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    Default Parking deck fires

    Does anyone have links for this topic as far as tactics in parking deck fires. I would appriciate them. We have a new deck going up in my city and I want to have my guys ready.

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    Be aware of spalling concrete blowing out explosively if its very hot and you hit it with water.

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    Don't buy any special apparatus for it. You will never use it.

    I hear that from time to time. You know, let's get a pickup and mount this or that in it.

    We use a parking deck in town for standpipe drills. We actually charge the system and flow water. It's a great drill.

    .
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

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    I don't have a link but some things for you to think of....

    - gas tanks can leak...... don't be in the flow of burning fuel
    - use standard responses as you would in a typical structural fire
    - pick the best place to stretch according to wind direction, slope of deck, and access points
    - wind is a big factor due to these not being buttoned up like a building, lots of them do not have windows in place.
    -if above grade 4 or more stories use the standpipe
    - 3rd story or below try to stretch from the rig
    - train on them, see if you can flow water by asking the business if you can hold a drill there.
    - b foam is good if available just in case of a fluid fire
    -use good standard tactics as you approach the car (like a normal car fire) bumper shocks and magnesium issues should be addressed
    Originally Posted by madden01
    "and everyone is encouraged to use Plain, Spelled Out English. I thought this was covered in NIMS training."

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    IF it has a standpipe, obviously use it.

    Another option if available, is to use a truck company (pref a tower) that has a discharge on the end of the ladder/bucket, and use a line from that. We have practiced it a few times, but have had the need to use it. Essentially, you are using the apparatus as a standpipe.
    A Fire Chief has ONLY 1 JOB and that's to take care of his fireman. EVERYTHING else falls under this.

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    KISS!

    If a standpipe isn't available, don't waste your time trying to stretch up through the floors. Keep It Simple Stupid. Take a rope bag with you and hoist the damn hose up to the floor you're working on.

    The time it takes you to get an aerial on scene + set up and flowing water, the car will be just about out anyways.... Assuming it's not next to 3 or 4 more
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    Quote Originally Posted by JTFIRE80 View Post
    IF it has a standpipe, obviously use it.

    Another option if available, is to use a truck company (pref a tower) that has a discharge on the end of the ladder/bucket, and use a line from that. We have practiced it a few times, but have had the need to use it. Essentially, you are using the apparatus as a standpipe.
    What parameters do you use when talking about standpipe use? What about 1st floor fires in standpiped parking garages?

    I know I allow my company to use it due to the simplicity of a easy stretch from the rig.

    As far as the aerial, I wouldn't use it unless just 2 guys showed up and it is what they rode in on.
    Originally Posted by madden01
    "and everyone is encouraged to use Plain, Spelled Out English. I thought this was covered in NIMS training."

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    If you have a car on fire with exposures, open up the line and apply the water to the ceiling, in effect creating a giant sprinkler head.. then put a second line into operation to extinguish... both lines can mop up afterwards.
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
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    Also keep in mind that parking garages may not be the most well kept structures when it comes to stand pipes and fire equipment. The stuff is all outdoors, exposed to high traffic general public 24/7, and home to bums once the sun sets.

    At my previous employer, there was a car fire that on any other day would have been pretty simple to handle. The garage has a dry system that protects the elevator lobbies and stairwells and supplies a standpipe system. Well some numbnuts from maintenance shut the whole damn thing off and never turned it back on.. The fire was on the 6th level of the garage. They ended up having to drop 3" line down vertically off the side and pump it up to the deck. Needless to say, there wasn't much left of the car by the time that was put into operation.

    I think I still have the pictures from the security cameras. Flammbe de Auto.
    Last edited by nmfire; 07-24-2009 at 12:38 AM.
    Even the burger-flippers at McDonald's probably have some McWackers.

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    nmfire... we had a similar thing when we went to train but the maintenance guys just left ALL of the lowpoint drains opened from the winterizing session 5 months earlier. needless to say there wasn't a whole lot of pressure left in the 4 story system.
    Originally Posted by madden01
    "and everyone is encouraged to use Plain, Spelled Out English. I thought this was covered in NIMS training."

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    OOOOH! I found the pictures I pulled off the cameras!
    Attached Images Attached Images      
    Even the burger-flippers at McDonald's probably have some McWackers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nmfire View Post
    OOOOH! I found the pictures I pulled off the cameras!
    I love this thread. This is what this site should be about.

    Nice pictures, great discussion.
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

    "The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list."

    "When tempted to fight fire with fire, remember that the Fire Department usually uses water."

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    Quote Originally Posted by nmfire View Post
    OOOOH! I found the pictures I pulled off the cameras!
    Wow 16 minutes and the car still wasn't fully engulfed. That suprises me I would have thought it would have gone up much faster. Any of you guys using CAFS for a carfire. We have been using it on them for the last couple of years and it works great. Couple of weeks ago we put out a 78 Cadaliac with around 250 gallons of H2O.

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    O.K. - here are some of my "random" thoughts - some of which have been directly (or indirectly) covered already.

    Specific to parking Structures (above or below ground)
    - Fuel tanks can rupture & gas flows down hill. Plan to be out of the way & plan for that to create new exposures.
    - Water flows down hill also (runoff = Haz-Mat soup so where's it going?).
    - Gas is lighter than water & burning fuel floats on water.
    - All the same issues with sprinklers & standpipes still apply and may be worse (as I think my colleagues have pretty well covered).
    - As mentioned already - above ground structures may have wind related issues - on the opposite side of the coin - underground or fully enclosed structures my present with ventilation issues.

    General to any parking area
    - If you have 1 car on fire - expect to find 3 cars (or more) on fire (or plan for exposures).

    And plain old general vehicle fires.
    - Every vehicle fire is a Haz-Mat incident.
    - People carry ANYTHING and EVERYTHING in their vehicles - expect the unexpected always.
    - Remember safe approach angles for bumpers, struts, etc and also remember some SRS components are powered by pressurized canisters that will also fail/explode.
    - Be careful during overhaul - some of the "unexpected" vehicle contents and SRS components may have been weakened by the fire but haven't failed (yet). Beware what you poke with sharp sticks!


    Most of all - be safe.
    Take Care - Stay Safe - God Bless
    Stephen
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    Quote Originally Posted by N2DFire View Post
    - Be careful during overhaul - some of the "unexpected" vehicle contents and SRS components may have been weakened by the fire but haven't failed (yet). Beware what you poke with sharp sticks!


    http://firefighterclosecalls.com/fullstory.php?86149
    Originally Posted by madden01
    "and everyone is encouraged to use Plain, Spelled Out English. I thought this was covered in NIMS training."

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    A department (Fairfax VA, i think) ran some senerios a few years back and tested what was the most effective way to deploy a line for a parking deck fire. I did a quick Google search for it with no luck, but it's probably out there somewhere. I think their results showed that hoisting a line with a utility rope was the fastest.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FireStick View Post
    A department (Fairfax VA, i think) ran some senerios a few years back and tested what was the most effective way to deploy a line for a parking deck fire. I did a quick Google search for it with no luck, but it's probably out there somewhere. I think their results showed that hoisting a line with a utility rope was the fastest.
    The fastest I'm sure, and one of the least employed. It seems everyone wants to use standpipes, aerial outlets and fancy methods when all you need is a piece of rope and a hosebed that contains enough hose to reach the fire.

    For antone who's never seen them, FDNY has a nice bleach bottle rope drop bucket they use. Its simple. Cut the area out of the top of a bleach bottle from just below the neck (opposite the handle). Youll have an opening that keeps the top spout and handle intact and allows you to load some utility rope into the cylindrical part of the bucket. hard to explain, I'll try to get a pic next week.

    The rope fills the bucket and comes out the top opening (original spout) with a clasp (dog leash, cheap carabiner etc). To deploy, you hold the end of the rope that comes out the top of the container and drop the container to the ground. The ff on the ground pulls the remaining rope out and ties/clips it to the hose and away you go. The rope can then be used to tie the hose off to the railing to prevent it from pulling back over and down once charged.

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    The bleach bottle is a great tool. we carry ropes (no they are not life safety certified) but are used for multiple tasks such as hoisting. Either is a good way.

    We found the well stretch in the parking garages work a little better if you are using a flat load (we usally do the improvised minuteman) when going to garages vertically. That way, you are not pulling the hose by hand strength up to where you need it and creating the friction point as it rubs on the wall edge. We do have rollers but have found them problematic on the concrete wall edges.

    If you brought your hosepack up to the level and then did the rope strech with the feeder line that could be a good way.

    My opinion is that if you have a garage go and get permission to train in it and find the best optionS that work for your company and your districts hazards.
    Originally Posted by madden01
    "and everyone is encouraged to use Plain, Spelled Out English. I thought this was covered in NIMS training."

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