1. #1

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    Question Felony: Sealed/Expunged

    Hello,

    I have friend who is interested in going to firefighting school. He was convicted of a felony (in Florida) 2 years ago, but last month the case was sealed. I am wondering if his past will not allow him to become certified.
    Can anyone answer this question?
    Thank you!

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    Yes. 99.9% of employers will ask "Have you been convicted of a felony". The answer, sealed or not, is still yes. And there is a good reason. We don't want felons and other similar jerks in our line of work.
    Even the burger-flippers at McDonald's probably have some McWackers.

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    Agreed. Convicted felons don't belong in this line of work, regardless of the circumstances around the crime. Tell him to look at something else.

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    I know somebody who's boss told him to dump a large amount of dirt/rocks in a field that was known for this to be happening. They set an example by convicting them both of felonies. He was 20 at the time. After debt is paid to society, let them apply.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AleshaRae View Post
    Hello,

    I have friend who is interested in going to firefighting school. He was convicted of a felony (in Florida) 2 years ago, but last month the case was sealed. I am wondering if his past will not allow him to become certified.
    Can anyone answer this question?
    Thank you!
    Most fire departments will cut loose anyone who is a felon or has a bad record, PERIOD!

    There are too many folks out there who have behaved theirselves and do not have a police record.

    Stay Safe and Well Out There....

    Always remembering 9-11-2001 and 343+ Brothers

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    At the ratio of 100 applicants to 1 job opening- Why should anyone hire a convicted felon if they don't have to?

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    Quote Originally Posted by nmfire View Post
    Yes. 99.9% of employers will ask "Have you been convicted of a felony". The answer, sealed or not, is still yes. And there is a good reason. We don't want felons and other similar jerks in our line of work.

    That decision is little hasty. If it was expunged there had to have had been a logical and reasonable explanation. I believe it depends on the crime. If it was armed robbery or something along those lines, then no, they shouldn't be able to join. But if it's a felony for tax evasion or something... then why should we render them useless in the fire service? His friend could make a great firefighter for all you know.

    Personally I believe such cases as these should be evaluated on an individualistic basis. Assumptions such as these decay our individual freedom.

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    WERE YOU EVER CONVICTED OF A FELONY? Y/N

    It is a yes or no question. Having the record hidden or expunged does not change the answer. The answer is yes for the rest of your life, end of story.
    Even the burger-flippers at McDonald's probably have some McWackers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chem1cal View Post
    But if it's a felony for tax evasion or something... then why should we render them useless in the fire service?
    I see your point, but I disagree. Especially with that example. It doesn't matter if it was a violent crime or a white collar crime. Either way, a felon doesn't deserve a foot in the door when it comes to this job.

    A felony conviction, regardless of the circumstances, shows a real lack of moral character. If you're not someone the public can trust, you don't deserve a badge. Case closed.
    Pete

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    Quote Originally Posted by nmfire View Post
    WERE YOU EVER CONVICTED OF A FELONY? Y/N

    It is a yes or no question. Having the record hidden or expunged does not change the answer. The answer is yes for the rest of your life, end of story.
    I post this in every expungment thread that comes up because everyone seems to have it wrong. Every state is different...for example...straight out the Texas law books.

    "The release, dissemination or use of expunged records by any agency is prohibited. Unless being questioned under oath, the defendant may deny the occurrence of the arrest and expungement order"

    Everything related to that case is trashed..fingerprints..mug shots..police report.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TechGuy View Post
    I post this in every expungment thread that comes up because everyone seems to have it wrong. Every state is different...for example...straight out the Texas law books.

    "The release, dissemination or use of expunged records by any agency is prohibited. Unless being questioned under oath, the defendant may deny the occurrence of the arrest and expungement order"

    Everything related to that case is trashed..fingerprints..mug shots..police report.
    When I filled out the app there was the Yes/No question with an option to explain if yes.

    There was also a line at the bottom of the paper where I signed that said "Do you swear all your answers to be truthful". Might not be under oath, but it comes close.
    "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Benjamin Franklin

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    Quote Originally Posted by CALFFBOU View Post
    At the ratio of 100 applicants to 1 job opening- Why should anyone hire a convicted felon if they don't have to?
    Actually here in Florida its more like 300:1. If your "friend" is still here in Florida he cannot become a certified firefighter, EMT or paramedic because he is a convicted felon, sealed records or not.
    If your going to cry about doing the job you signed up for do us all a favor and quit, there are plenty of dedicated people standing in line for the best job in the world.

    Firefighter/Paramedic

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    Quote Originally Posted by MarcusKspn View Post
    When I filled out the app there was the Yes/No question with an option to explain if yes.

    There was also a line at the bottom of the paper where I signed that said "Do you swear all your answers to be truthful". Might not be under oath, but it comes close.
    You are right, you weren't under oath. So you can legally and should deny it happening. In Texas you can't get any conviction expunged so I'm talking about dismissed cases and not-guilty verdicts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TechGuy View Post
    You are right, you weren't under oath. So you can legally and should deny it happening. In Texas you can't get any conviction expunged so I'm talking about dismissed cases and not-guilty verdicts.

    if your case was dismissed or you are found not-guilty then you don't have to say anything, because you are not guilty. Just because you are charged does not mean you did the crime.

    A sealed case means you are guilty of the crime, so it is a whole different ballgame in my opinion...
    "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Benjamin Franklin

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    Quote Originally Posted by TechGuy View Post
    You are right, you weren't under oath. So you can legally and should deny it happening.
    Excuse me? So because you're not under oath, it is ok to lie for personal gain and submit a fraudulent application?
    Even the burger-flippers at McDonald's probably have some McWackers.

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    I agree, but a certain member who tells everyone about his years as a background investigator would say otherwise. My point was just about expungement.... people tend to not know what it actually means. When I filled out my application it asked "have you ever been arrested or charged with a crime?" and then another "do you have any convictions?" You can answer no to both.
    Last edited by TechGuy; 07-29-2009 at 10:34 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nmfire View Post
    Excuse me? So because you're not under oath, it is ok to lie for personal gain and submit a fraudulent application?
    Why would someone share with the fire department that they were charged with a felony when no record of it exist. Texas law clearly states that it is like it never happened. I'm talking about dismissed charges, not convictions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MarcusKspn View Post
    Just because you are charged does not mean you did the crime.
    Did I miss something? That doesn't make sense.
    "If the ladder goes up, the building goes down."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Breech31 View Post
    Did I miss something? That doesn't make sense.
    Huh? Having charges against you does not mean you are guilty. That would be the point of trials.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Breech31 View Post
    Did I miss something? That doesn't make sense.
    We were talking about people who have been charged with a felony, went to court, and got a not guilty verdict.

    Since they were cleared of the crime, they don't have to put on their job application that they were charged in the first place.
    "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Benjamin Franklin

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