1. #26
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    What gets me confused is that Obama's father took him to another country where he had to change his citizenship in order to enroll his son in the local schools.
    Imagine if he actually put that concept into practice in the US?
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    If a parent changes their citizenship,what does that do to the minor child's citizenship?
    Aren't there many children born in the US (making them US citizens) yet their parents are here illegally and only here for the purpose of having their child born as a US citizen?


    The parents citizenship does not reflect the child's citizenship.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    Quote Originally Posted by doughesson View Post
    And rasslin' s real,too!

    What gets me confused is that Obama's father took him to another country where he had to change his citizenship in order to enroll his son in the local schools.
    If a parent changes their citizenship,what does that do to the minor child's citizenship?Did young "Barry" also become an Indonesian citizen because his father had custody of him?
    If Barack Hussein Obama had to claim Indonesian citizenship in order to go to grade school,when did he regain his US citizenship and how does being however briefly an Indonesian citizen affect his eligibility to be President of the United States of America?
    Nothing. A parent cannot renounce a minor child's citizenship.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

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    Quote Originally Posted by doughesson View Post
    And rasslin' s real,too!

    What gets me confused is that Obama's father took him to another country where he had to change his citizenship in order to enroll his son in the local schools.
    If a parent changes their citizenship,what does that do to the minor child's citizenship?Did young "Barry" also become an Indonesian citizen because his father had custody of him?
    If Barack Hussein Obama had to claim Indonesian citizenship in order to go to grade school,when did he regain his US citizenship and how does being however briefly an Indonesian citizen affect his eligibility to be President of the United States of America?
    We covered the same situation and the applicable laws not too long ago on here. A minor cannot loose his citizenship because of his parent's action.

    My post
    on this subject from 3 months ago.
    Last edited by MarcusKspn; 08-06-2009 at 06:31 PM.
    "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Benjamin Franklin

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    So why does Hussein keep his BC cloaked in secrecy? BTW, the announcement doesn't address his actions in foreign countries that potentially affect his citizenship here.
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptOldTimer View Post
    Moonbat is probably holding the 3icthes hand!
    I'd rather hold her hand than worship Hussein like he's some kind of prophet, which is exactly what most of the libtards are doing on a daily basis.
    Quote Originally Posted by BryanLoader View Post
    Add in Area 51, Roswell, The grassy knoll in Dallas, Disney and Kennedys brains being preserved. Theres lots of nutjobs out there
    Oh you want to talk conspiracy theories? OK. Which party contains 99% of the people who believe (or believed):
    • O.J. is innocent;
    • Bush shirked his National Guard duty;
    • Sarah Palin's infant child, Trig, was actually the child of her daughter;
    • Justice Antonin Scalia threw the 2000 election to Bush so that his son could get a legal job with the Labor Department;
    • The Mumia Abu-Jamal was framed;
    • The Diebold Corp. secretly stole thousands of Kerry votes in 2004;
    • Duke lacrosse players gang-raped a stripper;
    • Bill Clinton did not have sex with "that woman";
    • Heterosexuals are just as likely to contract AIDS as gays;
    • John Edwards didn't have an affair with Rielle Hunter;
    • John Edwards' campaign aide Andrew Young is the father of Rielle Hunter's child.
    • And, a 2007 Rasmussen poll showed that 35% of Democrats believe Bush knew about the 9/11 attacks in advance, while 26% aren't sure. This is my surprised face >>>>
    • Oh and don't forget that Janeane Garofalo believes Enron's Ken Lay faked his own death.
    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    the House of Representatives has unanimously passed a resolution declaring Hawaii as the official birthplace of President Barack Obama.
    It's a non-binding resolution type thing, it has no legal authority. And since none of the HOR's have seen Hussein's BC yet, it has no basis to substantiate it. While you're out, did you happen to find anything to support your blatant lie that the Iraq War cost $3,000,000,000,000.00?? I didn't think so.

    What do Stevie Wonder & I have in common?

    Neither of us has seen Hussein's BC.
    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    Obama is facing a similar situation to FDR. It worked for FDR, and it will work again.
    No, it took the economy 10 years to rebound after FDR's anti-business interventions.
    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    Isn't time for you reread your BK settlement?
    Like a broken record.
    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    idiotboy, you might have noticed Bush is no longer president.
    Doesn't stop the libtards like you from whining about prosecuting GWB and his admin for alleged crimes.
    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    At what point in time does a new president become responsible for what occurs during their administration?
    When that president actually has something to do with outcome.

    I have heard ENOUGH from this petty, narcissistic, egotistical, immature, irresponsible LOSER we have for a President, whining about the deficit that he "inherited". Hussein didn't inherit it, he helped create it. Him and his party were in control. He voted for these spending measures, he supported them.

    Congress controls the nation's wallet and Hussein and his party controlled the HOR for the past three years and he and his party helped lead our nation into this economic mess!

    Just because another man was in the executive office when it occurred does not absolve Hussein, nor his party, of responsibility.
    Last edited by txgp17; 08-23-2009 at 06:08 PM.
    The American people will never knowingly adopt Socialism. But under the name of 'liberalism' they will adopt every fragment of the Socialist program, until one day America will be a Socialist nation, without knowing how it happened. --Norman Mattoon Thomas, 6 time presidential candidate for the Socialist Party of America

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    Quote Originally Posted by txgp17 View Post
    So why does Hussein keep his BC cloaked in secrecy?
    No matter what he does, people like you would never be happy, always call it a forgery, and always demand more "proof". I don't care if I was the president of not, in this day of identity theft I would not hand over a private document that could be used for ill purposes. He has a passport, that passport proves he is a citizen.

    Quote Originally Posted by txgp17 View Post
    BTW, the announcement doesn't address his actions in foreign countries that potentially affect his citizenship here.
    What actions?

    Quote Originally Posted by txgp17 View Post
    Neither of us has seen Hussein's BC.
    And why should anyone have a right to see it.

    We know for a fact that McCain was born outside of the country, why has he never released his BC? Why has no-one even asked for it?

    I have never seen the BC of ANY president. Have you?

    Quote Originally Posted by txgp17 View Post
    I have heard ENOUGH from this petty, narcissistic, egotistical, immature, irresponsible LOSER we have for a President, whining about the deficit that he "inherited".
    Actually, he is the President, that makes him the winner .

    And personally, every time I hear people running around calling him Hussein, it reminds me how narrow minded people are and that they hate him for apparently no other reason than his Muslim sounding name .
    Last edited by MarcusKspn; 08-23-2009 at 04:23 PM.
    "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Benjamin Franklin

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    Quote Originally Posted by MarcusKspn View Post
    No matter what he does, people like you would never be happy, always call it a forgery, and always demand more "proof". I don't care if I was the president of not, in this day of identity theft I would not hand over a private document that could be used for ill purposes. He has a passport, that passport proves he is a citizen.



    What actions?



    And why should anyone have a right to see it.

    We know for a fact that McCain was born outside of the country, why has he never released his BC? Why has no-one even asked for it?

    I have never seen the BC of ANY president. Have you?



    Actually, he is the President, that makes him the winner .

    And personally, every time I hear people running around calling him Hussein, it reminds me how narrow minded people are and that they hate him for apparently no other reason than his Muslim sounding name .
    Regardless of where you stand on this we the people are entitled to see his Birth Certificate. After all, when you put your name in the hat for President you have to prove to the people you are eligible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    Regardless of where you stand on this we the people are entitled to see his Birth Certificate. After all, when you put your name in the hat for President you have to prove to the people you are eligible.
    Where is McCain's. He was born in Panama, why haven't we seen his. He put his name in the hat for President, so why didn't he proof that he is a citizen?

    He has a United States Passport, which is only issued to United States Citizens.

    And after he posts his Birth Certificate, which he has already done once and it was promptly called a fake, whats next. People will never be happy and always demand more proof, simply because they don't like that McCain lost.
    "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Benjamin Franklin

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    Quote Originally Posted by MarcusKspn View Post
    Where is McCain's. He was born in Panama, why haven't we seen his. He put his name in the hat for President, so why didn't he proof that he is a citizen?

    He has a United States Passport, which is only issued to United States Citizens.

    And after he posts his Birth Certificate, which he has already done once and it was promptly called a fake, whats next. People will never be happy and always demand more proof, simply because they don't like that McCain lost.
    Slow down my friend. I'm not one of those birthers. As for McCain, these are the requirements for Senator

    * at least 30 years old.

    * a U.S. citizen for at least nine years at the time of election to the Senate.

    * a resident of the state one is elected to represent in the Senate.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MarcusKspn View Post
    Where is McCain's.
    He was born in Panama, why haven't we seen his. He put his name in the hat for President, so why didn't he proof that he is a citizen?
    McCain didn't get elected, or did you miss that little piece of information? Being a NBC isn't a requirement to be a Senator, nor is it a prerequisite to attempt to get elected to POTUS. But it is a requirement to hold the office, and should be verified with a BC before being sworn in.

    Call for McCain's BC all you want, I'll even echo your sentiments, as long as Hussein is held to the same standard.
    Quote Originally Posted by MarcusKspn View Post
    He has a United States Passport, which is only issued to United States Citizens.
    Passports are only issued to US Citizens yes, but only Natural Born US Citizens are supposed to be POTUS.
    Quote Originally Posted by MarcusKspn View Post
    And after he posts his Birth Certificate, which he has already done once and it was promptly called a fake, whats next.
    Hussein never posted his BC, he posted a low resolution digital picture of a Certificate of Live Birth. In Hawaii, a Certificate of Live Birth is a distinctly different document than a Birth Certificate.
    Quote Originally Posted by MarcusKspn View Post
    People will never be happy and always demand more proof, simply because they don't like that McCain lost.
    I want proof because I want to be certain that our elected officials comply with the law.
    Last edited by txgp17; 08-23-2009 at 07:04 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by txgp17 View Post
    McCain didn't get elected, or did you miss that little piece of information? Being a NBC isn't a requirement to be a Senator, nor is it a prerequisite to attempt to get elected to POTUS. But it is a requirement to hold the office, and should be verified with a BC before being sworn in.

    Call for McCain's BC all you want, I'll even echo your sentiments, as long as Hussein is held to the same standard.Passports are only issued to US Citizens yes, but only Natural Born US Citizens are supposed to be POTUS.Hussein never posted his BC, he posted a low resolution digital picture of a Certificate of Live Birth. In Hawaii, a Certificate of Live Birth is a distinctly different document than a Birth Certificate. I want proof because I want to be certain that our elected officials comply with the law.
    moonbat, how the heck are ya? Missed you and your lunatic ramblings.

    The GOP Governor of Hawaii verified the authenticity of Obama's birth certificate and his place of birth as Hawaii. What is it your hoping that seeing the document will tell you that hasn't already been said.

    Here's the fun part. Even if Obama was born in Kenya, his mom is an American. Under the law that qualifies him as a citizen and being eligible to run for President.

    None of your birther ramblings changes any of that.

    But watching you and the idiot birthers flopping around like a fish on dry land is great entertainment.
    Last edited by scfire86; 08-23-2009 at 09:55 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    Under the law that qualifies him as a citizen and being eligible to run for President.
    And British law says that since he's a descendant of a Brit, then he's British.

    Why does Barry fight so hard to keep lawsuits from being granted a full hearing in the courts?

    Barry is scared to release his long form BC. That fact is indisputable. I just want to know why.
    The American people will never knowingly adopt Socialism. But under the name of 'liberalism' they will adopt every fragment of the Socialist program, until one day America will be a Socialist nation, without knowing how it happened. --Norman Mattoon Thomas, 6 time presidential candidate for the Socialist Party of America

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    Quote Originally Posted by moonbat
    And British law says that since he's a descendant of a Brit, then he's British.
    And since when has the US allowed British law to supersede it?

    Quote Originally Posted by moonbat
    Why does Barry fight so hard to keep lawsuits from being granted a full hearing in the courts?
    Which ones?

    Quote Originally Posted by moonbat
    Barry is scared to release his long form BC. That fact is indisputable. I just want to know why.
    I want to be a billionaire. Doesn't mean it goings to happen. I'm happy he's keeping folks like you up in arms.

    Great entertainment.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

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    Quote Originally Posted by txgp17 View Post
    And British law says that since he's a descendant of a Brit, then he's British.

    Why does Barry fight so hard to keep lawsuits from being granted a full hearing in the courts?

    Barry is scared to release his long form BC. That fact is indisputable. I just want to know why.
    Does the constitution have any rules that does not allow a president to have dual citizenship? (even though he doesn't)

    What are the actions that you spoke of earlier that would make Obama loose his citizenship?
    "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Benjamin Franklin

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    Quote Originally Posted by MarcusKspn View Post
    Does the constitution have any rules that does not allow a president to have dual citizenship? (even though he doesn't)

    What are the actions that you spoke of earlier that would make Obama loose his citizenship?
    Only Indonesian citizens could attend Indonesian schools at the time Barack Obama attended the Indonesian school where he was registered as Barry Soetoro. His citizenship was listed as Indonesian, his religion as Islam, and his father as Lolo Soetoro, M.A. There was also no dual citizenship at the time. If he was adopted by his Indonesian stepfather, he would have forfeited any U.S. citizenship he may have had, just as when a child is adopted in America, he or she becomes an American.

    In addition, according to U.S. law pertaining to births abroad, from “Dec. 24, 1952, to Nov. 13, 1986,” in order to register the child’s birth as a U.S. natural-born citizen at the time of Obama’s birth, he or she must be:

    1. Born to two U.S. citizen parents; OR
    2. If only one parent was a U.S. citizen at the time of the birth, that parent must have resided in the United States for at least 10 years, at least five of which must be after the age of 14.

    Since Barack Obama’s father was not a U.S. citizen and Obama’s mother was only 18 at the time of his birth, she failed to meet the legal requirements of U.S. residency for at least five years after the age of 14. Ann was 18.68 years of age when Hussein Junior was born.

    Barack Obama Jr., aka Barack H. Obama Jr., aka Barry Soetoro, aka Barack Soetoro, aka Barry Dunham, aka Barry Obama, aka Barack Hussein Obama took the last name of his mother's husband. At a minimum it, along with the school (and thus, official records of the State of Indonesia) serves as probably cause to investigate further.

    Until the day when an unedited copy of Hussein's Birth Certificate is released for public scrutiny, and when a court has ruled ON THE MERITS of his citizenship status based on his time in Indonesia, his citizenship will remain unproven.
    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    Even if Obama was born in Kenya, his mom is an American. Under the law that qualifies him as a citizen and being eligible to run for President.
    According to U.S. law pertaining to births abroad, from “Dec. 24, 1952, to Nov. 13, 1986,” in order to register the child’s birth as a U.S. natural-born citizen at the time of Obama’s birth, he or she must be:
    1. Born to two U.S. citizen parents; OR
    2. If only one parent was a U.S. citizen at the time of the birth, that parent must have resided in the United States for at least 10 years, at least five of which must be after the age of 14.

    Since Barack Obama’s father was not a U.S. citizen and Obama’s mother was only 18 at the time of his birth, she failed to meet the legal requirements of U.S. residency for at least five years after the age of 14. Ann was 18.68 years of age when Hussein Junior was born.

    If you're wondering why I'm writing this twice in one post, it because you were too stupid to read and retain the knowledge the first time I wrote it, despite the fact that you specifically responded to that post.
    Last edited by txgp17; 08-24-2009 at 12:04 AM.
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    Not that it will stop you. You just keep going off the cliff of lunacy and claiming otherwise.

    Since it appears that some people who are willing to listen to reason remain confused, here is the reality that debunks more of the birther myths:

    • A child is not a natural-born citizen unless both parents are U.S. citizens. That this is false should be obvious. It is uncontested that Obama’s father was an alien. Thus if both parents had to be citizens in order for a child to be a natural-born citizen, the question of Obama’s eligibility never would have come up. He would have been ineligible right off the bat and would not have run for president. The birth certificate and place of birth would be irrelevant.

    Nonetheless, the birthers have blown a lot of smoke around the meaning of the phrase “natural-born citizen.” This clears it up.

    Article II, Section 1 of the Constitution stipulates that the president must be a “natural born citizen” (or, in an obsolete provision, a citizen in 1788), but it does not define the term. The original interpretation relied on British common law, under which, as Justice Horace Gray noted in U.S. v. Wong Kim Ark (1898), “every child born in England of alien parents was a natural-born subject unless the child of an ambassador or other diplomatic agent of a foreign State or of an alien enemy in hostile occupation of the place where the child was born.”

    The 14th Amendment, ratified in 1868, established this principle as a constitutional right: “All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside.” Aside from the children of foreign diplomats and (theoretically) military occupiers, the only U.S. natives not to be natural-born citizens were Indians born on reservations--and this exception was abolished by the Indian Citizenship Act of 1924.

    Other statutes have extended natural-born citizenship to some children born overseas to U.S. citizens. There is a theory that these statutes are unconstitutional--that the Constitution, in granting natural-born citizenship to those born on U.S. soil, thereby denies it to everyone else. Although this view is eccentric, it is an open legal question. According to the State Department’s Consular Affairs Manual (page 9), “the fact that someone is a natural born citizen pursuant to a statute does not necessarily imply that he or she is such a citizen for Constitutional purposes.” Since Obama was born in the U.S., he is in any case a natural-born citizen by constitutional right. By contrast, John McCain, born in Panama, is a statutory natural-born citizen.

    Some birthers imagine that there is a difference between being a “citizen by birth” or a “native citizen” on the one hand and a “natural born” citizen on the other. “Eccentric” is too kind a word for this notion, which is either daft or dishonest. All three terms are identical in meaning. As Chief Justice Morrison Waite noted in Minor v. Happersett (1874):

    Additions might always be made to the citizenship of the United States in two ways: first, by birth, and second, by naturalization. This is apparent from the Constitution itself, for it provides that “no person except a natural-born citizen, or a citizen of the United States at the time of the adoption of the Constitution, shall be eligible to the office of President,” and that Congress shall have power “to establish a uniform rule of naturalization.” Thus new citizens may be born or they may be created by naturalization.

    • Obama might be a citizen of Indonesia, not the U.S. After the president’s parents divorced, his mother married an Indonesian man and moved the family to Jakarta, where Barack lived from ages 6 through 10 (1967-71), at which point he returned to the U.S. The hypothesis--based on thin evidence and fat speculation--is that Obama was adopted by his stepfather and therefore became an Indonesian citizen.

    Even if that were true, however, it would not deprive him of his status as a natural-born citizen of America. As the State Department Web site notes (pay special attention here moonbat):

    Parents cannot renounce U.S. citizenship on behalf of their minor children. Before an oath of renunciation will be administered . . ., a person under the age of eighteen must convince a U.S. diplomatic or consular officer that he/she fully understands the nature and consequences of the oath of renunciation, is not subject to duress or undue influence, and is voluntarily seeking to renounce his/her U.S. citizenship.


    It is outlandish to suggest that a boy under 10 could persuade a diplomat of all that. It is only a tiny bit less outlandish to think that Obama came back to the U.S., spent eight or more years here, and then decided to renounce his citizenship.

    Besides, the oath of renunciation is administered in writing. What are we to conclude about someone who refuses to accept an official state birth certificate as proof of birth but expects us to accept utterly preposterous theories with no documentary evidence whatever?

    • “Why has Obama spent X dollars defending himself against lawsuits when he could just produce the original birth certificate and make the whole thing go away?” All these estimates have a common source: thin air.

    In any case, while this question sounds eminently reasonable, in fact it betrays a complete lack of understanding of the legal process. The “defense” against these frivolous lawsuits has consisted of filing a motion for summary judgment, which in every case has been granted.

    In a motion for summary judgment, a defendant in a lawsuit asks the judge to dismiss the case as meritless before trial. In considering whether to grant such a motion, the judge is obliged to treat all facts in dispute as if they were resolved in the plaintiff’s favor. He may dismiss the case only if he finds it is without merit as a matter of law. The defendant’s introduction of additional factual evidence into the record would make the process more costly and time-consuming, not less.

    The production of a 1961 birth certificate would make these lawsuits “go away” only if one assumes that it would persuade the plaintiffs to withdraw their claims, or not to file them in the first place. This assumption is completely fanciful. Birthers “claim without basis the COLB is a fake; there is nothing to stop them from claiming without basis the long form birth certificate is fake as well.” An outfit styling itself the Western Center for Journalism has produced what purports to be a report from “an investigator” commissioned by “a retired CIA officer”--neither of them has a name--arguing that the original birth certificate might be fraudulent.

    Fact is, he was born in Hawaii. A minor's parent cannot renounce their citizenship and Indonesian immigration law isn't binding on US citizens.

    And we'll continue laughing at (not with) you.

    Carry on.
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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    A child is not a natural-born citizen unless both parents are U.S. citizens.
    I never said that libtard. Once again you try to contort phrases and reinsert them into someone else's mouth. It would help if you had a thought of your own, rather than simply pasting someone else's words into the thread. Let's review what you said since you have such a spotty short-term memory.
    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    Even if Hussein was born in Kenya, his mom is an American. Under the law that qualifies him as a citizen and being eligible to run for President.
    Your false statement here says: "If Hussein was born abroad (aka NOT in America) then he's still a citizen cause his mommy was one. US Law directly contradicts this. Refer to page two of the U.S. Department of State Foreign Affairs Manual.
    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    It is uncontested that Hussein’s father was an alien. Thus if both parents had to be citizens in order for a child to be a natural-born citizen, the question of Hussein’s eligibility never would have come up. He would have been ineligible right off the bat and would not have run for president.
    US law clearly states that IF HE WAS BORN ABROAD, then
    1. At least one natural parent must have been a U.S. citizen when the child was born and,
    2. The U.S. citizen parent(s) must have resided or been physically present in the United States for the time required by the law in effect when the child was born.
    Ann didn't meet the "5 years past 14" requirement, therefore Hussein is not a US Citizen, IF HE WAS BORN ABROAD.
    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    Nonetheless, the birthers have blown a lot of smoke around the meaning of the phrase “natural-born citizen.” This clears it up.
    Again, you make a weak attempt at attributing alleged statements by others, to people who never made them.
    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    Parents cannot renounce U.S. citizenship on behalf of their minor children. Before an oath of renunciation will be administered . . ., a person under the age of eighteen must convince a U.S. diplomatic or consular officer that he/she fully understands the nature and consequences of the oath of renunciation, is not subject to duress or undue influence, and is voluntarily seeking to renounce his/her U.S. citizenship.
    You don't have to renounce your citizenship to lose it. Read the facts at the State Dept's website. "In order to lose U.S. citizenship, the law requires that the person must apply for the foreign citizenship voluntarily, by free choice, and with the intention to give up U.S. citizenship. Pay close attention here Libtard. "Intent can be shown by the person's statements or conduct."

    In order for Hussein to attend the Government schools that he did, he would have had to have been the adopted legal son of Lolo Soetoro. During the sixties, when Indonesia was a Police State, it was necessary to have certain identity papers to attend the Indonesian State recognized Schools he attended, and which Foreign children were not permitted to attend. There is clear evidence that Hussein Jr. has held at Indonesian Citizenship, which shows clear intent to give up U.S. citizenship.
    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    What are we to conclude about someone who refuses to accept an official state birth certificate as proof of birth but expects us to accept utterly preposterous theories with no documentary evidence whatever?
    Excuse me? No one has ever produced Hussein's birth certificate. More proof of your lunacy and selective memory.

    And the COLB birth proves nothing as Hawaii Revised Statute 338-178 allows registration of birth in Hawaii for a child that was born outside of Hawaii to parents who, for a year preceding the child’s birth, claimed Hawaii as their place of residence.

    And there's plenty of proof on the other side, you just choose to ignore it. School records from Indonesia, Immigration and Naturalization laws quoted directly from the State Dept's website.
    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    Fact is, he was born in Hawaii. A minor's parent cannot renounce their citizenship and Indonesian immigration law isn't binding on US citizens.
    It's not US law alone dipstick. At the time, US law stated that no US Citizen could hold dual citizenship with another country. Which meant if you get Indonesian citizenship, then you, by your conduct, lose your US citizenship. There is no formal "renouncement" involved, yet you keep coming back to this "child can't renounce" crap over and over.

    Indonesian law applies to Indonesian citizens, which is what Barry Soetoro automatically became when Lolo Soetoro adopted him. When Lolo Soetoro adopted him in the mid 1960s, he ceased to be a US Citizen, BY INDONESIAN LAW. The Senator is a Constitutional Lawyer which means that he knows, and has always known, that he is Ineligible to Hold the Office of POTUS. Until 2007 Indonesia did not recognize Dual Citizenship, and the USA did not recognize that one could be a Dual US/Indonesian Citizen. Barry was a child when it happened but it does not matter that the Senator was not responsible for the change of Citizenship.
    The American people will never knowingly adopt Socialism. But under the name of 'liberalism' they will adopt every fragment of the Socialist program, until one day America will be a Socialist nation, without knowing how it happened. --Norman Mattoon Thomas, 6 time presidential candidate for the Socialist Party of America

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    Quote Originally Posted by txgp17 View Post
    Only Indonesian citizens could attend Indonesian schools at the time Barack Obama attended the Indonesian school where he was registered as Barry Soetoro. His citizenship was listed as Indonesian, his religion as Islam, and his father as Lolo Soetoro, M.A. There was also no dual citizenship at the time. If he was adopted by his Indonesian stepfather, he would have forfeited any U.S. citizenship he may have had, just as when a child is adopted in America, he or she becomes an American.

    In addition, according to U.S. law pertaining to births abroad, from “Dec. 24, 1952, to Nov. 13, 1986,” in order to register the child’s birth as a U.S. natural-born citizen at the time of Obama’s birth, he or she must be:

    1. Born to two U.S. citizen parents; OR
    2. If only one parent was a U.S. citizen at the time of the birth, that parent must have resided in the United States for at least 10 years, at least five of which must be after the age of 14.

    Since Barack Obama’s father was not a U.S. citizen and Obama’s mother was only 18 at the time of his birth, she failed to meet the legal requirements of U.S. residency for at least five years after the age of 14. Ann was 18.68 years of age when Hussein Junior was born.

    Barack Obama Jr., aka Barack H. Obama Jr., aka Barry Soetoro, aka Barack Soetoro, aka Barry Dunham, aka Barry Obama, aka Barack Hussein Obama took the last name of his mother's husband. At a minimum it, along with the school (and thus, official records of the State of Indonesia) serves as probably cause to investigate further.

    Until the day when an unedited copy of Hussein's Birth Certificate is released for public scrutiny, and when a court has ruled ON THE MERITS of his citizenship status based on his time in Indonesia, his citizenship will remain unproven.According to U.S. law pertaining to births abroad, from “Dec. 24, 1952, to Nov. 13, 1986,” in order to register the child’s birth as a U.S. natural-born citizen at the time of Obama’s birth, he or she must be:
    1. Born to two U.S. citizen parents; OR
    2. If only one parent was a U.S. citizen at the time of the birth, that parent must have resided in the United States for at least 10 years, at least five of which must be after the age of 14.

    Since Barack Obama’s father was not a U.S. citizen and Obama’s mother was only 18 at the time of his birth, she failed to meet the legal requirements of U.S. residency for at least five years after the age of 14. Ann was 18.68 years of age when Hussein Junior was born.

    If you're wondering why I'm writing this twice in one post, it because you were too stupid to read and retain the knowledge the first time I wrote it, despite the fact that you specifically responded to that post.


    FINALLY! We have the proof as it relates to President Obamas birth. If you add the decimals of his Mothers age at birth, 1, 8, 6, 8, it equals 23. That is a PRIME NUMBER!!! Obvious as the point on your little tin cap that this certainly proves that President Obama is not eligible to be President!!

    Good Grief Charlie Brown, theres a bumper crop of nuts this year. Hope the squirrels get busy early.

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    And why should anyone have a right to see it.
    I'm not a birther, but don't use this argument. BC are public records. The same as deeds or mortgages. If I want to see yours, I can. If I want to see any presidents or presidential candidate, all I have to do is go to the Registrar of Vital Statistics where they were born and ask to see it.

    I have no idea how HI is getting around this.
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    Quote Originally Posted by moonbat
    I never said that libtard. Once again you try to contort phrases and reinsert them into someone else's mouth. It would help if you had a thought of your own, rather than simply pasting someone else's words into the thread. Let's review what you said since you have such a spotty short-term memory.Your false statement here says: "If Hussein was born abroad (aka NOT in America) then he's still a citizen cause his mommy was one. US Law directly contradicts this. Refer to page two of the U.S. Department of State Foreign Affairs Manual.US law clearly states that IF HE WAS BORN ABROAD, then
    1. At least one natural parent must have been a U.S. citizen when the child was born and,
    2. The U.S. citizen parent(s) must have resided or been physically present in the United States for the time required by the law in effect when the child was born.
    Ann didn't meet the "5 years past 14" requirement, therefore Hussein is not a US Citizen, IF HE WAS BORN ABROAD.Again, you make a weak attempt at attributing alleged statements by others, to people who never made them.You don't have to renounce your citizenship to lose it. Read the facts at the State Dept's website. "In order to lose U.S. citizenship, the law requires that the person must apply for the foreign citizenship voluntarily, by free choice, and with the intention to give up U.S. citizenship. Pay close attention here Libtard. "Intent can be shown by the person's statements or conduct."

    In order for Hussein to attend the Government schools that he did, he would have had to have been the adopted legal son of Lolo Soetoro. During the sixties, when Indonesia was a Police State, it was necessary to have certain identity papers to attend the Indonesian State recognized Schools he attended, and which Foreign children were not permitted to attend. There is clear evidence that Hussein Jr. has held at Indonesian Citizenship, which shows clear intent to give up U.S. citizenship.Excuse me? No one has ever produced Hussein's birth certificate. More proof of your lunacy and selective memory.

    And the COLB birth proves nothing as Hawaii Revised Statute 338-178 allows registration of birth in Hawaii for a child that was born outside of Hawaii to parents who, for a year preceding the child’s birth, claimed Hawaii as their place of residence.

    And there's plenty of proof on the other side, you just choose to ignore it. School records from Indonesia, Immigration and Naturalization laws quoted directly from the State Dept's website. It's not US law alone dipstick. At the time, US law stated that no US Citizen could hold dual citizenship with another country. Which meant if you get Indonesian citizenship, then you, by your conduct, lose your US citizenship. There is no formal "renouncement" involved, yet you keep coming back to this "child can't renounce" crap over and over.

    Indonesian law applies to Indonesian citizens, which is what Barry Soetoro automatically became when Lolo Soetoro adopted him. When Lolo Soetoro adopted him in the mid 1960s, he ceased to be a US Citizen, BY INDONESIAN LAW. The Senator is a Constitutional Lawyer which means that he knows, and has always known, that he is Ineligible to Hold the Office of POTUS. Until 2007 Indonesia did not recognize Dual Citizenship,

    and the USA did not recognize that one could be a Dual US/Indonesian Citizen. Barry was a child when it happened but it does not matter that the Senator was not responsible for the change of Citizenship.
    Just one little problem here moonbat. The GOP governor of Hawaii has stated Obama was born in Hawaii. Makes your diatribe a moot point.

    Your citizenship issue is also a moot point given there is no record of Obama renouncing his citizenship, and Indonesian law isn't binding on American citizens. I sincerely doubt a 10 year old attending a school because his parents moved to a foreign country knew he was doing so and had the full intent of renouncing his citizenship. You moonbat birthers are grasping at straws with that one.

    Please keep it up. This is the best laugh I've had in two days.



    I live in OC which is ground zero for the birther movement based in Mission Viejo, CA. This is their leader. A friend of mine calls her the lost Gabor sister.
    Last edited by scfire86; 08-24-2009 at 09:53 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI View Post
    I'm not a birther, but don't use this argument. BC are public records. The same as deeds or mortgages. If I want to see yours, I can. If I want to see any presidents or presidential candidate, all I have to do is go to the Registrar of Vital Statistics where they were born and ask to see it.

    I have no idea how HI is getting around this.
    The state has passed a law that seals BC's unless the individual allows it to be seen. Obama has provided a COLB (which derives its information from the BC) and it states Obama was born in Hawaii.

    Obama's COLB is a state record proven as specified in 28 USC 1739. The Constitution tells us:

    Full Faith and Credit shall be given in each State to the public Acts, Records, and judicial Proceedings of every other State. And the Congress may by general Laws prescribe the Manner in which such Acts, Records and Proceedings shall be proved, and the Effect thereof. -- Article IV, Section 1


    Obama's proof that he meets a requirement of the Constitution is the very kind of record the Constitution grants full faith and credit.

    BTW, George. We may disagree on just about everything, but I am aware you are way too intelligent to buy into the birther movement.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    Just one little problem here moonbat. The GOP governor of Hawaii has stated Obama was born in Hawaii. Makes your diatribe a moot point.
    Did she offer up a copy of the BC to substantiate here statement?
    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    Your citizenship issue is also a moot point given there is no record of Obama renouncing his citizenship,
    It wasn't a "renouncement" libtard, it was an act of showing intent to be an Indonesian citizen.
    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    and Indonesian law isn't binding on American citizens.
    It isn't Indonesian law, it's American law that prohibited dual citizenship. At that time, when you became an Indonesian Citizen, you automatically lost American Citizenship, based on American Laws.

    This is like explaining hydraulics to a nitwit who thinks all hose is the same.
    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    I sincerely doubt a 10 year old attending a school because his parents moved to a foreign country knew he was doing so and had the full intent of renouncing his citizenship.
    I doesn't matter what you think. The only thing that matters is what our SCOTUS thinks.
    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    I live in OC which is ground zero for the birther movement based in Mission Viejo, CA.
    Ground Zero according to who? You and your liberal wet dreams who still think that the Iraq War cost $3,000,000,000,000.00?
    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    This is their leader.
    Again, according to who besides you? MSNBC would sell their soul to the devil to protect Hussein and his precious socialist mandate. According to them, and other libtards like you, anyone who opposes Hussein is a racist. Liberals have abandoned the effort to defend the policies against accusations of socialism, because they all know it is socialism. The can't defend their ideas so they resort to attacking the messengers.
    The American people will never knowingly adopt Socialism. But under the name of 'liberalism' they will adopt every fragment of the Socialist program, until one day America will be a Socialist nation, without knowing how it happened. --Norman Mattoon Thomas, 6 time presidential candidate for the Socialist Party of America

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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    The state has passed a law that seals BC's unless the individual allows it to be seen. Obama has provided a COLB (which derives its information from the BC) and it states Obama was born in Hawaii.

    Obama's COLB is a state record proven as specified in 28 USC 1739. The Constitution tells us:

    Full Faith and Credit shall be given in each State to the public Acts, Records, and judicial Proceedings of every other State. And the Congress may by general Laws prescribe the Manner in which such Acts, Records and Proceedings shall be proved, and the Effect thereof. -- Article IV, Section 1


    Obama's proof that he meets a requirement of the Constitution is the very kind of record the Constitution grants full faith and credit.

    BTW, George. We may disagree on just about everything, but I am aware you are way too intelligent to buy into the birther movement.
    I guess I should have said that I know HOW they did it. I don't know how they are getting away with it. It's a little hard to believe that they haven't found a court to order the release.
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    Quote Originally Posted by txgp17 View Post
    Did she offer up a copy of the BC to substantiate here statement?It wasn't a "renouncement" libtard, it was an act of showing intent to be an Indonesian citizen.It isn't Indonesian law, it's American law that prohibited dual citizenship. At that time, when you became an Indonesian Citizen, you automatically lost American Citizenship, based on American Laws.

    This is like explaining hydraulics to a nitwit who thinks all hose is the same.I doesn't matter what you think. The only thing that matters is what our SCOTUS thinks.Ground Zero according to who? You and your liberal wet dreams who still think that the Iraq War cost $3,000,000,000,000.00?Again, according to who besides you? MSNBC would sell their soul to the devil to protect Hussein and his precious socialist mandate. According to them, and other libtards like you, anyone who opposes Hussein is a racist. Liberals have abandoned the effort to defend the policies against accusations of socialism, because they all know it is socialism. The can't defend their ideas so they resort to attacking the messengers.
    Only problem is you would have a difficult time proving a 10 year old boy was willfully renouncing his citizenship because he was forced to attend a school in a foreign country because his parents moved there.

    Please keep those laughs coming. Even my conservative friends think the birthers are entertaining.

    Who am I to argue when I can point to you as an example?
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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    Only problem is you would have a difficult time proving a 10 year old boy was willfully renouncing his citizenship because he was forced to attend a school in a foreign country because his parents moved there.

    Please keep those laughs coming. Even my conservative friends think the birthers are entertaining.

    Who am I to argue when I can point to you as an example?
    Just curious here, but by the same token then can a 10 year old boy become a citizen?

    The problem with the whole Birther movement is that Obama has not been all that transparent on the issue. If he had come forth with the real deal instead of acting like he had something to hide it would die. Same for his records from his college years which he is not all that proud of.

    You have to admit, he has been less than forthcoming about a lot of his past.

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