1. #1
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    Default Pinnable Waterway? Video

    Watch starting at the 55 second mark...

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SeEGbClqbEQ&feature=fvw

    Is this an automatic telescopic waterway or an almost disater?

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    Is that what Pierce calls their Quick Lock system? I thought it was still pinned though. If it isn't designed to do that, then yes it is disaster averted.
    I can't believe they actually pay me to do this!!!

    One friend noted yesterday that a fire officer only carries a flashlight, sometimes prompting grumbling from firefighters who have to lug tools and hoses.
    "The old saying is you never know how heavy that flashlight can become," the friend said.
    -from a tragic story posted on firefighterclosecalls.com

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    Judging by the way the stream was pointing while the FFer was up there right after, I'd guess this was disaster averted.

    I hope they weren't going to stick that aerial stream into the roof of the fire building? (I didn't watch further) Why do so many profess to understand ventilation, yet see fire in the sky and feel the need to push it back in?

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    My guess is the lever wasnt fully thrown forward before the stick went up. Looks like the guy on the tip had some problems operating the monitor too.

    As far as putting water through the roof, the roof was already burned off by the time the stick flowed water.

    How many of you think theres depts whose idea of ladder co operations is solely flowing water from the aerials?

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    Quote Originally Posted by RFDACM02 View Post
    Judging by the way the stream was pointing while the FFer was up there right after, I'd guess this was disaster averted.

    I hope they weren't going to stick that aerial stream into the roof of the fire building? (I didn't watch further) Why do so many profess to understand ventilation, yet see fire in the sky and feel the need to push it back in?
    You are so right. Look a hole! Filler up!
    This space for rent

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    Most useless and over the years most expensive piece of equipment on an aerial ladder. The Telescopic Waterway. My opinion!

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    Quote Originally Posted by RedBaronl32 View Post
    Most useless and over the years most expensive piece of equipment on an aerial ladder. The Telescopic Waterway. My opinion!
    Made worse by sticking it inside the ladder!

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    Quote Originally Posted by RFDACM02 View Post
    Made worse by sticking it inside the ladder!
    Where have you seen a telescopic waterway inside the ladder?

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    10 years ago a local dept blew the last section of piping right off their KME and it came crashing down to the ground because it was not pinned/locked properly. Thankfully no one was underneath it or injured. Pretty embarrassing and costly mistake. I agree, pinable waterways are not only useless, but non-idiot-proof, which is just asking for it in the fire service.

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    Cool Got me!

    Quote Originally Posted by toddmcbr View Post
    Where have you seen a telescopic waterway inside the ladder?
    Actually you got me, it's not telescopic, it's just a connection pipe I guess that you stretch hose up to, then add hose and a device to the shopping cart.
    Attached Images Attached Images  

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    Hey,I remember that picture,hehe T.C.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RFDACM02 View Post
    Judging by the way the stream was pointing while the FFer was up there right after, I'd guess this was disaster averted.

    I hope they weren't going to stick that aerial stream into the roof of the fire building? (I didn't watch further) Why do so many profess to understand ventilation, yet see fire in the sky and feel the need to push it back in?
    So very true.

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    Interesting water way. Never seen one with that kind of movement/adjustability.

    Good thing the FF wasn't in a position to lose an arm or other appendage.

    FM1
    I'm the one Fire and Rescue calls, when they need to be Rescued.

    Quote Originally Posted by EastKyFF
    "Firemens gets antsies. Theys wants to goes to fires. Sometimeses they haves to waits."

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    Default RE Pinnable Waterway Problems - Pierce

    Great to see folks are out there not only surfing the web...but taking the time to actually observe operations and comment.
    You are quite correct...could have been a disaster with the "sliding waterway." I didn't actually see the waterway "slide up"...but saw it "sliding back down" when the waterway was shut down and well....can't repeat the words going through my mind.
    After the incident, we reviewed "what went wrong" and found that the firefighter had ascended the ladder, to "flip" the lever from the "rescue" mode to lock the waterway onto the top fly section. Aparently it did not "LOCK" and the result you see on the video. Coupled with that...was the issue of the "electrically operated remote control nozzle" did not electrically operate at all (ironically service tech had thought he fixed the problem a few hours earlier) which required a firefighter to ascend the ladder and manually turn the nozzle...some of which is seen on the ladder and was a small challenge.
    We do agree this is appears to be a bad design issue with Pierce, as I don't think it is a coincidence that another manufacturer now is advertising an "electrical solution" to transfer water way from #2 to #1 fly section.
    Insofar as the comment on the "water in the vent hole"...we never had the opportunity to vent...this was a job that started from a large propane explosion that vented fire into every floor , including attic space, prior to arrival. Crews made it to #2 floor landing, when the attic ceilings failed.....pulled 'em out and up went the ladder pipe. The video shows the rest. A few minutes of ladder pipe operations, allow crews to return to interior operations.
    Good comments...and if anyone else has had similar problems and come up with a workable solution, we would be interested in hearing. One of our firefighters has suggested marking the locking mechanism more clearly to discern whether it is "LOCKED " in or not....aka firefighter proof. It's a work in progress. And yes, I am the Chief. Thanks again for the comments !

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    Chief,

    Thanks for the reply. Any word from Pierce as to their feelings?

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    Default RE : Response from Pierce

    No...it has been raised through our dealer !?!?@@##...but hey...the rig is a year old....primer has been seized for a few mos (Thank goodness we don't have to draught with it !)...and still awaiting a replacement. We have been very impressed with the construction and the rig...generally. One of my guys noticed the comment this morning on the Forum...and thought it was something we should respond to...BUT...there is no doubt that the "monitor latch" as Pierce calls it...could have been designed a bit more fireman friendly. I do not expect much of a response from Pierce...although it's on the bucket list for tomorrow to speak personally to their aerial guy . I hate to have to start putting "coloured tape...signs...stickers"..but looks like the direction to go. We found an excellent training video that some southern US FD did on the various types of "pinnable waterways" including this Pierce design. I can say...this one does appear to be a bit better...but still not fireman proof. One other thing I will say...DON'T GET THOSE BUS TYPE MIRRORS ON THE FRONT OF THE RIG (look at the video again.). We were lulled into believing this is the direction that mirrors were going (busses !!). Problem is...on a bright sunny day....can't see inside the building when members are backing in the rig...even a firefighter standing inside the door a couple of feet...cannot see him at all. Other than that...nice cab (other comments...I don't ride the thing), good construction and welds.....very few maintanance items to date...and we were glad we bought from the company we did ...rather than the "other one !!"...

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    Thumbs up RE: Pierce "Monitor Latch"

    Had discussion with Pierce in Wisconsin yesterday. There has been a slight improvement in the "monitor latch" design since this unit (June 08). An additional tab has aparently been added on the "monitor side"...which our model has only on the "rescue mode" side. This would ensure that when the monitor latch cam is flipped from Rescue to Monitor...would be a bit more "fireman friendly" where you could actually see better that it is locked into the monitor position. Pierce rep also indicated, that their R&D was looking at another design..which I hope would be upgradable to current ladders in the field. And...Yes...he had seen the forum comments before I spoke to him. They do watch this stuff !
    Again...good detective work to find the video, put it on and comments....may not always agree with them....but good discussion.

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