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  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThNozzleman View Post
    Gee, I wonder what you guys would be saying if this had happened a few years ago at an event where Bush the Lesser was present...and the ones "exercising their Second Amendment rights" were Americans of Middle Eastern descent?
    Those guys (arab-americans) probably would have the most reason to carry a gun to protect themselves. Remember all the hate towards that group following the events of 9/11 and even today.
    "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Benjamin Franklin

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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    So how exactly was the blood of patriots and tyrants going be obtained to refresh the tree of liberty? Are all these people going to hanging out at the tree of liberty and have nosebleeds?
    Most of the quotes that come from the time this country was founded advocated the violent overthrow of a tyrannical government. The Constitution was written to protect us from over bearing and overly oppressive governments. Governments at all levels have become exactly what they are not supposed to be. Over the last 100 years they have increased taxes, regulations, laws, and oppressed the people. If our idiots in charge continue the people will have no choice but to rise up and revolt.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    Most of the quotes that come from the time this country was founded advocated the violent overthrow of a tyrannical government. The Constitution was written to protect us from over bearing and overly oppressive governments. Governments at all levels have become exactly what they are not supposed to be. Over the last 100 years they have increased taxes, regulations, laws, and oppressed the people. If our idiots in charge continue the people will have no choice but to rise up and revolt.
    Germany, with a more recent and violent history, has an interesting clause in our Basic Law:

    Article 20:

    (1) The Federal Republic of Germany is a democratic and social federal state.

    (2) All state authority is derived from the people. It shall be exercised by the people through elections and other votes and through specific legislative, executive, and judicial bodies.

    (3) The legislature shall be bound by the constitutional order, the executive and the judiciary by law and justice.

    (4) All Germans shall have the right to resist any person seeking to abolish this constitutional order, if no other remedy is available.
    Our Basic Law basically calls on Germans to rise up against the state, if said state is trying to infringe upon the Basic Law.
    "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Benjamin Franklin

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    Quote Originally Posted by MarcusKspn View Post
    Germany, with a more recent and violent history, has an interesting clause in our Basic Law:



    Our Basic Law basically calls on Germans to rise up against the state, if said state is trying to infringe upon the Basic Law.
    Spent 2 1/2 years over there. I want to go back someday. German Beer!! Autobahns with no speed limit. The knock wurst and bratwurst. It was cool stuff.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ThNozzleman View Post
    Gee, I wonder what you guys would be saying if this had happened a few years ago at an event where Bush the Lesser was present...and the ones "exercising their Second Amendment rights" were Americans of Middle Eastern descent?
    If they were legally carrying firearms, and they were acting peacefully and lawfully, I would have reacted the exact same way as I did for Mr. Kostric.
    PROUD, HONORED AND HUMBLED RECIPIENT OF THE PURPLE HYDRANT AWARD - 10/2007.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ThNozzleman View Post
    Gee, I wonder what you guys would be saying if this had happened a few years ago at an event where Bush the Lesser was present...and the ones "exercising their Second Amendment rights" were Americans of Middle Eastern descent?
    If he starts acting like Cindy Sheehan he should be treated like her. If he acts like people from PETA, Greenpeace, ELF, etc he should be treated like them. Difference I see is that the people on the right demonstrate peacefully while those on the left resort to bullying and violence.

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    The right has just as many crazy protesters as the left. The recent meetings have shown that.
    Last edited by MarcusKspn; 08-16-2009 at 11:23 AM.
    "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Benjamin Franklin

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    Quote Originally Posted by MarcusKspn View Post
    The right has just as many crazy protesters as the left. The recent meetings have shown that.
    Perhaps, but I don't see the right throwing bricks through windows. I don't see the right burning things up and starting riots. The right does have their anti-abortion loonies but that is about it. It just appears that the left resorts to violence and civil disobedience while the right merely states their point in a peaceful manner.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    Perhaps, but I don't see the right throwing bricks through windows. I don't see the right burning things up and starting riots. The right does have their anti-abortion loonies but that is about it. It just appears that the left resorts to violence and civil disobedience while the right merely states their point in a peaceful manner.
    Abortion Clinic attacks, the Minuteman Project, anti-immigration violence and protests, anti-gay protests. All examples of protest from the conservative side that have become violent.

    Both sides have more crazies than they know what to do with.
    "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Benjamin Franklin

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    Quote Originally Posted by MarcusKspn View Post
    Abortion Clinic attacks, the Minuteman Project, anti-immigration violence and protests, anti-gay protests. All examples of protest from the conservative side that have become violent.

    Both sides have more crazies than they know what to do with.
    I mentioned the anti-abortion folks. The Minuteman Project are people stepping up to do what the government is failing at. It's a shame that we can protect the borders of every other country in the world but we can't keep the illegals out of our own country. The illegal immigration protest get out of hand when the illegals (aka non-citizens of the U.S.) show up and cause trouble. I haven't seen too many violent anti-gay protests if any.

    As for the Minutemen, they were attacked on several occasions, they did not instigate the violence. Although I'm not a big fan of WIKI it gets you going

    Minuteman Project

    I found this to be interesting

    Counter protesters[dubious discuss]

    Counterprotestors against the Minutemen have included Anti-Racist Action, International ANSWER, the Revolutionary Communist Party, the Progressive Labor Party, the International Socialist Organization, the AntiMinutemen Defendants, the Free People's Movement, the Bay Area Coalition to Fight the Minutemen, Coalicion Deporten a la Migra, the Brown Berets, the American Indian Movement, the Zapatista Solidarity Coalition, the Philadelphia Revolutionary Marxist Collective, the Sacramento Mexican-American Political Association, the Brown Syndicate, the Brass Liberation Orchestra, the Chicano Consortium, Sacramento Food Not Bombs, anarchists, other anti-conservative, and anti-border enforcement activists.[citation needed]
    Like I said, I don't like Wiki that much and I know not who wrote the article.
    Last edited by ScareCrow57; 08-16-2009 at 01:57 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MarcusKspn View Post
    Both sides have more crazies than they know what to do with.
    What is funny is I have said exactly this. We should get rid of the 20% on each extreme and let those left run the country. Problem is the extremest on each side get lobbyist and create special interest groups that end up ruining it for the rest of us.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ThNozzleman View Post
    Gee, I wonder what you guys would be saying if this had happened a few years ago at an event where Bush the Lesser was present...and the ones "exercising their Second Amendment rights" were Americans of Middle Eastern descent?
    It would be great to see any american exercising their rights.

    It's unfortunate that the liberals are upset by such benign demonstrations.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarcusKspn View Post
    Isn't it ironic that the person with the "deadly weapon" was more peaceful and less of a threat than the "peaceful and unarmed" people screaming at their elected officials and pushing each other inside these town halls ?
    Quite true. That is my point. See scfire86 and the liberal talking heads are making such a huge deal out of a guy who was nothing but respectful of oteher people's points of view and protested simply by carrying a sign making no hostile gestures. Yet they have eluded to these people being violent when there is not a single shred of evidence supporting their point of view, only inuendo and assumptions.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarcusKspn View Post
    Abortion Clinic attacks, the Minuteman Project, anti-immigration violence and protests, anti-gay protests. All examples of protest from the conservative side that have become violent.

    Both sides have more crazies than they know what to do with.
    The anti-abortion acts are not protests. They are crimes. Their "free speech rights" are not protected. They do not belong in this discussion.

    The other things that you mention may occassoinally turn ugly, but they have never turned as violent as some of the protests at events like the World Bank, anti-war rallyes or any of the other anarchist rallies that take place.

    And, the Minuteman Project is most certainly non-violent.
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI View Post
    If they were legally carrying firearms, and they were acting peacefully and lawfully, I would have reacted the exact same way as I did for Mr. Kostric.
    Exactly George. Guys like scfire and Noz make these assumptions without offering any evidence then criticize us for making the same statements as making "hypotheticals."

    I was thinking the exact same thing. Once again, Noz is incapable of making a statement about conservatives or Republicans without the interjection of remarks essentially implying that we are racists. A tired tactic of a liberal incapable of having anything rational to say, or being able to make a point based on facts.
    "Too many people spend money they haven't earned, to buy things they don't want, to impress people they don't like." Will Rogers

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    I am amazed that someone would claim that stopping ILLEGAL ACTIVITIES from occuring is ruining America!!!!

    Do some people actually think that the Minuteman Militia was wrong and ruined our country? They set out to help the law enforcement community to do the job they were understaffed and underfunded (and underappriciated) to do. They are a highly successful orginization, not because the stopped the flow of Illegal Aliens (lawbreakers that free-load and steal our money and jobs) but b/c the brought the issue to the forefront. We unfortunately have slowed in our efforts as citazens to keep it high on the list to help this country.

    If people want to come here there are plenty of ways to do it legally.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    I mentioned the anti-abortion folks. The Minuteman Project are people stepping up to do what the government is failing at. It's a shame that we can protect the borders of every other country in the world but we can't keep the illegals out of our own country. The illegal immigration protest get out of hand when the illegals (aka non-citizens of the U.S.) show up and cause trouble. I haven't seen too many violent anti-gay protests if any.

    As for the Minutemen, they were attacked on several occasions, they did not instigate the violence. Although I'm not a big fan of WIKI it gets you going
    Good to know you advocate violence when you it suits a cause you support.

    I don't see any liberals walking up to a health care reform protestor and shooting him in the face while he's sitting in church.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

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    Quote Originally Posted by ffmedcbk1 View Post
    I am amazed that someone would claim that stopping ILLEGAL ACTIVITIES from occuring is ruining America!!!!

    Do some people actually think that the Minuteman Militia was wrong and ruined our country? They set out to help the law enforcement community to do the job they were understaffed and underfunded (and underappriciated) to do. They are a highly successful orginization, not because the stopped the flow of Illegal Aliens (lawbreakers that free-load and steal our money and jobs) but b/c the brought the issue to the forefront. We unfortunately have slowed in our efforts as citazens to keep it high on the list to help this country.

    If people want to come here there are plenty of ways to do it legally.
    I never said that the Minuteman Project ruined the country.
    "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Benjamin Franklin

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    Quote Originally Posted by MarcusKspn View Post
    I never said that the Minuteman Project ruined the country.

    But you said they were violent.

    All examples of protest from the conservative side that have become violent.
    And they are not.
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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    Good to know you advocate violence when you it suits a cause you support.

    I don't see any liberals walking up to a health care reform protestor and shooting him in the face while he's sitting in church.
    NO!! I advocate fighting back when attacked.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI View Post
    But you said they were violent.



    And they are not.
    ScareCrow said that PETA and Greenpeace was violent. And he agreed that Anti-Abortion protestors are violent.

    I guess it is allright to generalize about all these groups, but not against the Minutemen.

    PETA has peaceful protests, peaceful letter writing campaigns, peaceful members. They have uncovered unethical practices with hidden cameras. Heck, they have naked supermodels on their posters, and they just had some girls in a lettuce bikini at our capitol not too long ago. They also destroy personal property by covering furr with paint, and have vanadlized slaughterhouses and puppy mills.

    Many anti-aborition protesters do nothing more but stand in front of a clinic with a sign. Many do nothing more than write letters and talk to their elected officials. Some do nothing more than vote. Others assault women walking into clinics, workes, and kill doctors. Some firebomb clinics.

    The Minutemen Project has many peaceful members who do nothing more than patrol the borders and assist local agents. They also have members who also belong to the Aryan Nation and National Alliance. They also have members who bully legaly owned mexican businesses. Members who push and threaten others at protests.

    I guess I should not have generalized the Minutemen as a whole group based on the actions of some of their members. But its OK to generalize against everybody else.

    EDITED:

    I had Georges post mixed up with an older post by ScareCrow. I'm sorry, it has been corrected.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarcusKspn View Post

    The Minutemen Project has many peaceful members who do nothing more than patrol the borders and assist local agents. They also have members who also belong to the Aryan Nation and National Alliance. They also have members who bully legaly owned mexican businesses. Members who push and threaten others at protests.

    I guess I should not have generalized the Minutemen as a whole group based on the actions of some of their members. But its OK to generalize against everybody else.
    No problem, it cool. I don't think it is good to gereralize everyone together.




    Side note: I keep telling my wife (as a joke of course) our next family vacation is sitting on the border with binoculars and calling in the illegals to border patrol. She unfortunately didn't want to spend our honeymoon there... darn!
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    ScareCrow said that PETA and Greenpeace was violent. And he agreed that Anti-Abortion protestors are violent.
    That's because you keep reading and paying attention to his uninformed nonsense.

    PETA is a legitimate organization that does not sponsor violent protests. The violent so-called animal rights activists are the Animal Liberation Front.

    Greenpeace is an international environmental organiztion whose members may participate in civil disobedience, but they are essentially non-violent. The violent eco-warriors are the Earth Liberation Front.

    The mistake you made was characterizing the Minutemen Project as violent simply because of the alleged affliations of their members. You can no more prove that ALF members belong to PETA than you can prove that AN members belong to the Minutemen Project.

    I doubt that you can find any violent episodes that hav e been proven to be perpetrated by the MCDC.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ffmedcbk1 View Post
    Side note: I keep telling my wife (as a joke of course) our next family vacation is sitting on the border with binoculars and calling in the illegals to border patrol. She unfortunately didn't want to spend our honeymoon there... darn!
    You can do this from the comfort of your own home.

    http://www.texasborderwatch.com/
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    Quote Originally Posted by idiotboy
    NO!! I advocate fighting back when attacked.
    When was the gunman who murdered Dr. Tiller attacked by him?

    When was Eric Rudolph attacked by those whom he bombed?

    When was Richard Poplawski attacked by the Pittsburgh police he killed because he believed the Obama Administration was going to take his guns?

    When was Jim Adkisson attacked by liberals that required him to fight back by opening fire at a Unitarian church, killing two people, because of his hatred for liberal policies, including its acceptance of gays?
    Last edited by scfire86; 08-17-2009 at 07:53 AM.
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