Problems with E-One

[sfreitag]

We at the Cottleville Fire District are having serious issues with our E-One apparatus. More specifically we are experiencing electrical problems, front and rear suspension issues, paint issues, etc. Unfortunately, E-One is unresponsive to our concerns and will not stand behind their product.

Is anyone else experiencing problems with your E-One apparatus and/or the company? We have filed a complaint with NHTSA and have our attorney involved.

If you are looking at, or have filed, any litigation, we are very interested in hearing from you.

[2ivswo]

Join the club. We have had nothing but electrical issues as well as suspension issues. Two of our 2005 Cyclone II's rear leaf springs had catastrophic failures one of them almost causing the rear end to fall out. E-one failed to compensate or let alone work with us regarding this matter. Saw them at their booth at Firehouse World San Diego, brought this topic up and they sawy they have never hears about it. Started hitting them with some facts, and then it comes out that Orange County Fire has been having the same suspension issue. They tried telling me their customer service is top notch just ask Orange County. I told them of coarse it is, you want a multi-year multi-apparatus contract so you will bend over backwards for them. We are just a department that buys a new engine every 10 years or so, so we are not on your radar. They were not thrilled after i told them that. And the electrical has been a nightmare. We WERE an e-one exclusive department but not anymore. Their quality and after purchase service has been non existent. We purchased and still have the very first Hurricane chassis they built back in 1984.

[Bones42]

No complaints here....1991 and 1995.

[Bdogg1]

2ivswo--You wouldn't be from Monrovia Fire would you?

[RW2400]

Funny thing how the first three letters of the poster are the same as the Pierce dealer in MO.

[DeputyChiefGonzo]

Was the rig speced properly to begin with?

Is it out of waranty?

Are there problems with the dealership?

[todd3603]

Funny thing how the first three letters of the poster are the same as the Pierce dealer in MO.

I am sure that sfrietag is not Assistant Chief Scott Frietag of the Cottleville Fire District and last time I checked, the first three letters of Schuhmacher Fire Equipment was SFE not SFR

[2ivswo]

Bdogg1, a little south and east of Monrovia. Does Monrovia have the same issues too? Who do you by chance work for? CaptainGonzo, yes it was out of warranty by a little over a year, but what does that matter? Two identicle rigs that came off the assembly line at the exact same time had the exact same suspension component failures and the manufacturer and the dealer shrugged us off?? If i was the manufacturer i would be getting ahold of the manufacturing records to see if there might be something wrong with the suspension supplier, poor manufacturing etc. etc. I would be worried about liability to top it off. The rigs only had 40,000 miles on them give or take 2-3,000 miles between the two of them. Now if the rig was 10 years old, been exposed to salt , freezing, dirt roads and the like i would consider it normal wear and tear. Mind you our 1988 e-ones have their original spring packs and components as well as our 2001 e-one HP75. And yes the rig was built to spec including the suspension according to e-one. And the electrical issues have been with all of our 2001 and newer rigs. This includes both type I's and type III's. Five units all together spanning from 2001 to 2007. It seems their quality has really gone down and service out here on the west coast is in the pooper.

[RW2400]

I stand corrected on the wrong info. I just talked to dealer and he said if anybody would like to talk to him he is more than happy to do so. He will tell you what has been done.....Example(Re-Painting of all the units etc..)

[Just a new name]

1990, 1995, 1998, 2008. No major problems. We have a pretty good dealer.

I really like our 2008 CII pumper. I think they have done a really good job with it. Sure all fire trucks have problems, it all about the dealer. (Most of the time.)

[FIREMECH1]

40,000 miles in less than 5 years, is alot of use and abuse (abuse not being the cause), on any rig. Unless your roads are as smooth as glass, those springs take alot of abuse, from both the streets and it's weight. As well, weather takes a toll on them also, if your in the snow.

I have over 10 E-One aerials, from 2001-2004, and they needed one or two leafs replaced after about 5 years. Only 3-4 have had to have the full spring packs replaced. Our roads are crap, and the winters with calcium chloride. brine, and rock salt, does take their toll on them.

As for electrical problems, we've only had a couple problems with dash control modules for the gauge clusters, and a few ROM light switches on the compartment doors. Otherwise, they are solid.

I am curious as to what electrical issues you are having with them.

FM1

[2ivswo]

FireMech1 this might be hard for people to understand when i say us out here in the southern part of Kalifornia rarely, if ever, see springs or suspension component failures. Our rigs have never seen the snow salted or brined roads. The coldest it gets here is maybe 25F in the winter and 110 in the summer. Like i said non of our other rigs have any problems. This is the second department i have worked. My former department had a fleet of 1989 Generals that all had on average 90,000 to 100000 miles on them and all original springs with no failures. Our wildland rigs take about ten times the suspension beatings and still no problems with them. Bottom line is e-one admitted to us that they have an issue with suspension components after their Orange County Fire comment. Notice recently someone posted Orange County's newest delivery was KME?? And the mileage when you break it down is about average. The first in area of both rigs have a freeway or two. One response on average with get you 10-15 miles with an average of one-two freeway calls a day. Further more they both at one time saw service at what we call our strike team station. One strike team will easily put between 400-800 miles on the rig depending on where in the state the fire is. We put just over 10,000 miles on our wildland rig last year in a span of 10 weeks. So yes that is a lot of miles but at minimum a quarter of that is freeway. As for electrical..... i dont know, driving code 3 so you think, getting dirty looks from people only to realize non of the front warning lights are working, ladder rack decided not to come down,(yes all the compartments were shut) AC would not turn off, all idiot lights on the dash come on at once including the audible alarm, arrow stick in the rear has a mind of its own on the newest one. I understand and expect a lemon in the fleet, but when they all have the same problem there is something wrong. Hence we will not be purchasing e-ones for a long time. They would of had another sale, but all these problems drove us to another manufacturer.

[RoofTopTrucky]

88 Hurricane engine
89 135' Ladder
97 Hush engine
07 Cyclone 2 engine
09 100' Supper Tiller (being built)

No complaints on any of them. THey have ALL been damn good rigs. Obvioulsy can't speek for the tiller, cause it's still being built. But we're looking forward to taking delivery.

All apparatus mfgs have their problem childs...some more than others. There was a company about 20 miles from me that had an ALF and had MAJOR issues with it. For the 5 years they had it it had only been in service a some a little over a year total. THey got the state AG's office involved and were able to have it replaced under the "Lemon Law" ALF ended up buying them a new Sutphen

[Just a new name]

nothing for nothing, I am always wary of low post count posters.

[2ivswo]

Rooftoptrucky our 1988 is a work horse that will not die. The old silver detroit 8v92 is a coal burner to say the least. Too bad they cant build them like that anymore. We just donated one of our other 88's and still have in reserve service the 1984 ORIGINAL Hurricane demo as in the first one E-one made. The two 2005's are what did us in. Really too bad because believe me i would love to have a standardized fleet. Do you by chance have any specs on that super tiller? When will it be delivered? Im kind of interested since i have yet to see one or hear from anyone that has one.

[mnfirecapt09]

My dept took delivery of an HP 75 in 2001. We had issues with 2 computers right off the bat which were resolved, and issues with the paint cracking. The truck was repainted 2 or 3 times at no expense to us. I believe a leaf spring was replaced last year on it also.

[sfreitag]

I would like an opportunity to discuss the rear suspension component that failed with you. We have the same trucks, only 2003's, and it sounds like the same type of failure. There are 7 of these trucks in the St. Louis Metro area. Six of seven have experienced the exact same failure of the rear spring pads causing the suspension to come loose. We have contacted NHTSA and they are looking into the issue and evaluating the spring pads, as well as trying to find more trucks with the same failures.

You can e-mail me direct at sfreitag@cottlevillefpd.org.

[sfreitag]

Was the rig speced properly to begin with?

Is it out of waranty?

Are there problems with the dealership?

The truck spec was written with the assistance of E-One.

We still have a warranty, at least until August. E-One had to come out within the first year. Because of all the issues, they extended the warranty for a year. In the second year, they had to come out again because of on going concerns. This time they offered us a "good deal" on anther three years of warranty making it five years of total warranty. They came out a third time in the fourth year to once again look at issues. At this point, it has become a he said she said type of thing. We just want reliable apparatus and quality service, neither of which we currently have.

Service and quality of work from the dealer has been an issue and has been brought to the attention of E-One on numerous occasions over the last five years. E-One is currently fixing the paint on the trucks, but we have been unable to come to a resolve on the more significant issues.

[sfreitag]

40,000 miles in less than 5 years, is alot of use and abuse (abuse not being the cause), on any rig. Unless your roads are as smooth as glass, those springs take alot of abuse, from both the streets and it's weight. As well, weather takes a toll on them also, if your in the snow.

I have over 10 E-One aerials, from 2001-2004, and they needed one or two leafs replaced after about 5 years. Only 3-4 have had to have the full spring packs replaced. Our roads are crap, and the winters with calcium chloride. brine, and rock salt, does take their toll on them.

As for electrical problems, we've only had a couple problems with dash control modules for the gauge clusters, and a few ROM light switches on the compartment doors. Otherwise, they are solid.

I am curious as to what electrical issues you are having with them.


FM1

More specifically, the generators were wired incorrectly so even with the trucks off, they were registering hours while sitting in the engine bay. We had A/C problems every year which they finally attributed, after four years, to having taken all grounds in the trucks to one lug. Once they found this issue, they divided the grounds to five lugs. The Tomar lights were wired incorrectly causing the wiring to rot and fall off. They re-wired them once at the dealer, but are beginning to do the same thing again. The rest of the problems are more minor i.e. lights going on and off, alarms sounding for no reason, warning lights flashing for no reason, etc.

In regards to the springs, the springs are fine. The spring pads are the issue. They used a hollow spring pad on the rear suspension of the trucks, they no longer use them. These pads crush over time and eventually come apart. This has happened to six of seven trucks in the St. Louis area. E-One has said that the failure is because we did not torque them every 90 days. The DOT shop we had perform the last repairs stated that there is no way to torque them without crushing the pads. We contacted NHTSA and they are currently looking at the problem and evaluating the pads we sent. The front suspension problems stem from E-One putting in a drive train that is too big for their chassis. In an effort to correct the issue, they shimmed the U-Bolts and installed them at an angle. Unfortunately, there is no way to keep the suspension properly placed tightened without significant time and cost involved.

[sfreitag]

Join the club. We have had nothing but electrical issues as well as suspension issues. Two of our 2005 Cyclone II's rear leaf springs had catastrophic failures one of them almost causing the rear end to fall out. E-one failed to compensate or let alone work with us regarding this matter. Saw them at their booth at Firehouse World San Diego, brought this topic up and they sawy they have never hears about it. Started hitting them with some facts, and then it comes out that Orange County Fire has been having the same suspension issue. They tried telling me their customer service is top notch just ask Orange County. I told them of coarse it is, you want a multi-year multi-apparatus contract so you will bend over backwards for them. We are just a department that buys a new engine every 10 years or so, so we are not on your radar. They were not thrilled after i told them that. And the electrical has been a nightmare. We WERE an e-one exclusive department but not anymore. Their quality and after purchase service has been non existent. We purchased and still have the very first Hurricane chassis they built back in 1984.

I would like an opportunity to discuss the rear suspension component that failed with you. We have the same trucks, only 2003's, and it sounds like the same type of failure. There are 7 of these trucks in the St. Louis Metro area. Six of seven have experienced the exact same failure of the rear spring pads causing the suspension to come loose. We have contacted NHTSA and they are looking into the issue and evaluating the spring pads, as well as trying to find more trucks with the same failures.

You can e-mail me direct at sfreitag@cottlevillefpd.org.