1. #26
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    Seen varieties of these previously. Theyve not posed any problem as yet during door opening ops.
    Developer and Sr. Presenter, Team Xtreme
    BIG RIG RESCUE

  2. #27
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    What if gaining access to the battery is difficult to impossible? How much effort do you spend on DCing power before beginning extrication of the patient? Thanks!

  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by CFD527 View Post
    What if gaining access to the battery is difficult to impossible? How much effort do you spend on DCing power before beginning extrication of the patient? Thanks!

    First of all I am an advocate of disconnecting every battery on every scene!!

    This question arises many times, and there is going to be a time that it is impossible to disconnect the battery. We see this quit often in the scenarios we do in Billy’s Big Rig Rescue classes, many times in a car vs truck under ride situation for example the truck tire will be positioned directly on top of the battery.
    With today’s vehicles being equipped with 6-12 airbags that can be located in 16 different locations we must be able to make informed decisions about the situation facing us at a given moment. Many have commented that I teach too dept into these systems, that rescuers do not need that much information, but I have learned that if we know 5 things about these systems we can make an informed decision about any situation facing us at that given moment.

    1. Know what is out there, (we must keep abreast of the systems that are being used in today’s vehicles).

    2. Know what its purpose is, (Know what it was designed to do).

    3. Know how it works (examples: if a vehicle is hit in the lift side the right side impact airbags will not deploy, know how the impulse gets from the crash sensor to the airbag).

    4. Know what makes it work, (Most importantly know what each sensor in the system does and what changes each sensor can make in the system). As long as there is any electrical currant in that vehicle the control module will constantly monitor each sensor in the system for any change and make the proper adjustments to the deployment path. (Example: if the passenger seat was empty at the time of the crash the passenger frontal airbag would not have deployed, but with the battery still intact if a rescuer was to put weight on the seat the control module would open the path for an airbag deployment. Note the airbag would not deploy because the impulse was not there at the same time as all the others, but if we were to short circuit a wire it could very will deploy.

    5. Know where these components are generally located. (these sensors are for the most part hidden in the seat cushions, under the seat, and even in the trunk). We need to know the general locations of the different types of sensors.

    Many times our own training can get us in trouble. (Example: if the passenger was asleep and leaning on the door the right side impact airbag on many cars would not have deployed, because the occupant position sensor would have turned it off, but as we are thought the first thing a rescuer would do is hold C spine, with the battery in tact as we straighten the victims body the control module would open the path for that airbag to deploy if a currant was sent back through the system.
    In answer to the question in a situation were it is impossible to disconnect the electrical system, we must learn to work WITH the system instead of AROUND the system.
    http://www.midsouthrescue.org
    Is it time to change our training yet ?

  4. #29
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    Arrow Take heed

    Please take heed, as Lee has offered some valuable advice.

  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by rmoore View Post
    Hey Firedog7 & domi411;

    I think you're over-reacting to that door interlock thing you guys posted. The component on the door is generically called the striker and the component on the body of the vehicle is either called the receiver or the latch. They really aren't a big deal; aren't going to present a problem at an incident scene like you would get from a Nader-type safety latch system.

    Firedog, the BMW system will not "lock" as you said so I wouldn't explain or teach it that way. If you look closely, the design is intended to have the striker hold it's position within the receiver opening if a broadside collision is occurring and the B-pillar and door are bending inward. The design is to hold the door shut while this is happening. A rescuer who has opened the door at either the hinges or the latch should not encounter any obstacle due to this system because when the door is that far open at the latch or off at the hinges, the interlock just moves apart like it's not even there.

    domi411, you posted some nice images of the original style striker and latch system which as you noted is a GM thing. But once again, there is not any locking, latching, or connecting that will cause any issue when forcing the real door latch assembly apart in an entrapment situation.

    I believe it's a Nice-to-Know thing about car doors but not really a Need-To-Know thing as far as opening jammed doors is concerned. I don't want rescuers thinking that these doors have two 'latches' and have two places that they have to be forced open. They don't. Besides, these systems have been around in vehicle since the Baretta and the Crosica were in new car showrooms and no one has ever, ever, ever said they were an issue. at a Real-world incident.
    You're right Ron, the have no locking system on this, but if a side impact occured and when you spread the door, she don't open in the right angle, the door will be hold by this system. So i think you CAN have more problem to open that door.

    It not the same with sliding side door, because most of them have 2 locking natch, one in the front and one in the back.

  6. #31
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    I have a theory on disabling air bags.First,disconnect both positive and negative cables.Touch both cables together five(5) time constants.A time constant means touch cables,release,touch cables ,five times.This works in electronics to dicharge capactors in a circuit.Again this is just a theory so DO NOT try this at home.

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