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    Default What is your definition?

    What is your personal definition of "Brotherhood" within a Fire Department?

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    A word used too often, by too many, for lots of wrong reasons.

    And No, I don't use it.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    If you have to ask,obviously you haven't found it yet.

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    Before I bite, are you asking to prove a point or because you don’t know?

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    Quote Originally Posted by KevinFFVFD View Post
    Before I bite, are you asking to prove a point or because you don’t know?
    KevinFFVFD, No my opinion of the definition is "A group of individuals acting together as one for a common goal for success."

    To further explain my question the word "Brotherhood" was written at the top of the Dry Erase Board in the meeting room by who I don't know and was there for some extended period of time was erased by also who I don't know. When it was erased was prior to Officer elections which this term seemed to be a witch hunt more than ever by members who in accordance with the deparments by laws were not elligable to hold office and/or vote. I am a third generation firefighter with 30+ years in the fire service and have always supported the Chief and other officers to the extreme which was the way I was taught. The department has inhearantly been in a way split in this manner and feels like when its letters were erased from the board the "Brotherhood" per say left also.

    The line from the movie Backdraft, "Your Go, We Go" which has always stuck with me and in which I lived and faught fire by even before it was stated in the movie does not seem to be the attitude of some of our members.

    I was just wanting to get some outside opinions of other members of other deparments to post at our station and hopfully wake up our members...

    Stay Safe...

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    First off let me commend you on your service. I am 4th generation firefighter, but I have only been in it for about 2 ½ years.

    Brotherhood……it is a term in my opinion that is thrown around and used in way too many wrong ways. You see it on t shirts, tattoos, hats, car stickers, etc. I fell that the “true brotherhood” that was once shared by firefighters years and years ago is dying. What do I mean by this? I will give you an example….

    My father is writing a book on the history of the Vicksburg (MS) Fire Department. I often flip through all of the photos and articles he has collected dating back to 1900 (and a few articles from before then I believe). I look at all of these photos of these “old time” firefighters and you can just see the pride in them. These men were the true definition of “firefighter”. These men were so dedicated to the job that they would work 23 hours a day, with one hour to go home for dinner, 7 days a week. Their fire engines were always clean. Their station was always clean. There was no room for cowardice. They were 100% dedicated “balls to the wall” firefighters. This is the way most fire departments of the time carried themselves.

    Today however there is a different story. There are firefighters out there who are 100% dedication. They train, pull shift work, clean and inspect their equipment, clean the station, are the first in at a fire, and so forth. There are firefighters who do all of this without one complaint.

    However, there are those who bitch and complain and pull the discrimination card because you told them take out the trash, clean the toilets, clean up after meals and so forth. You have people who join the department not because they want brotherhood, or the pride, or the will to help. They do it because they needed a job and one day decided to put in an application at the fire department because they couldn’t get a job anywhere else and they figured it would be easy. They have no idea what it takes to be a good firefighter. So when they walk in the door and somebody is telling them to clean this, clean that, do this, do that, roll the hose, wash that truck and so forth they don’t understand that it is part of becoming a firefighter and do not understand the traditions. So instead of learning their job and the traditions they decided to fight it and end up screwing things up.

    The only people to truly blame for the reason there is a lack of brotherhood and tradition are the veteran firefighters who have been there 15, 20, 25, 30 years. You have firefighters who are lazy. They bitch because they have to train, they bitch because they have to do paperwork, they bitch because they got dispatched to call and they don’t want to roll their *** out of the lazy-boy watching their favorite TV show. They are the ones that the new firefighters look at and figure if the veterans can act like then so can they. If you have a good crew it is because they have good leaders. If you have a lazy crew it is because you have lazy leaders.

    This goes for both career and volunteers. There are a lot of people who want to join a volunteer department because it allows them to play hero. They want to put on the gear, ride the big truck, fight the big fire and that’s it. They don’t want to do anything else. They don’t want to take the time to do any cleaning, paperwork, training or fundraising.
    Last edited by KevinFFVFD; 07-31-2009 at 04:46 AM.

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    Nail on the head, Kevin.
    Just another one of the 99%ers looking up.

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    Kevin, Thank you so much and may I say that my opinion is alot the same as yours and such opinions are what I am seeking. PS... Please keep me in mind at such time you father completes his book I would love to get my hands on a copy of it.

    Stay Safe.
    William C. Allison II
    Fire Captain
    Tazewell County Fire-Rescue

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    Quote Originally Posted by tcfrmedic2 View Post
    What is your personal definition of "Brotherhood" within a Fire Department?
    It's BS.

    Same origin as wearing hat backwards, pants hanging off ***, car drivers seatback in horizontal position, impregnating 5 different "hos" in 5 months, "high 5in", moron slang, and crap getto nonmusic. Whiteboy getto BS that somehow was was transplanted. How some ended up in the fire service? Maybe "needed" by those who never made it in the infantry (ancient brotherhood of arms) and need a group.

    You brother is a male with the same father &/or mother as you.

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    I have a good powerpoint at home that I got from a FOOLS website that explains what Brotherhood means.


    I'll try to put it up after work tonight.
    ------------------------------------
    These opinions are mine and do not reflect the opinions of any organizations I am affiliated with.
    ------------------------------------

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    To me "Brotherhood" is not just limited to the department that you work for. It is world wide. It has nothing to do with unions, vollies, or pcf's. It's in your heart of hearts.
    If your work boots stay in your work pants, then you, my friend, are my brother.
    IAFF

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    Kevin.....couldn't have said it better myself, GOOD JOB!!!


    Snowball....I agree as well.
    Jason Knecht
    Assistant Chief
    Altoona Fire Dept.
    Altoona, WI

    IACOJ - Director of Cheese and Whine
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    EAT CHEESE OR DIE!!

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    Brotherhood is a group of people belonging to the same profession or having similar interest or bonds. For instance we have the Brotherhood of Teamsters, Muslim Brotherhood, Brotherhood of Magicians, The Conservative Brotherhood, and the Aryan Brotherhood.

    It really has nothing to do with the motivation for being part of the club.

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    Brotherhood in the fire service? Simple really, knowing that the guys you work with will be there for you, on the job, off the job, anywhere you need them, as you will be for them. It extends to the big family of all firefighters. Don't think so? Look at the money raised for those Brothers and Sisters in need. Look at ther firefighters who ended up in New York after 9/11, or in Louisiana after the flood, or in the next county over after the tornado, or any time extra help is needed.

    We had a guy on the job here whose wife was gravely ill, seemed like she might not make it for a while. Guys stepped up and covered his shifts, donated money, did fund raisers, and so much more. THAT IS BROTHERHOOD.

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    I think you'll find it anywhere people work in a high stress environment and have to rely on each other when it get's bad.

    Military, cops, firemen.. ice road truckers ... crab fishermen. You know, all the shows on Cable TV.
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

    "The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list."

    "When tempted to fight fire with fire, remember that the Fire Department usually uses water."

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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    Brotherhood is a group of people belonging to the same profession or having similar interest or bonds. For instance we have the Brotherhood of Teamsters, Muslim Brotherhood, Brotherhood of Magicians, The Conservative Brotherhood, and the Aryan Brotherhood.

    It really has nothing to do with the motivation for being part of the club.
    I disagree. Just because you are on the department does not mean you earn the right to be a brother or an equal. If I joined your department tomorrow, would you automatically consider my your equal or brother? If you told me to clean the rig and I told you no what would you think of me? If we were at the front door at a burning house and I won’t go in what would you think of me? If I bitched about training, bitched about cooking, bitched about not getting enough sleep, bitched about to much paperwork, what would you think of me then? If I joined not because I always wanted to be firefighter but because I needed a paycheck and the department was hiring what would you think of me?

    Secondly, I take offence that you would compare us to groups such as the Aryan Brotherhood. How dare you say that our brotherhood is like theirs? We do not promote hate or discrimination, rather we promote safety, professionalism, care, and we vow and oath to protect all life and property. Plus do you think they would put up with members like I have described in the above paragraph and consider them brothers?

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    Quote Originally Posted by KevinFFVFD View Post
    I disagree. Just because you are on the department does not mean you earn the right to be a brother or an equal.
    OH SO VERY TRUE!!!


    Nomination for post of the year!!
    Jason Knecht
    Assistant Chief
    Altoona Fire Dept.
    Altoona, WI

    IACOJ - Director of Cheese and Whine
    http://www.cheddarvision.tv/
    EAT CHEESE OR DIE!!

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    http://forums.firehouse.com/showthread.php?t=109799

    Go to this thread and look at these pics, then talk to me about what brotherhood is,,,,,,

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