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  1. #261
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    Quote Originally Posted by firemanjb View Post
    I may be funny, but you are clueless. The federal budget is on an October 1 cycle, first off. Second, regardless of what Bush did or didn't do, you were WRONG about your facts. Third, your antipathy of Bush is based partly on him adding $4.9 trillion in debt in 8 years...yet you give Obama a pass on racking up 25% of that in just ONE year.
    I guess I should have read on. I see many have caught him in his clueless state again.


  2. #262
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    Quote Originally Posted by txgp17 View Post
    Your knowledge of this alleged "free market" is as accurate as your knowledge of the Federal Government's fiscal year.

    Government efforts to force companies to make loans to people who couldn't pay back the loans, cause this massive mess. At one point, Fannie Mae & Freddie Mac reached a market share of over 80% of all new mortgages in 2008. When a Government controlled entity takes that much share of the market, it isn't "free" anymore.

    One of the methods used by statists (like scfire86) to destroy capitalism consists in establishing controls that tie a given industry hand and foot, making it unable to solve its problems, then declaring that freedom has failed and stronger controls are necessary.
    Yea, it seems that a lot of people seem to forget that the sub-prime mortgage crisis was caused by Freddie and Fannie. The housing market collapse was the catalyst that set the ball in motion, that coupled with high fuel prices in the summer of 2008 caused the economy to tank. Cool part was that I saw it coming. In September of 2008 I took all of my 401k investments out of stocks and placed them in a Schwab CD that only gets 4% interest (Guaranteed). Admittedly, my selling of the stocks was part of the problem. But you have to look out for number 1 in these instances. In December it appeared to have leveled off so I put it back. There were some nervous times over the next 4 months as it dropped deeper, but I had already saved about 30%. Once the market hit a point where the stocks looked like they were at bargain prices people began to buy back into them again. We simply went through a correction just like the one in the early 2000s with the dot com bubble bust. A lot of people don't seem to get that the economy will have natural ups and downs, and the government is powerless to stop it. All government can do is help people get through the down times.

  3. #263
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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    Really? You really think this whole mess was only caused by FM/FM? This is almost as naive as your belief that Obama isn't a citizen.

    The banking industry seems to have a major crisis almost every ten years. Left to its own devices it is hardly an industry that actually cares about anyone else other than those who directly benefit. For a group that claims to embrace the "free market" they have no problem demanding socialization of their losses with the threat of collapsing the entire economy if they aren't bailed out.
    Imagine you are a bank. You need cash. Let me ask the government, worse they can do is say no. And if they give ti to me great. If they don't I figure out a different way. Our government leaders were so easily duped they just handed them the cash. So who are the idiots here, certainly not the banks.

  4. #264
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    Quote Originally Posted by firemanjb View Post
    Only a mortgage crisis? No, I agree, it is not. It is also fueled by unabated consumerism...the recent American drive to have everything, even if it meant unbearable debt. It seems Americans as a whole were living like their government...just keep buying and don't worry about paying for it. I thought the classic example of this was the Chase Bank credit card ad, where the man goes out to buy a widescreen TV, with Queen singing "I want it all and I want it now" in the background.

    It was also fueled by people/entities buying securities they did not understand. There was also the capitalist drive to constantly increase profits, which led to greater risk taking. That risk taking included offering 100% mortgages, interest only mortgages and the like to allow people to buy houses they truly could not afford. This drove up home prices artificially, as more people were in the market for homes.

    It's interesting people bemoan bank fees, yet when interest rates converged, the banks could not profit from the normal spread of loan interest against savings interest. They have to make money from somewhere.

    And there were several banks that were FORCED to take bailout money. At least one was not allowed to repay its bailout money, because the government refused to allow them out of supervision.
    Interesting you bring up the securities. Personally, I think that the existence of 401k plans actually contributed to the problem as well. Prior to 401k plans many average citizens didn't buy stocks or mutual funds. Now with 401k plans nearly every working American is investing in stocks and bonds. This lead to a huge surplus of funds in the markets and overly inflated prices. There was no doubt that the markets would self correct at some time.

  5. #265
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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    Really? You really think this whole mess was only caused by FM/FM?
    You won't find the term "only" anywhere in my post. Again you try to put words in others peoples mouth to attribute a trumped up statement to them that they did not say. The causes are complex, but the driving force is clearly government intervention. On it's own, a "for profit" firm would never choose to lend money to risky borrowers who are likely to default on the loan.
    • the Fed keeping interest rates below the rate of inflation, thus encouraging people to borrow and providing the impetus for a housing bubble
    • the Community Reinvestment Act, which forces banks to lend money to low-income and poor-credit households
    • the creation of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac with government-guaranteed debt leading to artificially low mortgage rates and the illusion that the financial instruments created by bundling them are low risk
    • government-licensed rating agencies, which gave AAA ratings to mortgage-backed securities, creating a false sense of confidence
    • deposit insurance and the “too big to fail” doctrine, whose bailout promises have created huge distortions in incentives and risk-taking throughout the financial system
    • and so on.
    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    You continue to prove through your inability to read simple English.
    Hypocrite.
    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    This is almost as naive as your belief that Obama isn't a citizen.
    Why don't you try figuring out what a fiscal year is first before you start blaming this mess on "greed" like you already have over and over.

    BTW, do you know what me and Stevie Wonder have in common?
    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    The banking industry seems to have a major crisis almost every ten years. Left to its own devices it is hardly an industry that actually cares about anyone else other than those who directly benefit.
    Spoken like a true communist. The purpose of a business to maximize profit, to make money. If it compromises on other goals, and fails to make a profit, then it fails. A business depends on it's customers to support profits in the long-term. When a business fails, it should be allowed to fail. That's one major way to discern between successful and unsuccessful firms.

    Blaming economic crises on "greed" is like blaming plane crashes on gravity. Certainly planes wouldn't crash if it wasn't for gravity. But when thousands of planes fly millions of miles every day without crashing, explaining why a particular plane crashed because of gravity gets you nowhere.
    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    For a group that claims to embrace the "free market" they have no problem demanding socialization of their losses with the threat of collapsing the entire economy if they aren't bailed out.
    Again, you attempt to attribute the actions of others, to me. I never endorsed "bailing out" anyone.
    Last edited by txgp17; 08-26-2009 at 01:14 PM.
    The American people will never knowingly adopt Socialism. But under the name of 'liberalism' they will adopt every fragment of the Socialist program, until one day America will be a Socialist nation, without knowing how it happened. --Norman Mattoon Thomas, 6 time presidential candidate for the Socialist Party of America

  6. #266
    Forum Member scfire86's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by moonbat
    Spoken like a true communist. The purpose of a business to maximize profit, to make money. If it compromises on other goals, and fails to make a profit, then it fails. A business depends on it's customers to support profits in the long-term. When a business fails, it should be allowed to fail. That's one major way to discern between successful and unsuccessful firms.
    I always like it when moonbats such as yourself call me a communist. Given the amount of capital I own the commies would take me out and shoot me at the edge of town if they ever invaded and were successful. It only proves you have no idea about your subject.

    I have no problem with a company making a profit. I do have a problem with a business making profits to the point where if they fail they have dramatic impact on the rest of the economy and people completed unrelated to their business.

    Stevie Wonder can see the difference. But it escapes you.

    I asked a simple question. You responded with encyclopedia length cut and paste nonsense.

    Let's try again.

    Show me one example where a bank was forced to make a loan to someone.
    Last edited by scfire86; 08-26-2009 at 01:36 PM.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

  7. #267
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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    I always like it when moonbats such as yourself call me a communist. Given the amount of capital I own the commies would take me out and shoot me at the edge of town if they ever invaded and were successful. It only proves you have no idea about your subject.

    I have no problem with a company making a profit. I do have a problem with a business making profits to the point where if they fail they have dramatic impact on the rest of the economy and people completed unrelated to their business.

    Stevie Wonder can see the difference. But it escapes you.

    I asked a simple question. You responded with encyclopedia length cut and paste nonsense.

    Let's try again.

    Show me one example where a bank was forced to make a loan to someone.
    Not for nothing, but many of your comments and thoughts come straight out of the Communist Manifesto. Of course as one who is a member of the elite class you would get to keep your stuff.

  8. #268
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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    Easy to say. You're not the one that would have to deal with an angry populace if the entire economy collapsed.
    Easy to say, and easy to do. Large percentages of our nation were against this being done. Now they have to deal with large percentages of the population being upset that they did it.

    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    Please point to one loan that a bank was forced to give at the urging of Barney Frank.
    Not one in particular, but since you are not smart or educated I suppose I shall have to once again explain things to you. You see, Mr. Frank appointed a former lover to one of these agencies, and he - as well as numerous other committee members - fought several attempts to revamp and restrict the loans being given out. Some Republicans, and many financial advisers warned them that loaning out money in the amounts and numbers that they were was unsustainable. Yet they refused to tighten the reigns.......so now people who were too stupid to make good financial decisions took the maximum the bank would give them, bought a house too big for them, and they paid too much for it.

    Using your logic, since Mr. Frank was the ranking minority member for several years on the oversight committee he bears some responsibility here. Then he took over the chairmanship of the committee and continued to do nothing, and just a few months before the mortgage market collapsed last year he was saying that Fannie and Freddie were financially sound.....even calling them good investments.

    Alas, you not being smart or educated (your own words here) you probably think that he has nothing to do with it.

    Some day you may actually be able to realize that politicians - regardless of their political party - really don't give a shyte about you and rarely act out of any other concern than themselves and the expansion of their power and influence.

    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    Agreed. Even the former Chair of the SEC admitted this.
    Then why is Congress considering these laws and not firing the morons that run the agencies and the agents that did not do their job? Politics.
    "Too many people spend money they haven't earned, to buy things they don't want, to impress people they don't like." Will Rogers

    The borrower is slave to the lender. Proverbs 22:7 - Debt free since 10/5/2009.

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  9. #269
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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    I always like it when moonbats such as yourself call me a communist.
    At least you've accepted the truth. I like it when libtards like you call me a conservative, and that's because I am.
    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    Given the amount of capital that my wife allows me to own
    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    It only proves you have no idea about your subject.
    It only fails to prove it in your isolated, gated community fantasy world.
    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    I do have a problem with a business making profits to the point where if they fail they have dramatic impact on the rest of the economy and people completed unrelated to their business.
    Newton's 3rd Law of Motion applies to economics just as it does to physics. For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. When even one homeowner forecloses, it has an effect on the market. Government intervention encouraged lending to risky borrowers, resulting in a wave of foreclosures, who's effect as a whole surpassed being cumulative and became synergistic.
    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    Stevie Wonder can see the difference. But it escapes you.
    Hussein promised to run the most transparent White House in history. If Hussein is so transparent, why hide the BC? Looks like we can file that "transparency pledge" into the same category as his campaign's intentions to accept public financing in the general election.
    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    I asked a simple question.
    And you were given a simple answer. Your mental inferiority is not my, or anyone else's responsibility, despite your overwhelming desire to turn this country into a welfare state.
    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    You responded with encyclopedia length cut and paste nonsense.
    WTF? My post is a little over 300 words, while you post almost 1,200 words of garbage that you C&P'd of the net. Yet you want to criticize me having long posts that aren't my own words. You never fail to prove just how hypocritical libtards really are.
    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    Show me one example where a bank was forced to make a loan to someone.
    Once again your logic is flawed. It's like déjà vu all over again. You can't point to any one loan and say that's a "CRA" loan. What you can do is point to where the government used its regulation powers to punish banks for not adhering to the CRA like they thought the bank should.

    There is no regulation that says "Acme Bank must make a home mortgage load to John Doe or else." No lending institution kept separate records for their CRA motivated loans segregated from their regular loans.

    Congress passed a bill in 1975 requiring banks to provide the government with information on their lending activities in poor urban areas. Two years later, it passed the CRA, which gave regulators the power to deny banks the right to expand if they didn’t lend sufficiently in those neighborhoods.

    In 1979, the FDIC used the CRA to turn down an application by the Greater New York Savings Bank to open a branch on the Upper East Side of Manhattan. The government contended that the bank didn’t lend enough in Brooklyn, its home market.

    Soon after the Greater New York ruling, for instance, the Federal Home Loan Bank Board told a Toledo, Ohio, bank that it had to eliminate its practice of lending only to its current customers during times when funds were tight. The Bank Board would not have any authority to do so where it not for the CRA.

    In 1980, the FDIC told a Maryland bank that it couldn’t expand unless it started lending in the District of Columbia, even though the bank had no branches there. How else would the FDIC know who the Maryland bank was lending to where it not for the CRA requiring them to report their lending data to Big Brother?

    Bill Clinton's housing secretary, Henry Cisneros, declared that he would expand home-ownership among lower and lower-middle-income renters. His strategy: pushing for no-down-payment loans; expanding the size of mortgages that the government would insure against losses; and using the CRA and other lending laws to direct more private money into low-income programs. Shortly after Cisneros announced his plan, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac agreed to begin buying loans under new, looser guidelines.

    The Clinton/Cisnero's scheme had three major points:
    • Increase the allowable size of mortgage payment, relative to monthly income;
    • Loosen requirements dealing with the borrower's savings history.
    • Loosen the "Basic Income Verification Standards." Included in this were counting public assistance, like food stamps, to be counted as income.
    The CRA only applied to banks, it didn't apply to non-banking institutions that made mortgage loans. The Clinton Administration would later threaten to expand the CRA to cover all mortgage lending institutions, if they didn't comply with the "lower" lending standards.
    Last edited by txgp17; 08-28-2009 at 05:01 PM.
    The American people will never knowingly adopt Socialism. But under the name of 'liberalism' they will adopt every fragment of the Socialist program, until one day America will be a Socialist nation, without knowing how it happened. --Norman Mattoon Thomas, 6 time presidential candidate for the Socialist Party of America

  10. #270
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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    Considering the rural areas benefit from the programs funded by urban areas (ie crop subsidies) this is a quite a disconnect.
    Considering all you lying libtards would starve if not for the subsidies, you should be grateful. If that isn't the position you put forth right here, then please explain the expulsion from your forked tongue more in detail.
    The American people will never knowingly adopt Socialism. But under the name of 'liberalism' they will adopt every fragment of the Socialist program, until one day America will be a Socialist nation, without knowing how it happened. --Norman Mattoon Thomas, 6 time presidential candidate for the Socialist Party of America

  11. #271
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    I love this!

    http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/08/...fle/index.html

    What is even better is that MSNBC ran this story claiming this guy was a racist and that was the reason he brought guns to an Obama speech. The video they aired only showed the guy's 2 guns and his back, not the guy himself. After Fox aired video of the guy showing he was black MSNBC dropped the racist claim.
    Last edited by Firemedic 61; 09-20-2009 at 12:19 PM.
    If your going to cry about doing the job you signed up for do us all a favor and quit, there are plenty of dedicated people standing in line for the best job in the world.

    Firefighter/Paramedic

  12. #272
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firemedic 61 View Post
    I love this!

    http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/08/...fle/index.html

    What is even better is that MSNBC ran this story claiming this guy was a racist and that was the reason he brought guns to an Obama speech. The video they aired only showed the guy's 2 guns and his back, not the guy himself. After Fox aired video of the guy showing he was black MSNBC dropped the racist claim.
    LMAO!!!! Looks Like MSNBC showed their true colors. What a bunch of moronic twits.

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