figure-8 on a bight, pass the loop of the bight between the blades of the fork. Bring the running end of the rope around the pick and then make a hitch around the shaft, above the know. THEN spike the halligan into the floor. With practice, this can be accomplished very quickly."

    Here is a link that shows the set up of this anchor-

    http://traditionstraining.com/blog/2...-anchor-point/
    Last edited by TruckSixFF; 06-16-2009 at 11:53 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TruckSixFF View Post
    Keep 40-50 Ft. of rope in your bunker pants pocket with 1 end pre-tied with a figure 8 on a bight. Using a Gutbelt, Gemptor harness, or a harness built into your gear. When shi* hits the fan and its time to bail simply pull your rope out of your pants, throw your tool* into the floor, wall, what ever, then tie your rope around the tool using the figure 8 on a bight. The preferred tool for this is a halligan, but a ax, or hook will work just fine. Once you have your rope anchored onto the tool, tie a munters hitch onto your a carabeiner on your Gutbelt, Gemptor, built in harness, or what ever else you have. In the case that your on the engine and do not have a tool tie your rope around something fixed in the room. "Starting with the end of a rope having a Figure-8 on a bight, pass the loop of the bight between the blades of the fork. Bring the running end of the rope around the pick and then make a hitch around the shaft, above the know. THEN spike the halligan into the floor. With practice, this can be accomplished very quickly."

    Here is a link that shows the set up of this anchor-

    http://traditionstraining.com/blog/2...-anchor-point/

    Can you define "quickly"?

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    watch out everyone, jakesdad has an unreasonable hatred of the body slide method of bailing out.

    Why ask quickly? no matter what method you use the issue of grounding your tool is the same unless someone buys a Crosby hook. I'd much rather use a tool than some little hook.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nameless View Post
    watch out everyone, jakesdad has an unreasonable hatred of the body slide method of bailing out.

    Why ask quickly? no matter what method you use the issue of grounding your tool is the same unless someone buys a Crosby hook. I'd much rather use a tool than some little hook.
    I have used the Crosby hook and it is a great tool I would much rather use the hook instead of a tool to tell you the truth. I think it is a lot faster than the tool. And also it is nice for the engine guys who don't always have tool with them. Whatever system you go with make sure it is pre rigged and ready to go. All that stuff about tying to your tool and barring it into the ground and hooking the rope up to you belt is a bunch of BS. If the fire is so hot that you need to bail in the first place I don't know about you but I don't want to be looking all over the place for an anchor or tying knots or hooking repel devices up to my harness or belt.

    The body slide works fine during training when you have ample time to make sure everything is just right. Not to mention when you gloves are dry and you have plenty of grip. I would rather use a decent device any day than the body slide. But hey if that’s all you can afford or all you dept issues you I guess train train train and hope you can hold on if you ever have to use it.

    Also I would get a device other than and 8. I would get something that allows you to excite the building hands free. I think that is a huge benefit to have both of you hands and that is one less thing you have to worry about when you are getting the f out of dodge.

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    If I had to go with a pre loaded bailout system I would have to go with what the FDNY has set up. I saw a demo on that at FDIC and it was simple, fast, and reliable. With that being said I would have to get harness loops on my pants, a gemptor harness or other built in harness, and the pre loaded system. I have practiced with the bailout tactic I discussed before and I hope to never you it. I already have a truckmans belt with a beiner on the front and it seems to work well by puting a munters hitch to the front of that and going.

    http://www.allhandsfire.com/images/e..._breakdown.jpg
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    Quote Originally Posted by nameless View Post
    watch out everyone, jakesdad has an unreasonable hatred of the body slide method of bailing out.

    Why ask quickly? no matter what method you use the issue of grounding your tool is the same unless someone buys a Crosby hook. I'd much rather use a tool than some little hook.
    Listen, you can use whatever you want to use.

    It is your life, not mine.

    But if you think for one second that a room that is about to flash will allow you enough time to tie ANYTHING to ANYTHING you are unfamiliar with the principles of fire behavior.

    Going out a window is not something you are going to debate and mull over while looking for anchor points.

    It is necessary when some catastrophic event that occurs in your immediate area that requires your IMMEDIATE exit to stay alive.

    It is not something to be taken lightly. And it is not a scenario in which you are going to go away from the window to look for an anchor or get rope from your pocket and beging tying knots.

    If you have the time to do any of that, you probably don't need to go out of the window in the first place.

    I personally have no stake in what ever system you or anyone else chooses.

    But the term "bailout" has become rather commonplace and its true meaning has been lost on far too many.

    The cavalier attitudes displayed by so many regarding how "they are gonna bailout when the sh*t gets bad" miss the mark entirely.

    It is not an everyday scenario or occurence. And acknowledging that what may work in a training building might not necessarily work in reality because it is impossible to duplicate the urgency of a situation such as a flashover isn't about "unreasonable hatred" of one particular way.

    Feel free to disagree and hope for your sake that you have as much time as you seem to think you will.
    Last edited by jakesdad; 06-16-2009 at 05:11 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nameless View Post
    watch out everyone, jakesdad has an unreasonable hatred of the body slide method of bailing out.

    Why ask quickly? no matter what method you use the issue of grounding your tool is the same unless someone buys a Crosby hook. I'd much rather use a tool than some little hook.

    Just felt like being a tool and starting a fight, eh?
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    Quote Originally Posted by nyckftbl View Post
    Just felt like being a tool and starting a fight, eh?

    I could ask you the same question.


    We already had a thread discussing bailout options and jakesdad made his opinion clear. Just warning others not to indulge him for it wouldn't be a debate. Itd be talking to someone who has already made up their mind.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nameless View Post
    I could ask you the same question.


    We already had a thread discussing bailout options and jakesdad made his opinion clear. Just warning others not to indulge him for it wouldn't be a debate. Itd be talking to someone who has already made up their mind.
    Quote Originally Posted by nameless View Post
    watch out everyone, jakesdad has an unreasonable hatred of the body slide method of bailing out.

    Why ask quickly? no matter what method you use the issue of grounding your tool is the same unless someone buys a Crosby hook. I'd much rather use a tool than some little hook.

    Ok then. Good thing we got that cleared up. If you were looking to steer the discussion towards intelligent debate, your first comment was clearly out of line....and your last comment is very obviously in contradiction to your other post about having made up ones mind. But whatever, carry on.
    Last edited by nyckftbl; 06-16-2009 at 05:21 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by nameless View Post
    I could ask you the same question.


    We already had a thread discussing bailout options and jakesdad made his opinion clear. Just warning others not to indulge him for it wouldn't be a debate. Itd be talking to someone who has already made up their mind.
    I have made up my mind much the same way you have made up yours.

    The difference is that I can defend my opinion.

    You seem unable to regarding this topic.

    So we can agree to disagree. Really, its OK.

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    I've defended my opinion before. There's really no need to rehash it since nothing has really changed.

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    Jakesdad, nyckl....How do you guys like the gemptor/petzel bailout system that the FDNY is issued? Any Pros/Cons to it?
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    OK hopefully, this doesnt turn into a debate about whos system work better. Personally I say if you feel that your system will save your life someday then your system is just fine. What Im curious about is, Im going to give you guys a couple systems im debating on and looking for some feedback on if you guys have tried this system before or not and what you thought of it. I totally agree trying knots when its time to go shouldnt be done. I'm pretty sold on the crosby hook for a couple of reasons 1 i can put it in the window sill and with a tool one hit and drive it into the wall around the window sill, 2 i can drive a tool into the floor and put it around that tool easily, 3 i can put a tool behind the window in the corner at an angle put my hook on there and go out. I do like the TFS bag, which I want to buy but its cheaper to make your own kit from sites ive found. So I will carry 50 feet of rope, along with wear an Yates escape belt with a carabiner already on the front. The issue im looking at and I'm waiting for the rest of my kit to get here so I can figure out what works best for me is if im going to use the biner already on my belt and do 3 warps for a knotless knot and go out, or use a figure 8 hook in and go. This is how I plan to have my system, so if I need it, its ready. My crosby hook with be on a figure 8 follow through at the top of my bag, if I find it easier to carry my bag in my pants I will throw it out the window or two, if I find it easier to carry it on my airpack strap i'll carry it there. I determine its time to go, I grab my crosby hook, pitch the bag or leave it on my pack, anchor in to one of the 3 above which I should be thinking about constant, how am I going to get out if I need to instead of debating when its time, then either 3 wrap on the biner or tie into the figure 8, clip into my belt and roll out the window. Give me your advice/suggestions. Sorry for the long post just wanted to get it all out there
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    Quote Originally Posted by fireman605 View Post
    OK hopefully, this doesnt turn into a debate about whos system work better. Personally I say if you feel that your system will save your life someday then your system is just fine.

    I wholeheartedly disagree with this statement.

    Just because someone has a system they feel will work DOES NOT mean that it WILL work.

    I am not advocating the use of any particular system.

    What I am advocating is taking an honest look at what events would cause you to exit out of a window in the first place and how much time you will actually have to use whatever system you choose and under what conditions you will be deploying that system.

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    What I'm trying to say is if the system works for that person and they are comfortable with it, then thats their choice, even if there is a better option or not. Just like rope, if you trust regular rope then it'll work for that person, if you want high-temp rope, then spend the extra money to be comfortable with it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TruckSixFF View Post
    simply pull your rope out of your pants, throw your tool* With practice, this can be accomplished very quickly."
    Yeah, I tried that once and was charged with indecency!

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    Quote Originally Posted by jakesdad View Post
    I wholeheartedly disagree with this statement.

    Just because someone has a system they feel will work DOES NOT mean that it WILL work.
    I agree. The only rope bailout I have had the oppertunity of training with is the body slide. That is why I advocate it. Becuase I know it works.
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    Quote Originally Posted by YFDLt08 View Post
    Yeah, I tried that once and was charged with indecency!
    HA...hows Youngstown treating you? Have you guys been burning?
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    Can anybody give me a website that shows me a body slide technique? Ive never saw one, watched one, or done one for that matter so I'm not a fan of getting what I need or going with that technique on something I've never witnessed done or done myself. Also if anyone wears a Yates kevlar escape belt let me know the pros/cons of that too thanks
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    Quote Originally Posted by fireman605 View Post
    Can anybody give me a website that shows me a body slide technique? Ive never saw one, watched one, or done one for that matter so I'm not a fan of getting what I need or going with that technique on something I've never witnessed done or done myself. Also if anyone wears a Yates kevlar escape belt let me know the pros/cons of that too thanks
    It's tough to tell for sure, but I think that they're using it here...

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NhNI6IBaVj0


    We use it, and practice it pretty regularly.
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    I have this:



    It makes a lot more sense then hoping a halligan will stay driven into the floor, or anchored in the corner of a window, etc.

    I don't know how well it works, and hope I never do.

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