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    Default Is it worth the risk?

    From Billy G's website...

    OHIO FIRE APPARATUS FIRE

    Wednesday, July 22, 2009- The Higginsport Fire Department is down an engine following an incident that occurred on Saturday, July 12 involving a 2006 International 7400 pumper truck.

    According to reports from the Ohio State Highway Patrol Georgetown Post, Higginsport Fire Department member Rhonda Frazier was driving one of the department’s trucks southbound on Free Soil Road when she noticed that she had lost pressure in the engine’s brake system about a half a mile north of Old A and P Road. Frazier heard a loud explosion and suspected a tire had blown.

    As Frazier turned left on Old A and P Road, she noticed the vehicle was smoking. She came to a stop and saw the underside of the vehicle was on fire. The vehicle became fully engulfed a short time later.

    Georgetown, Ripley, and Higginsport responded to the fire, which consumed most of the vehicle before it was extinguished. The truck sustained severe damage from the cab back due to the blaze.

    Neither Frazier or her passenger, an 8-year-old Ripley female, were injured in the blaze. According to fire department member Grace Copple, the truck has been taken to a garage in Kentucky to see if it can be salvaged.

    The Russellville Fire Department has loaned Higginsport a tanker so they can still respond to fires. Higginsport also still has two pumper trucks and a brush unit in the department.

    The fire remains under investigation.
    Not to sound judgmental, but is it worth the risk having an 8-year old in a fire apparatus?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Catch22 View Post
    From Billy G's website...

    Not to sound judgmental, but is it worth the risk having an 8-year old in a fire apparatus?
    If they don't need a booster seat, probably a pretty safe place to be.
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

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    ummm...because this one time a fire truck caught on fire?



    For volly depts. if a member is taking the truck to the dealer or for some sort of out of service thing and they want to bring their kid along let them. The kid loves it and its just an "incentive" for a person giving up a day to do some boring task for the FD. Granted I dont know what the truck was out for, but come on a truck catches on fire with a kid in it and you act like its dangerous. These trucks are built to be very safe now, these aren't like the older trucks.

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    Since it doesn't mention what they were doing, I'm reserving any assumptions. Maybe I've seen too many stories of apparatus crashing lately, and it keeps popping in my head the possibility they were responding to a call.

    I'll be the first to admit I've taken kids on short jaunts in our apparatus, including my own. I just thought it might make for an interesting discussion and maybe some more info would come out on whether they were on a maintenance run, emergency call, training session, or what.

    Oh, and it's more than just one firetruck catching on fire. As I mentioned, there's stories abound over the last few months of apparatus involved in MVA's. This incident, albeit a fire, happened to have a civilian (a minor at that) riding in it. This is one of those incidents that could have ended up bad.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Catch22 View Post
    Since it doesn't mention what they were doing, I'm reserving any assumptions. Maybe I've seen too many stories of apparatus crashing lately, and it keeps popping in my head the possibility they were responding to a call.

    I'll be the first to admit I've taken kids on short jaunts in our apparatus, including my own. I just thought it might make for an interesting discussion and maybe some more info would come out on whether they were on a maintenance run, emergency call, training session, or what.

    Oh, and it's more than just one firetruck catching on fire. As I mentioned, there's stories abound over the last few months of apparatus involved in MVA's. This incident, albeit a fire, happened to have a civilian (a minor at that) riding in it. This is one of those incidents that could have ended up bad.

    If they were going to an emergency call, then it was inappropriate.
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

    "The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list."

    "When tempted to fight fire with fire, remember that the Fire Department usually uses water."

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    im going to talk as if it was an out of service trip, since anyone taking an 8 year old on and emergency run in a fire apparatus is crazy.


    crashes, fires and such happen in all other vehicles, so why should a fire apparatus be some forbidden zone? If I drive dump truck and want to show my kid what I do at work I shouldn't take him for a ride in my truck? What about tractor trailer drivers, they can't take their kids for a ride in their rig?

    Out of service trip going to the shop or something else shouldn't be a problem. The adult should be able to control their own kid and keep them in check.

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    I grew up in the firehouse. I was there all the time with my dad, grandfather or uncles. Some of the best memories of my life come from that building. Just the smell of the place takes me back.

    That said, the first time I was ever in a moving apparatus was after I was in the department. They, nor anyone else in the department, ever allowed a minor non-member to be in the apparatus when it was moving; for an emergency call, parade, drill, fun ride, or any other purpose. It's a fire apparatus, not an amusement ride.

    That's the way it should be. God bless my Dad.
    PROUD, HONORED AND HUMBLED RECIPIENT OF THE PURPLE HYDRANT AWARD - 10/2007.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI View Post
    It's a fire apparatus, not an amusement ride.

    That's the way it should be. God bless my Dad.

    ok, it shouldn't be in parades either. Its a fire apparatus, not a spectacle to be gawked at. I don't know what a fun ride is either, but a fire apparatus doesn't go on those either.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nameless View Post
    ok, it shouldn't be in parades either. Its a fire apparatus, not a spectacle to be gawked at. I don't know what a fun ride is either, but a fire apparatus doesn't go on those either.
    You would get no argument from me that parades (especially in North Jersey) are out of control. However, if it is done in a safe and professional manner, there is great value to the marketing opportunity that parades present.

    My FD doesn't do "fun rides" but there are FD's who do. There is a FD in Morris County that routinely loads their apparatus with kids and rides them Code 3 through the center of town as part of their carnival. Yes. It is wrong.

    And the gawking thing? I guess you don't have many buffs out your way, huh?
    PROUD, HONORED AND HUMBLED RECIPIENT OF THE PURPLE HYDRANT AWARD - 10/2007.

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    I don't care if they come to gawk while its in quarters or they see us out and about on a run...

    ...but if you are going to make the claim that a guy volunteering to take a truck to the dealer's for PM or some other menial task can't take his kid with him on the ride because its not an amusement ride, I'd say the truck isn't a spectacle to be paraded about.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nameless View Post
    I don't care if they come to gawk while its in quarters or they see us out and about on a run...

    ...but if you are going to make the claim that a guy volunteering to take a truck to the dealer's for PM or some other menial task can't take his kid with him on the ride because its not an amusement ride, I'd say the truck isn't a spectacle to be paraded about.
    You are comparing apples to oranges. Children do not belong on a moving fire apparatus for any reason. None whatsoever.
    PROUD, HONORED AND HUMBLED RECIPIENT OF THE PURPLE HYDRANT AWARD - 10/2007.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI View Post
    You are comparing apples to oranges. Children do not belong on a moving fire apparatus for any reason. None whatsoever.

    why?


    so spending taxpayer money on frivolous parades is ok, but a child tagging along on an out of service drive is unacceptable?

    There is nothing about a modern fire truck that makes it unsuitable for a child to ride in.

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    Since they don't indicate whether this was just a routine go get fuel, taking the truck to the shop or an emergency call it is hard to say. We have a zero tolerance for bringing kids to the scene. However, we also let them ride in the rigs for parades, and such.

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    so spending taxpayer money on frivolous parades is ok, but a child tagging along on an out of service drive is unacceptable?
    This again, is apples and oranges. Try to formulate a cogent argument and get back to me.
    PROUD, HONORED AND HUMBLED RECIPIENT OF THE PURPLE HYDRANT AWARD - 10/2007.

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    way to dodge the question. Perhaps you could give a reasoning for your OPINION and then we can continue the conversation, or you could just continue to use your current childish side step.

    so answer the questions, why should a child never been in a moving fire apparatus?

    if I own my own fire apparatus can my child ride in it? or does this violate your edict of no kids in fire trucks?

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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI View Post
    You are comparing apples to oranges. Children do not belong on a moving fire apparatus for any reason. None whatsoever.
    I think if it's out of service and they wear their seatbelt, I see no harm.

    That said, it depends on the policy of the jurisdiction with control of that apparatus as well.

    We don't routinely do it, but when I was a kid, I got rides with my dad at times.

    I know that when I had a Chief's car, I think I took my wife in it once or twice (for an official event). Any other time, we took POV.

    .
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

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    One of the most well known and appreciated public events my Department (and 3 others nearby) performs is a Handicapped Childrens parade hosted by our local Elks Lodge. Kids are taken on boat rides by fishing boats donating their morning to the event, they are then picked up and given a ride on the fire apparatus, they are then brought to the Elks Lodge for an afternoon picnic.

    Every Thursday during the summer, we have up to 6 kids on an engine and my sister company has the same. We give them a ride up to watch fireworks while their fathers are there on standby. We send 2 engines from each station. 1 is a duty crew (FF's only) and the other has the kids. No, the one with kids does not respond to calls.

    One weekend in September, every year, local Elks Lodge holds a tube race in the ocean, along with a parade. Another big PR event and Yes, the FD has their apparatus in the parade and there are kids on them. Duty trucks have FF's only.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    As a testament to this thread, I now own the very first fire truck I ever rode on- a 1958 FWD pumper, which my father took me to my first (of many many) parade on when I was three and a half, back in 19xx

    From that point in time, I went to so many parades up until I became an official member when I turned 16. Dad was (still is in fact) the Engineer, so there were all the times he had to take the trucks to maintenance, or pump tests, or whatever. I probably had more mileage in firetrucks than I did in Mom or Dad's cars.

    But that was back then. It was sort of almost expected, maybe even an unwritten rule, that firemen's sons were ok to ride. Did I ever go to a fire? I can think of twice when it happened- once we were at a parade, and there was a brush run which was pretty big....I sat in the cab and was DARED to come out...The other was a car fire that was dispatched while we were coming back from a fuel run. Same thing- DO NOT MOVE!

    But what about today's litigious society?

    Just this past 4th of July, Grandpa practically demanded that his grandsons (and me!) accompany him on a parade. They were both seated inside a fully enclosed cab and wore seatbelts the whole time (a hell of a lot more protection that I ever had....)

    Is it worth the risk? I certainly dont advocate taking children on an emergency run. But parades and the like, with proper seating and protection, why not? If it gets the fire service into their heads before exhaust FUMES and perFUMES, and gets them interested enough to want to join, it's an added bonus.

    (oh and by the way that 1958 FWD has had seatbelts installed for the little FWDbuffs.....)
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    The family members of the duty crew on Labor Day are allowed to ride in the rigs for the Laboer Day Parade. There murt be an responsible adult with them, and they know that if there is a fire (we do have the reserve rigs covered while the parade is going on), we will drop them off wherever the parade happens to be at the time and they will have to walk back to HQ.

    In all of the years of the parade, there has only been 1 structure fire.. and now that I have said that, I just jinxed my group.. as we are workiung Labor Day...
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
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    It is my personal belief that children do not belong on a moving fire apparatus ever. I believe the danger does not outweigh the risk. I believe the seat belt issue is one issue that exactly makes it dangerous. The seat belts on a fire apparatus are different than the seatbelts in a car. Seat belts on the apparatus are designed solely for the use of adults. They are not appropriate for children. This is but one example.

    That is my opinion. Although I believe your opinion is wrong, I did not insult you or the opinion. If you cannot accept that I have this opinion, I will state my usual opinion that you can go to hell.
    PROUD, HONORED AND HUMBLED RECIPIENT OF THE PURPLE HYDRANT AWARD - 10/2007.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI View Post
    That is my opinion. Although I believe your opinion is wrong, I did not insult you or the opinion. If you cannot accept that I have this opinion, I will state my usual opinion that you can go to hell.
    It is of my opinion that you can take your opinion and stick it up your sphincter sideways!......
    "Loyalty Above all Else. Except Honor."

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    Quote Originally Posted by FWDbuff View Post
    It is of my opinion that you can take your opinion and stick it up your sphincter sideways!......
    I didn't insult you or your opinion either.
    PROUD, HONORED AND HUMBLED RECIPIENT OF THE PURPLE HYDRANT AWARD - 10/2007.

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    Some of you are really gonna love this- when i was a kid, during the greater part of the 80s, it was common at company picknicks, parties, holidays, parades, etc.... to pile everybodies kids on the hose bed of the 75' mack with a few adults and go for a ride around town. eventually times did change when they got a new pierce in the early 90s and started having everybody ride in the cab. to my knowledge they still take the kids out for rides. Some of my favorite childhood memories are of playing on that 75' mack. If i recall right nobody ever got hurt, but then again that was when scraped knees, bruises, being dirty and playing outside was a common thing for kids.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI View Post
    That is my opinion. Although I believe your opinion is wrong, I did not insult you or the opinion. If you cannot accept that I have this opinion, I will state my usual opinion that you can go to hell.
    Well said.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI View Post
    I didn't insult you or your opinion either.
    Ok you dont have to stick it sideways, just straight up and down.
    "Loyalty Above all Else. Except Honor."

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