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  1. #1
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    Default New OCFA Engines

    KME Fire Apparatus is delivering 9 pumpers to the Orange County Fire Authority (CA).

    Here are some photos.
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    Thumbs up Specs ?

    Do you know what motors, tranny, pumps are on the new engines, and any word on the price tag of each rig ?

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    can we have a rundown of the specs?
    Originally Posted by madden01
    "and everyone is encouraged to use Plain, Spelled Out English. I thought this was covered in NIMS training."

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    Interesting their last big delivery they went with E-One.... the first time they broke away from KME. I know they were not too happy with the original batch of E-One's so it is interesting to see them going back to KME.

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    At least theres going to be some job security for their mechanics

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    OCFA specs:
    KME Severe Service XMFD Cab/Chassis
    Detroit Series 60 490HP
    Hale Qmax 1500 gpm pump
    500 gl Poly tank
    30 gl foam cell
    Foam Pro 2002
    Foam Pro auto-refill
    Akron Deck gun
    Code 3 LED Lighting
    Zico 2 arm ladder rack
    Weldon Multi-Plex
    ROM roll-up doors
    168" Wheel base

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    I think their job security would of been a bit better with the E-One's. Anyone have any of the specs on the new KME'S?

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    Quote Originally Posted by 2ivswo View Post
    I think their job security would of been a bit better with the E-One's. Anyone have any of the specs on the new KME'S?
    Second That!

    I think KME is getting better and better with every one they build.

    I've got 2 now, 7 years apart. They both run and wont quit, but you can certainly tell the fit and finish got way better over those 7 years.

    OCFA got themselves some very KISS pumpers here.
    FTM-PTB DTRT

    Everything I state on here is to support and aid my fellow firefighters. Everything I post is my opinion only, and in no way should be taken as an official opinion of any Company, Department, or Municipality I represent... oh and this includes Pierce Mfg, as so their legal department has advised me; since they apparently also invented the right to control "Free Speech".

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    Default OCFA pictures and specs

    The specification document and specification drawing are out on Antietam Fire Apparatus web site.

    http://antietamfireapparatus.com/ima...ca/page_01.htm

    Click on photos for larger image, click on two lower images for doc and drawing.

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    Default Interesting compartments

    They have a lot of tool storage on the drivers side.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 2ivswo View Post
    Interesting their last big delivery they went with E-One.... the first time they broke away from KME. I know they were not too happy with the original batch of E-One's so it is interesting to see them going back to KME.
    there was some problems with the e-ones, but you will have that with any manufacturer.the ocfa has placed a new order with e-one for 2 100 foot rear mount platforms. ocfa now has kme, e-one , alf ,pierce and westmark as their apparatus suppliers over the last few deliveries

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    Quote Originally Posted by laddertruckgoes View Post
    Second That!

    I think KME is getting better and better with every one they build.

    I've got 2 now, 7 years apart. They both run and wont quit, but you can certainly tell the fit and finish got way better over those 7 years.

    OCFA got themselves some very KISS pumpers here.
    We got 2 rescue/pumpers last year and I was very suprised how good KME is now. I heard many nightmares of a few other departments ranging from 1996 to 2002 but I feel now that they are nearly one the best mfg'er.

    I have used Pierces, Stuphens, Darleys, and Ferrara.
    Originally Posted by madden01
    "and everyone is encouraged to use Plain, Spelled Out English. I thought this was covered in NIMS training."

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    Just for the record, the OCFA is very happy with the order of 2007 E-One pumpers. As is the case with most larger departments, most (but not all) of the apparatus orders go to the "lowest responsible bidder" which means the manufacturer that has the lowest price but also meets the specs. Over the last decade or so, KME was in fact the lowest responsible bidder for most of the OCFA apparatus purchases. Not too sure where 2ivswo gets his info or why he would make the statement that OCFA is not too happy with the E-Ones, since it's incorrect.

    As a matter of fact, I work for the OCFA and am also the field rep to our apparatus committee. We try our best to talk with our folks and see what they like and don't like on our last orders of rigs and then try to make the next ones better. In talking with those companies that got the '07 E-Ones, the overwhelming majority love them. In fact, the complaints were so few and minor, we were very surprised and pleased.

    That being said, yes, there have been a few issues with those rigs but the E-One service center has been very responsive in fixing them. It should also be noted that you will never make everyone happy and some folks will always find something to complain about, but in this case I feel pretty safe in saying that 2ivswo's statement is without merit.

    Our current order of 9 KME pumpers is almost complete, but none are in-service yet. I would also have to agree with those who say that KME's quality has improved (I would say greatly) over the last few years, especially compared to our previous units with which we had numerous problems. We are also adding one additional pumper to that order for a total of 10.

    The end result is that the almighty buck usually drives our apparatus purchases, provided they meet the specs.

    Stay safe!

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    OCFAFAE nice to see someone else on here from the west coast. Thanks for weighing in as the end user and someone who plays a role with your departments apparatus purchases.

    After talking to the E-One reps at this past years Fire House Expo San Diego regarding our departments fleet issues, they brought up OCFA in conversation regarding having some of the same problems. They eluded to the fact that OCFA was not too happy with the performance of the rigs initially, but that we should talk to you guys about how great of job they have done to make it right. After seeing the posting on here regarding the batch of KMEs your department was taking delivery of, i figured OCFA went back to KMEs due to ongoing problems with your E-ones. Further more, since your department has been running KMEs for so long i figured you guys had a sole source bid exclusively with KME up to the E-One purchases. Since the lowest bidder is the standard with many departments i am surprised that KME has been able to continually win the bid process for so many years.

    I hope you understand of where and how i arrived at my comment of your department not being happy with your E-Ones. Now knowing what you just imparted to us, i apologize for my comment. Thanks for clearing the air.

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    OCFAFAE, do you have any info on your Tiller Quints??

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    Sorry it's taken me so long to respond - I've been unbelievably busy with, imagine this, apparatus issues. Yes, I can understand how you arrived at your conclusion given our purchase history (KME) with our last few orders. No worries.
    Yes, I have plenty of info on our tillered quints. We got four in this latest order and they were an updated/improved version of the original (one only) which was not overseen by our apparatus committee and as a result, came out slightly different than the bulk of our fleet.
    They are on the ALF Eagle chassis with a 179" wheelbase - tandem rear axles due to the weight restrictions in California. 1500 gpm Hale Q-MAX pump, 300 gallon water & 10 gallon foam tanks, Foam-Pro 2001 class-A foam system, 8 kw hydrostatic generator. 100' - 500 lb tip load aerial with a pre-plumbed water-way. The overall length is 59' 10" - just under the 60' maximum in our specs. Even with the longer tractor wheelbase, they still get around very well and are a big improvement over our older straight-frame platforms. Our department is committed to quints (I won't go there since that's a whole discussion in itself) and as a result of access issues and the streets getting smaller and smaller in our communities, we did an evaluation and determined that having some tillers would be a big asset. Since we had to stay with quints and once our legal folks gave us their interpretation of the Californai weight laws, we put out the specs with tandem axle tractors. Again, they're working out well even with the "super-size" limitations and I've got to admit, they do look pretty bad-*** with the 3-axle tractor.
    Let me know if you want more info.
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    So how much did that cost? $1.5million?

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    Actually, they were just over 900 and after sales tax, they came in right at a mill each.

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    Talking

    why is there sales tax on a government purchase??

    Must be another one of the terminators funding sources to balance his checkbook.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ocfafae View Post
    Actually, they were just over 900 and after sales tax, they came in right at a mill each.
    SALES TAX???? Local government's do not pay sales tax.

    You guy got a tillered quint fo 900,000?? That must be a stripped down version. Did this incude the aerial?? Don't bs us pal.

    BTW - You guys will be sorry with the kme's. We were and got rid of them.

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    no jonee, they are not striped down rigs, but when you buy in quanity usually you will get a better price, ocfa has 4 of them. the kme engines have been very dependable. kme has made great strides in correcting the problems over the last few years. i don't think departments like la county and orca would be buying them if they were problematic . every manufacturer is going to have small problems , but if you get good support from them and their service team these problems get corrected and the rigs returned to service

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonnee View Post
    SALES TAX???? Local government's do not pay sales tax.
    I was told by a captain in Orange County that they do in California.
    I have only 2 allegiances, to my country and to my God. The rest of you are fair game.

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    Yup - we pay it. And registration fees based on weight and, and, and. I know it doesn't make sense, but thems the rules on the left coast.

    No, the ALF tillers are not stripped down. They have all the same stuff as our other rigs and are actually real nice. It took us a while to get stuff like ALCOA's and A/C, but now that type of stuff is standard on our rigs. They have the biggest Series 60 (same as the rest of the fleet) that was available (515 hp & 1650 lb. ft. of torque) so they're not under-powered or anything. Other than trying to stuff too much into one package, they're great (but since that's the direction the comittee was given - go figure - that's the direction we went).

    As far as the KME's go - they have made huge improvements over our previous orders (the last being fourteen 2005 pumpers). Guess we'll have to wait and see how they work out, but so far we're feeling pretty optimistic. The first rig of this latest order of 10 went in service yesterday and sorry to burst the bubble of those that don't like KME - it even made it to 3 calls - and back!

    Stay safe!

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    Are your trucks still US&R rated/typed? You better believe we pay sales tax out here in California. And people out here wonder why fire protection and EMS costs so much. Thanks for the info OCFAFAE. Curious what is the weight sticker on the ALFs? What is/was the process you guys use to become tillerman certified?

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    Quote Originally Posted by 2ivswo View Post
    You better believe we pay sales tax out here in California. And people out here wonder why fire protection and EMS costs so much.
    Not to worry the rest of us pay for our apparatus, just from the other pocket. Though I can't understand the rationale behind creating yet another level of payment by municipalities that pass it on to the taxpayer? Everything is paid by the taxpayer.

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