Thread: Confined Space

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    Default Confined Space

    My department is building a training simulator. My question is what is considered confined space in the fire service. This this is going to be like 20 foot by 20 foot, 2 stories. The walls are maybe 20inches wide. It is very tight and has limited access to the inside. Should we be concerned with this at all or is everything ok? Thanks for everyone's input.

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    What is is going to be used for? The specs are a little confusing as well.
    Jason Brooks
    IAFF Local 2388
    IACOJ

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    Quote Originally Posted by bryfire10 View Post
    My department is building a training simulator. My question is what is considered confined space in the fire service. This this is going to be like 20 foot by 20 foot, 2 stories. The walls are maybe 20inches wide. It is very tight and has limited access to the inside. Should we be concerned with this at all or is everything ok? Thanks for everyone's input.
    I would hault construction immediately until you can at least answer that question for yourself.
    RK
    cell #901-494-9437

    Management is making sure things are done right. Leadership is doing the right thing. The fire service needs alot more leaders and a lot less managers.

    "Everyone goes home" is the mantra for the pussification of the modern, American fire service.


    Comments made are my own. They do not represent the official position or opinion of the Fire Department or the City for which I am employed. In fact, they are normally exactly the opposite.

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    A confined space is

    Something big enough to get into
    limited egress and ingress
    not designed for continuous occupany

    I agree with MemphisE34a

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    Default Purpose?

    What purpose is this being used for? What are you training for?

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    I would consult your OSHA regulations on confined spaces. OSHA clearly states what a confined space program should look like including personnel requirements, training, equipment and compliance. Also look at the NFPA standard on technical rescue.

    Starting a confined space program without this guidance could cost you big in not only non-compliance, but putting personnel at risk! My department is just beginning to get into confined space and the planning is very in depth and time consuming. We have also submitted for grant assistance due to the start up costs involved.

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    The average confined space simulator is NOT a confined space. But you have to build it that way. It is great to train in actual confined spaces,however at a training center you should be simulating the conditions found in real life.
    Once people are trained and used to CS then going out and training in the actual cs that you will respond to is appropriate.
    A CS simulator is not air tight , doesn't have the potential to contain bad air, has the ability to get out multiple places, it is designed for occupancy so evaluators can watch in safety. 29 cfr 1910.146 and NFPA 1670/1006 has all the cs info you will need, as well as training prop guidelines.

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    Default The Temple of Doom

    At Carrum Downs in Australia we have the Temple of Doom. In a converted sewage works it is a five story round concrete structure with one story protruding above ground level. Each level is set up to simulate a type of building use. ie beds kitchen etc. Being a round structure you become very disorientated and it is very challenging. Sounds like a disaster for safety however it has been in use for many years and appropriate safety modifications have been made to conform to current standards.
    Disclaimer
    These views are my own and not of either my brigade or any other organisation.

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    One of the pieces I have used in confined space rescue consists of several concrete culverts put end-to-end, with sandbags used to keep them from rolling. They're not put together tightly so there's no risk of bad air, but a tarp is thrown over the whole thing to keep it dark.

    It makes for a challenging simulation without huge expense.

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