1. #1
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    Default Segregated Fire companies?

    Firehouse expo discussion, FDNY exam article

    Was I the only one to notice the unquestionably disgusting suggestions put forth by invited commentators to the Firehouse expo?

    The article above cites the comments made by a few chiefs who apparently agree with racial spoils systems and favortism and patronage in hiring for fire departments everywhere. As well as suggesting that departments, companies and units be formed largely on using the predominant race of a neighborhood as a basis for who works where.

    Aren't all men created equal?

    Lets examine the statements as written in the above article:

    Cassano -- who was appointed chief in 2006 and previously served as Chief of Operations since September 2001 -- made the point that the city's minorities didn't have a direct connection to the job that would lead them to apply. He stated that many white males applied for the job because they had a family member who currently or used to be employed by the FDNY. ]
    They are some whites with family history OTJ (not unlike any other field or endevor over all of human history)...however it is a gross mischaracterization that most have connections to the job(I had NO family OTJ), also forgeting those connections do NOTHING to get one hired. Furthermore the job had over 1000 blacks on the job in the 1970s...if the theory of family connections benefits persons seeking employment...why hasn't their been an exponential gain in black membership since the 70s? Why has the population declined? Where are the sons and grandsons and nephews of the men who were on the job 30+ years ago. Clearly this theory is without merit.

    During the discussion, Clack interjected that in the 1970s, the Minneapolis Fire Department -- where he was employed for 22 years and served as chief for just less than two years before moving to Baltimore -- was 100 percent white, 100 percent male.
    So this has what to do with hiring today? That was over 30 years go...almost 2 full generations of firemen have come and gone in that time period. This is almost 2010....NOT 1970.

    Here brothers is where it gets ugly....(following quote from Grand Wizzard Jim Clack)

    "You must have people who look like the community they go into," he said. "(Recruiting minorities) is not free. You can't just put an ad in the paper and expect people who aren't familiar with the job to apply."
    So the if I work in a neighborhood of predominantly middle to upperclass professional Caucasian Protestants and Jews, the Black, Asian and hispanic members I work with should be transfered to Harlem, Flushing and Sunset Park?

    Why can't you put an ad in a paper and other media outlets as has been done for 100 years for all types of careers and jobs? Why does anyone need to cater to a certain group of people (this group categorized largely based on the color of their skin and nothing more)

    If a guy is Irish he should be assigned to a neighborhood with Irish in it? A black can't serve as a fireman in a white neighborhood?

    Earlier this week I posted a link to photos showing mostly white firemen doing a pretty d@mn good job at trying to save the lives of a number of black babies and adults...I guess it would have been better had they had dark skin? Does anyone really take these suggestion seriously?

    Must have people who look like people in the neighborhood? MUST...not should, not we'd like more....but MUST. Implying At all costs regardless of the need to maintain standards of mental and physical abilities and skills. What study has shown a measurable decrease in service delievery in respect to fire department services because the firemen had a different skin color or appearance than the victims and taxpayers they encountered?

    Where is this suggestion supported? ANYONE?

    Does Firehouse.com and Cygnus Business Media really endorse these archaic principles?

    Are these clowns masquerading as Chiefs really not for equal opportunity?

    This isn't EEO...this is bigotry...plain and simple.

    FTM-PTB
    Last edited by FFFRED; 08-05-2009 at 12:59 PM.

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    OH, and this job isnt as dangerous as its made out to be.
    Just another one of the 99%ers looking up.

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    I do find it highly offensive some people suggest I do not try as hard or am able to serve someone else based on the color of their skin in relation to mine.

    These people are the true bigots.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FFFRED View Post
    Firehouse expo discussion, FDNY exam article

    Was I the only one to notice the unquestionably disgusting suggestions put forth by invited commentators to the Firehouse expo?

    The article above cites the comments made by a few chiefs who apparently agree with racial spoils systems and favortism and patronage in hiring for fire departments everywhere. As well as suggesting that departments, companies and units be formed largely on using the predominant race of a neighborhood as a basis for who works where.

    Aren't all men created equal?

    Lets examine the statements as written in the above article:



    They are some whites with family history OTJ (not unlike any other field or endevor over all of human history)...however it is a gross mischaracterization that most have connections to the job(I had NO family OTJ), also forgeting those connections do NOTHING to get one hired. Furthermore the job had over 1000 blacks on the job in the 1970s...if the theory of family connections benefits persons seeking employment...why hasn't their been an exponential gain in black membership since the 70s? Why has the population declined? Where are the sons and grandsons and nephews of the men who were on the job 30+ years ago. Clearly this theory is without merit.



    So this has what to do with hiring today? That was over 30 years go...almost 2 full generations of firemen have come and gone in that time period. This is almost 2010....NOT 1970.

    Here brothers is where it gets ugly....(following quote from Grand Wizzard Jim Clack)



    So the if I work in a neighborhood of predominantly middle to upperclass professional Caucasian Protestants and Jews, the Black, Asian and hispanic members I work with should be transfered to Harlem, Flushing and Sunset Park?

    Why can't you put an ad in a paper and other media outlets as has been done for 100 years for all types of careers and jobs? Why does anyone need to cater to a certain group of people (this group categorized largely based on the color of their skin and nothing more)

    If a guy is Irish he should be assigned to a neighborhood with Irish in it? A black can't serve as a fireman in a white neighborhood?

    Earlier this week I posted a link to photos showing mostly white firemen doing a pretty d@mn good job at trying to save the lives of a number of black babies and adults...I guess it would have been better had they had dark skin? Does anyone really take these suggestion seriously?

    Must have people who look like people in the neighborhood? MUST...not should, not we'd like more....but MUST. Implying At all costs regardless of the need to maintain standards of mental and physical abilities and skills. What study has shown a measurable decrease in service delievery in respect to fire department services because the firemen had a different skin color or appearance than the victims and taxpayers they encountered?

    Where is this suggestion supported? ANYONE?

    Does Firehouse.com and Cygnus Business Media really endorse these archaic principles?

    Are these clowns masquerading as Chiefs really not for equal opportunity?

    This isn't EEO...this is bigotry...plain and simple.

    FTM-PTB
    Plain and simple. Political correctness and pandering for politicians run amok!

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    Thumbs down Flawed logic...

    Hey FFFred,
    Following Cassano's logic, who would be the FF's in Borough Park and Brighton Beach? Fires would rage uncontrolled on Friday nights and Saturdays.

    I'm astonished (well, not really) that guys in command staff would sell out their own agency with logic that they themselves know to be flawed in the interest of political correctness. It's been my experience that the guys who have taken advantage of all the nepotism on the job are the first ones to b*tch about it. Cassano knows better than to make a bold statement about current and former relatives on the job.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Res45cuE View Post
    Hey FFFred,
    Following Cassano's logic, who would be the FF's in Borough Park and Brighton Beach? Fires would rage uncontrolled on Friday nights and Saturdays.

    I'm astonished (well, not really) that guys in command staff would sell out their own agency with logic that they themselves know to be flawed in the interest of political correctness. It's been my experience that the guys who have taken advantage of all the nepotism on the job are the first ones to b*tch about it. Cassano knows better than to make a bold statement about current and former relatives on the job.
    I'm not as asstonished that these men would say it, there are bigots and small minded influence pedlers in all occupations, including our own...but that firehouse.com and Cygnus Business Media would sponsor these men and allow them to express their disgusting views and repeat them in an article that doesn't question the very fact that according to at least one chief with the implicit support of the others in attendance that a black fireman can't be sent into a predominantly white neighborhood because he doesn't look like them!

    If you don't accept that statement...the reverse is equally illigitimate as well.

    I didn't even address the quote where the DC chief insists that the priority is "diversity" and not hiring the best employees for the fire department REGARDLESS of race, nationality or whatever is fashionable this week. Seems a bit contradictory to me.

    After all that is what is told to us during EEO class.

    Anyone else think Firehouse and these chiefs should explain themselves? Hiring people who espouse these views shouldn't be accepted by a society who despises racist beliefs.

    I for one think their suggestions are appalling and should be addressed forthwith.

    FTM-PTB

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    I agree with all of the above.

    I guess only white firemen go into white neighborhoods and the rest burn then.
    Jason Knecht
    Assistant Chief
    Altoona Fire Dept.
    Altoona, WI

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    Race is such a difficult issue for this country. The statements are sure puzzling and you wonder why the felt compelled to make them.

    Do we sometimes confuse racial differences with cultural differences?
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

    "The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list."

    "When tempted to fight fire with fire, remember that the Fire Department usually uses water."

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    Post Well............

    You guys don't have a leg to stand on. Every time an arguement starts here over levels of Services provided by your Department, I hear (read) Blatantly Discriminatory Statements. "No Paramedics in my Station!......" "I want nothing to do with EMS...." "Real Firefighters don't do EMS.......".



































    May I help the next in line, Please??....
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    Asst. Chief John R. Woods Sr. 1937 - 2006

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