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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rescue101 View Post
    Kinda what I was alluding to.I think it MAY have been a sensor problem but the crews safety trumps whatever little safety hazard may be created by running it in RPM by an experienced D/O. T.C.
    TC

    I have my sources that say it is not your first time at the dance... (Not just the observations on here but people in New England....)

    In fact, one of the sources was the person that explained the pressure vs. rpm mode to me. The other posts on here from time to time and tweeks you.

    I work for Big Blue in a maintenance group and see computers and sensors behaving poorly pretty regularly. People must understand and want to understand more on how things work and don't work. The electronic age of controlling vehicles is here and you probably will not see it go back. When lives are on the line, you can't just say I pushed the button and it did not work... you need to know the signs and recognize it is time to get plan B in motion...RIGHT NOW.


  2. #22
    Forum Member Rescue101's Avatar
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    Agreed.But this curiousity factor seems to be waning.At the time,the need to get water to the attack crews was a higher priority than checking sensors.So I did what needed to be done for that to happen.Wasn't my rig so I don't know what was found on inspection post incident.In talking to others with similar systems,several have experienced similar problems. So isolated,it isn't.Applying the KISS principle,train and test with your equipment often.Know what it does when you do various operations.But know that you CAN use RPM mode when all else fails.And everybody will still go home. T.C.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rescue101 View Post
    Agreed.But this curiousity factor seems to be waning.At the time,the need to get water to the attack crews was a higher priority than checking sensors.So I did what needed to be done for that to happen.Wasn't my rig so I don't know what was found on inspection post incident.In talking to others with similar systems,several have experienced similar problems. So isolated,it isn't.Applying the KISS principle,train and test with your equipment often.Know what it does when you do various operations.But know that you CAN use RPM mode when all else fails.And everybody will still go home. T.C.

    TC,

    I think you hit the nail on the head! Training, Training, and more Training!!! Then train some more! With all the electronics that are on the apparatus today we do not train the operators to know what to do when something goes wrong, or how to over come a problem! The sensors used on the governor's today can pick up dirt and debris, which can affect the operation of the governor's. I have also found also (after replacing the sensor for the third time in a period of a year) that you should operate your pumps on a weekly basis at a minimum to prevent this from happening. I know of several manufacturers that have moved the sensor from the pump (pressure side) to a remote location to take care of some the “wide fluctuations in pressure” that where occurring while in pump operations.

    Mark

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rescue101 View Post
    Had a structure fire in a neighboring town.Attack Engine was set on PSI being fed by a 3000 gallon Pumper/tanker thru a 4" line.Everytime the attack Engine "sensed"an incoming fluctuation it went to dead idle.Damn near burned up two interior crews.Might have been a bad sensor,I don't know.I switched the Attack to RPM,problem went away,we put the fire out and went home.Still comes down to a skilled Pump operator,which are getting scarcer.
    Was the tanker in PSI mode? I know every brand is different, but Class1 recommends that the source rig be in RPM mode. This doesn't sound like the case, but two rigs in PSI mode will "chase" each other and they react to each other's changes. Also, Class1s are set to warn of a low supply when incoming pressure drops below 30. I've seen this happen a LOT at the school when we are running two different evolutions on the same hydrant line and there's a big flux in water usage. Incoming pressure drops below 30 and it warns "low supply" and "operator" for 10 seconds and if the problem is not solved it shuts down to protect itself. Personally, I think that's too high to set the low supply warning, but what do I know, I just use the things for a living.
    I may speak gibberish, but I don't talk s***! -- Dropkick Murphys

  5. #25
    Forum Member Rescue101's Avatar
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    As I recall it was but it was a night full of trouble.15 below,water source(usual)frozen solid,fire in two areas of the home,100 gallon LP cylinders exposed,explosions in the building,limited access and then Governor issues.Just one of those deals that wasn't going to have a happy ending.But no one got hurt so it wasn't all bad. T.C.

  6. #26
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    There are some days, or nights, that Mr. Murphy climbs on your shoulder and whisper's in your ear "I'm here". And it's all downhill from there. Happened to me a few months ago on fire in a dormitory, everything the could go wrong did.

  7. #27
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    Doing some thinking the other day I can see some serious dangers associated with -EDIT-PSI mode in the event of a burst line or a pressure relief (on a receiving engine pump panel intake or an aerial relief valve) valve popping causing the governor to speed the engine up and trying to maintain the pressure.

    I can see the point about having the source engines in RPM, I also see this is probably a necessity in relay in order to prevent all the pumps from fighting each other. In a relay, I am thinking the only rig that need be in PSI mode would be the attack end engine?

    Anyone have any thoughts on these thoughts of mine?
    Last edited by MG3610; 07-28-2009 at 04:54 PM.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by MG3610 View Post
    Doing some thinking the other day I can see some serious dangers associated with RPM mode in the event of a burst line or a pressure relief (on a receiving engine pump panel intake or an aerial relief valve) valve popping causing the governor to speed the engine up and trying to maintain the pressure.

    I can see the point about having the source engines in RPM, I also see this is probably a necessity in relay in order to prevent all the pumps from fighting each other. In a relay, I am thinking the only rig that need be in PSI mode would be the attack end engine?

    Anyone have any thoughts on these thoughts of mine?
    MG3610,

    Class 1 tells you in there instruction video that only the first engine in the relay should be in PSI mode, all others should be in RPM.

    Chief1ff

    Mark

  9. #29
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    Default Governor RPM Mode

    "And in PSI mode you can get wide fluctuations in pressure if you have a incoming feed line particularly from another pumper or nurse tanker.Better to use rpm in those instances. T.C."

    The above issue was one we struggled with and with some help from Class 1 we figured it out. Tankers are used extensively in my FD, and are equipped with governors as well as the engines. We instruct our engineers to utilize RPM mode unless thay are the attack engine - actually pumping handlines, ladderpipe, fdc, etc. The attack engine must provide pressure control (PSI mode) but this is not required of supply apparatus. In fact, a governor eqipped tanker supplying a governor equipped engine both in PSI will induce oscillations in the pressure of both engines. It's like to governors are constantly adjusting to compensate for the other one doing the same thing. It's weird, but we stopped it with the procedure I described above.

    We also instruct engineers to use RPM mode when:

    Drafting (until a draft is established then change to PSI mode)
    Charging LDH hose (when charged change to PSI if you are the attack engine)
    Supplying another engine in relay
    When pumping with low residual pressure (less than 10, and I know what NFPA says about this)

    I would like to add that we have been thrilled with the FRC Pump Boss. The Class 1 Captain has been quite challenging, but once our folks get to know the quirks they do fine with them.

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