1. #1
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    Default Firefighting "robots"

    This article describes the use of what appear to be drones (remote-controlled devices, i.e., not autonomous) in some firefighting applications. There is a short video demonstration which shows several of the devices being used to investigate, flow water on, and remove a leaking acetylene cylinder. (Well, a prop, anyway - see the regulator pop off the cylinder at the end.)

    Well, it seems to make sense for a hazmat situation like this, and apparently LFB has used these for real already. What do you think - as in, could you see your department using such things? Clearly, they take significant training and practice to use effectively, and small departments will have neither the budget nor call volume to justify acquiring them. But I could see large jurisdictions forming teams to use them, if they could be deployed quickly enough, and there were clear guidelines on when they're deployed (i.e., not every leaking can of hair spray gets the gizmo squad).

    Now for some speculation. Do you ever see robots - real, self-directed robots, not guided by someone outside - being used in "ordinary" structural firefighting? Right now, they simply lack the agility and situational awareness to maneuver in real suppression situations; they'd simply get in the way. But, as they get smarter and more nimble, what would you use one for? I can think of a few specific roles for which they might be suited, e.g.:
    - team assistant: follows an attack or search team, provides lighting, carries tools, and most importantly remembers how you got there and how to get out.
    - RIT helper: carries extra air, lighting/locator beacon/communication, can stay with a downed FF even when the initial search team is low on air. Could carry some sort of "point defense" suppression, maybe?
    - "can opener" - some sort of spider-like device that can navigate and open up an unstable roof on which you don't want crews operating.

    What do you think? Maybe this belongs in a science fiction forum, but the article got me thinking.

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    You cant even speculate something like this because we cant even get federal funding to keep fire houses open let alone spend on some robot(s) in this case. IMO I think it's stupid and if this was being built in the US I would be ****ed that money went into designing a robot for firefighting. What, they had 4 robots to do one job and how long did that take? I would rather see more development and design in keeping FF's safe with either more available equipment or designs such as the tracker devices then spending time and money on making a robot for firefighting purpose.

    Keep the robots for swat and bomb threats when it comes to civil service.

    My 2 cents.

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    Ok, I can see where they’re going with this. You have a situation where a high pressure cylinder is leaking or close to explosion and you use the robot to take the “human factor” out of the immediate danger area and deal with the situation. However this is where I see the problem….
    The time it takes to bring in and set up 3 robots and then assess the situation seems like it would take a long time. Also I can imagine the price tag on these machines. I highly doubt that many fire departments will have the funding to purchase these things. Like Elimper said, the department’s money needs to be spent in better areas such as apparatus, updated equipment, TIC’s and so forth.
    I remember about a year ago I saw a similar video of a robot that was being developed for structural firefighting. That’s right, using a robot to go up into a structure and put it our instead to “endangering” firefighters to put the fire out.

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    I never see a robot being built that is capable of significant structural firefighting, unfortunately. It would be a great concept as it could limit the human risk, much as the Predator, and other drones, have assumed some of the duties of manned combat aircraft. Certainly anytime we can keep firefighters from entering a structure, and replacing them with technology, it is a very good thing.

    Possibly they could be developed for firefighting on level surfaces, such as warehouses, or large open areas, but I doubt I would ever see a robot capable of dealing with stairs, furniture and debris found in the ordinary structural enviroment.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sts060 View Post
    This article describes the use of what appear to be drones (remote-controlled devices, i.e., not autonomous) in some firefighting applications. There is a short video demonstration which shows several of the devices being used to investigate, flow water on, and remove a leaking acetylene cylinder. (Well, a prop, anyway - see the regulator pop off the cylinder at the end.)

    Well, it seems to make sense for a hazmat situation like this, and apparently LFB has used these for real already. What do you think - as in, could you see your department using such things? Clearly, they take significant training and practice to use effectively, and small departments will have neither the budget nor call volume to justify acquiring them. But I could see large jurisdictions forming teams to use them, if they could be deployed quickly enough, and there were clear guidelines on when they're deployed (i.e., not every leaking can of hair spray gets the gizmo squad).

    Now for some speculation. Do you ever see robots - real, self-directed robots, not guided by someone outside - being used in "ordinary" structural firefighting? Right now, they simply lack the agility and situational awareness to maneuver in real suppression situations; they'd simply get in the way. But, as they get smarter and more nimble, what would you use one for? I can think of a few specific roles for which they might be suited, e.g.:
    - team assistant: follows an attack or search team, provides lighting, carries tools, and most importantly remembers how you got there and how to get out.
    - RIT helper: carries extra air, lighting/locator beacon/communication, can stay with a downed FF even when the initial search team is low on air. Could carry some sort of "point defense" suppression, maybe?
    - "can opener" - some sort of spider-like device that can navigate and open up an unstable roof on which you don't want crews operating.

    What do you think? Maybe this belongs in a science fiction forum, but the article got me thinking.
    What do I think? I think that this is a dream come true for the cowards on here.
    PROUD, HONORED AND HUMBLED RECIPIENT OF THE PURPLE HYDRANT AWARD - 10/2007.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI View Post
    What do I think? I think that this is a dream come true for the cowards on here.
    If we can teach the robot to throw a Fit-5 through the window, then we would have a moneymaker
    "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Benjamin Franklin

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    I can see these having a niche in hazmat. I mean come on, Bomb squads have been using them for years.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MarcusKspn View Post
    If we can teach the robot to throw a Fit-5 through the window, then we would have a moneymaker
    Thanks, Marcus... the City's IT department wants to set up an account just to have them come and clean out my keyboard and monitor... they want to call it "GonzTech".. either that or make my office a coffee free zone!

    Posted by George...
    What do I think? I think that this is a dream come true for the cowards on here.
    What happens when the robots get a conscience, like HAL in 2001: A Space Oddysey or an NC-5 from I, Robot?

    PS: it's not as far of as one would think....
    Attached Images Attached Images  
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    Quote Originally Posted by sts060 View Post
    This article describes the use of what appear to be drones (remote-controlled devices, i.e., not autonomous) in some firefighting applications. There is a short video demonstration which shows several of the devices being used to investigate, flow water on, and remove a leaking acetylene cylinder. (Well, a prop, anyway - see the regulator pop off the cylinder at the end.)

    Well, it seems to make sense for a hazmat situation like this, and apparently LFB has used these for real already. What do you think - as in, could you see your department using such things? Clearly, they take significant training and practice to use effectively, and small departments will have neither the budget nor call volume to justify acquiring them. But I could see large jurisdictions forming teams to use them, if they could be deployed quickly enough, and there were clear guidelines on when they're deployed (i.e., not every leaking can of hair spray gets the gizmo squad).

    Now for some speculation. Do you ever see robots - real, self-directed robots, not guided by someone outside - being used in "ordinary" structural firefighting? Right now, they simply lack the agility and situational awareness to maneuver in real suppression situations; they'd simply get in the way. But, as they get smarter and more nimble, what would you use one for? I can think of a few specific roles for which they might be suited, e.g.:
    - team assistant: follows an attack or search team, provides lighting, carries tools, and most importantly remembers how you got there and how to get out.
    - RIT helper: carries extra air, lighting/locator beacon/communication, can stay with a downed FF even when the initial search team is low on air. Could carry some sort of "point defense" suppression, maybe?
    - "can opener" - some sort of spider-like device that can navigate and open up an unstable roof on which you don't want crews operating.

    What do you think? Maybe this belongs in a science fiction forum, but the article got me thinking.
    I believe the use of robots in firefighting situations would overall help save lives, but there's a few problems. Robots don't have human instinct which plays a large role in the firefighting scene. An additional problem is that I don't believe we're technologically advanced enough to make robots savvy enough to navigate a burning house for search, find a downed occupant, and carry them out. Getting a robot to walk wasa huge step alone.

    I like the ideas of robots as support roles though. There's less of a burden on them and we continue to do our job while also adding the additional defenses acquired from these robots.

    I'd want a small robot that could easily navigate engulfed rooms or rooms that have potential for flashover. In the future I believe it's possible and plausible. However, as of right now, the technology isn't on par for primary use of robots in firefighting situations, and the sapping economy is the nail in the coffin.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MarcusKspn View Post
    If we can teach the robot to throw a Fit-5 through the window, then we would have a moneymaker
    That's my nomination for post of the week!

    I'm still laughing!

    One of you young guys need to photoshop something like that. That would be awesome!

    .
    Last edited by ChiefKN; 07-29-2009 at 12:54 PM.
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    What happens when the robots get a conscience
    They become fire fighters...REAL fire fighters.
    PROUD, HONORED AND HUMBLED RECIPIENT OF THE PURPLE HYDRANT AWARD - 10/2007.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChiefKN View Post
    One of you young guys need to photoshop something like that. That would be awesome!
    Your wish is my command:

    Johnny 5, the official robot of Fit-5




    Deploy the Fit-5 from the safety of your command vehicle

    "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Benjamin Franklin

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    Quote Originally Posted by MarcusKspn View Post
    Your wish is my command:

    Johnny 5, the official robot of Fit-5




    Deploy the Fit-5 from the safety of your command vehicle


    Damn it.. you did it again!
    I'm ROTFLMAO!!!!
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

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    Please redo that photo immediately before the OSH worriers see it.

    What on earth were you thinking?

    That robot has no PPE, no helmet, and where is his BA?

    Silly man.
    Psychiatrists state 1 in 4 people has a mental illness.
    Look at three of your friends, if they are ok, your it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FlyingKiwi View Post
    Please redo that photo immediately before the OSH worriers see it.

    What on earth were you thinking?

    That robot has no PPE, no helmet, and where is his BA?

    Silly man.
    Until NFPA passes a standard on the proper manufacturer specs, care, maintenance, storage, and fire ground use of robotic firefighting units that utilize the Fit-5, I will not even entertain this discussion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FlyingKiwi View Post
    Please redo that photo immediately before the OSH worriers see it.

    What on earth were you thinking?

    That robot has no PPE, no helmet, and where is his BA?

    Silly man.
    I was actually thinking about giving him an "I fight what you fear" t-shirt, but then I held myself back...
    "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Benjamin Franklin

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    Quote Originally Posted by chem1cal View Post
    I believe the use of robots in firefighting situations would overall help save lives, but there's a few problems. Robots don't have human instinct which plays a large role in the firefighting scene. An additional problem is that I don't believe we're technologically advanced enough to make robots savvy enough to navigate a burning house for search, find a downed occupant, and carry them out. Getting a robot to walk wasa huge step alone.

    I like the ideas of robots as support roles though. There's less of a burden on them and we continue to do our job while also adding the additional defenses acquired from these robots.

    I'd want a small robot that could easily navigate engulfed rooms or rooms that have potential for flashover. In the future I believe it's possible and plausible. However, as of right now, the technology isn't on par for primary use of robots in firefighting situations, and the sapping economy is the nail in the coffin.
    Well let's see. Not savvy enough to navigate a burning house. Well of course not, a fire fighter is controlling it!! So it isn't acting on its own, it's being guided by a fire fighter.

    It won't be long before robots will be commonplace for entry into IDLH, only the technically inept will resist.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MarcusKspn View Post
    Your wish is my command:

    Johnny 5, the official robot of Fit-5




    Deploy the Fit-5 from the safety of your command vehicle

    That's friggin awesome.

    Now add gold leaf and a Q!
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

    "The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list."

    "When tempted to fight fire with fire, remember that the Fire Department usually uses water."

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    Don't be an idiot! OSHA has no jurisdiction over this at all.

    This is strictly ROSHA jurisdiction.
    PROUD, HONORED AND HUMBLED RECIPIENT OF THE PURPLE HYDRANT AWARD - 10/2007.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    ...It won't be long before robots will be commonplace for entry into IDLH...
    Define long.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    I laughed so hard I think a little pee came out!!

    Jason Knecht
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    Altoona Fire Dept.
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    Define long.
    Steady Bones.

    We don't want to make people blush.
    Psychiatrists state 1 in 4 people has a mental illness.
    Look at three of your friends, if they are ok, your it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bones42 View Post
    Define long.
    Oh MY!!!! That is a rather loaded question. One I believe would be inappropriate to answer in a public place. I don't want to make anyone feel inferior simply becuase they use 6 inch hose.

    However to answer the other question.... I would say in the next 15 to 20 years, depending on how fast the traditionalist adapt to change.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MarcusKspn View Post
    I was actually thinking about giving him an "I fight what you fear" t-shirt, but then I held myself back...

    Do It! It would be a hoot!
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

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    Quote Originally Posted by MarcusKspn View Post
    Your wish is my command:

    Johnny 5, the official robot of Fit-5




    Deploy the Fit-5 from the safety of your command vehicle

    hahahaha milk just came out of my nose! this is getting added to the depts SOGs on the fit5! sub heading robot deployed fit5!

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