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  1. #26
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    Amazing video. Great example of what venting can do to change the dynamics of a fire.

    The music on the video is godawful though. Thankfully i have mute

  2. #27
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    Awesome...just awesome. I can see how a lawn ornament wouldn't touch this one. Everyone is in full ppe, RIT team is standing by and I'll guarantee the roof crew sounded every inch they stepped on before there 1st cut (This will be a cut & paste for our next kitchen table talk)

  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by EngineCo16 View Post
    That ventialtion job wokred very well on this fire. But where I work if it was a contents fire and not in the attic and they breeched the attic by vertical ventilating then we just opened a big can of worms and made a much bigger fire then we ever wanted. Ventilation has it's place and time, be it horizontal or vertical, and several factors determine which is the best for a specific fire. Coordination is the key though in the end.
    Typically, ventilation is a coordinated event. The truck guys are on the roof venting and the engine guys are going inside to put the fire out so that they don't "open a big can of worms and made a much bigger fire then we ever wanted."

    See, you put the fire out. Where is it you work?
    RK
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    "Everyone goes home" is the mantra for the pussification of the modern, American fire service.


    Comments made are my own. They do not represent the official position or opinion of the Fire Department or the City for which I am employed. In fact, they are normally exactly the opposite.

  4. #29
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    I am aware of black smoke meaning the fire is "cooking" and light colored smoke meaning its pretty much out or being knocked on. However in the video there was plenty of brown dirt-colored smoke. Brown smoke means? Is it like black smoke?
    Kyle
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  5. #30
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    Brownish/yellow smoke usually means untreated wood is burning.

  6. #31
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    Also means it's time to get it opened up:NOW! Good job by a crew that obviously knows it's first due. We have similar buildings and I would have done the same thing. That type of building will take quite a lot of fire and still be safe enough to operate on/in. Classic vertical vent operation,a NICE job. T.C.

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    Thanks for the answer Solo and Rescue.
    Kyle
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  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScooterUMT56 View Post
    I am aware of black smoke meaning the fire is "cooking" and light colored smoke meaning its pretty much out or being knocked on. However in the video there was plenty of brown dirt-colored smoke. Brown smoke means? Is it like black smoke?
    In addition to what they said, it also means structural members are most likely involved, I.E. the untreated wood.
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    I don't mind fire rolling over my head. I just don't like it rolling UNDER my a**.

  9. #34
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    What GT says,Brownish or yellowish smoke that is under "pressure"is combustible heat decaying wood that is looking for oxygen to put you in low orbit around the moon.You DON'T have a lot of time to vent it or your day is going to get real bad,real quick. We had one the other night,the crew got to divison two landing and got stopped by a wall of heat. A 4x8 in the roof and a few removed second story windows and they were able to make the push.

  10. #35
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    Thanks for making that point. If the fire gets to the stage of structural members being involved enough to influence the color of the smoke, you need to evaluate the risk vs. benifit of putting someone on the roof to ventilate. This is especially true with the common lightweight truss construction in most residential applications today.

    If you MUST send someone to the roof to ventilate, make sure they work from a roof ladder and get it done as quick as possible.
    Last edited by GTRider245; 09-19-2009 at 12:44 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rescue101 View Post
    I don't mind fire rolling over my head. I just don't like it rolling UNDER my a**.

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    Hey all this is my first post on here but i have to say with the amount of structural involvement as evidenced by the color of the smoke that is an aweful risky cut. If there was a report of people trapped I say awesome job!! If it was just to save the rundown crack house I have got to think that is a lot of risk for minimal gain.

  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coastie01 View Post
    Hey all this is my first post on here but i have to say with the amount of structural involvement as evidenced by the color of the smoke that is an aweful risky cut. If there was a report of people trapped I say awesome job!! If it was just to save the rundown crack house I have got to think that is a lot of risk for minimal gain.
    You can't tell how much was involved by the color of smoke.
    Last edited by ChiefKN; 09-19-2009 at 11:04 AM.
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  13. #38
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    Default windows

    Take the windows out and there is no need to vent the roof. If the fire is in the attick, pull the ceiling and put it out.
    PGFD

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    Quote Originally Posted by allpro View Post
    Take the windows out and there is no need to vent the roof. If the fire is in the attick, pull the ceiling and put it out.
    Yea, like this..http://firefightersafety.net/videos....rectlink&id=39


    Vertical ventilation is preferred in gaseous fires as these, The likelihood of feeding in fresh cool air from a window is too high... Ka-Boom......

    When you put the hole in the roof, The stovepipe affect shuts of the inflow of oxygen and allows the safe removal of the super heated gas's and heat.. It's better for the victims, and it's better for us..

    You wouldn't break out the windows on a smoldering fire would you??
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    The only way to compensate for actual incident experience is to be trained properly, using established and accepted criteria, by those experienced enough to actually know what they are talking about.

  15. #40
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    Did anybody else notice the guy going into the building in that video not wearing a hood?
    Kyle
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  16. #41
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    If there was ever a poster child for a VERTICLE vent,that's it! Don't know why roof venting has become somewhat of a lost art lately.Particularly with so many Platforms being purchased.Get your crews in place,THEN vent. T.C.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SoloBlitz View Post
    Yea, like this..http://firefightersafety.net/videos....rectlink&id=39


    Vertical ventilation is preferred in gaseous fires as these, The likelihood of feeding in fresh cool air from a window is too high... Ka-Boom......

    When you put the hole in the roof, The stovepipe affect shuts of the inflow of oxygen and allows the safe removal of the super heated gas's and heat.. It's better for the victims, and it's better for us..

    You wouldn't break out the windows on a smoldering fire would you??
    Actually that is exactly right. First you need a line in place. The fire comming out of the windows looks spectacular, but along with the flames goes the heat. If you are the first arriving engine on a single family; why wait for a truck to arrive to vent the roof? An aggressive interior attack does well while the crew vents as they go and the driver does his part outside.
    PGFD

  18. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by allpro View Post
    Actually that is exactly right. First you need a line in place. The fire comming out of the windows looks spectacular, but along with the flames goes the heat. If you are the first arriving engine on a single family; why wait for a truck to arrive to vent the roof? An aggressive interior attack does well while the crew vents as they go and the driver does his part outside.
    I'm sorry, I disagree...

    First, Horizontal ventilation is most effective in fires that are in the incipient stage.. After more of the room and contents become involved, The fire will release more heat/ hazardous by-products than you can release on a 'natural' lateral plane..

    Secondly, There's more than meet's the eye apparently when it comes to that "Spectacular looking fire".. I'll bet the temp in that room went up over 1500 degrees when it ignited.. And what blew out the windows, Probably blew down the hallways as well.

    Don't get me wrong, There's a time for Horizontal ventilation... But Not Here... With the benefit of gravity, and the releasing of the super heated gas's at the "Highest" point. Vertical Ventilation is much more effective,
    With alot less side effects.

    Finally, The M word........ ma ma MANPOWER.... I don't have to wait long, Neither does HFD (mostly), So it would logically make more sense to put some dudes on the roof.. It's just automatic..

    Stay Safe...
    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    The only way to compensate for actual incident experience is to be trained properly, using established and accepted criteria, by those experienced enough to actually know what they are talking about.

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