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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    No argument. What's the purpose of bringing a firearm to a political rally?
    A person who as a child didn't get enough attention?

    Someone who wants to get the attention of the Secret Service?

    Just another tin foil hat wearing maroon?
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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    Were there gun toting liberals attending Bush events? I don't recall anyone concerned about tyranny or their rights being infringed during those years.
    Oh. So unless there are open carrying, they are not a threat?

    Not concerned about their rights being infringed upon? Two words: Patriot Act. Had all the libs crazy.
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    I doubt very much that someone who actually meant to harm your President or a member of the govt would carry a gun openly like that. One problem I do see however, is that their actions, no matter the legallity or right, are probably not helping to get the actual concerns of the citizens heard. Actions like this take the focus away from issues and raise the paranoia of some press and libs and this is what the average person sees. You should see what gets reported in some world news sites on this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BryanLoader View Post
    You should see what gets reported in some world news sites on this.
    I can only imagine. For the most part the rest of the world looks at our pro-gun constitution and US stand on guns with a general "What the F*** is wrong these people, don't they know those things kill people!!!!!" mindset.

    I have had many a long conversations with my German friends about guns and they are simply shocked by the fact that in Oklahoma I can into a Wal-Mart and 10 minutes later walk out with a riffle and a box of bullets. They think that a child raised around a gun will become a psychopathic killer.

    Do I think these people are making fools out of themselves by walking around Obama decked out in guns? Yes I do. But they are not breaking the law, and thats all that matters.

    Are they simply making the point that "No democratic president will take away my right to bear arms"? Are they having more sinister motives? Nobody knows but the people that are walking around with the weapons. Are they helping their cause, or are they just causing bad PR? Who knows.

    I'm sure the Secret Service knows who these people are and they are performing background checks on them as soon as they are noticed. Maybe I watch to much TV but I can imagine a big mobile command center with facial recognition software matching these people to known threats.

    A guy with a clean background showing up with an assault rifle will probably get a different treatment than a guy who wrote a big online post about "Going to take out the President" before coming to the rally.
    Last edited by MarcusKspn; 08-19-2009 at 03:47 AM.
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    This will add to the discusion:

    The 2nd Wave: Return of the Militias

    Pefrect example of my earlier post. I'm sure the USSS is aware of guys like this and if one of them shows up with a rifle he would get a different treatment than a "normal" guy showing up with a rifle.
    Last edited by MarcusKspn; 08-19-2009 at 04:43 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarcusKspn View Post
    I can only imagine. For the most part the rest of the world looks at our pro-gun constitution and US stand on guns with a general "What the F*** is wrong these people, don't they know those things kill people!!!!!" mindset.

    I have had many a long conversations with my German friends about guns and they are simply shocked by the fact that in Oklahoma I can into a Wal-Mart and 10 minutes later walk out with a riffle and a box of bullets. They think that a child raised around a gun will become a psychopathic killer.

    Do I think these people are making fools out of themselves by walking around Obama decked out in guns? Yes I do. But they are not breaking the law, and thats all that matters.

    Are they simply making the point that "No democratic president will take away my right to bear arms"? Are they having more sinister motives? Nobody knows but the people that are walking around with the weapons. Are they helping their cause, or are they just causing bad PR? Who knows.

    I'm sure the Secret Service knows who these people are and they are performing background checks on them as soon as they are noticed. Maybe I watch to much TV but I can imagine a big mobile command center with facial recognition software matching these people to known threats.

    A guy with a clean background showing up with an assault rifle will probably get a different treatment than a guy who wrote a big online post about "Going to take out the President" before coming to the rally.
    We have a group of several ex pats and some Ukrainians here who mett for breakfast and BS several times a week. yesterday there was myself, another Canuck, 2 Dutch, 1 Norwegian, 2 Americans, a Brit and 2 Ukrainians. There had been a lot of play on TV here about the guy carrying the rifle. Everybody was pretty well in agreement that the guy was really hurting the image of the healthcare protestors. The 2 Americans, 1 from Washington State, 1 from San Diego were in agreement, but both also said that health care reform was needed and with the govt makeup now, is probably inevitable. Its just going to be the form it takes thats in question.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MarcusKspn View Post
    This will add to the discusion:

    The 2nd Wave: Return of the Militias

    Pefrect example of my earlier post. I'm sure the USSS is aware of guys like this and if one of them shows up with a rifle he would get a different treatment than a "normal" guy showing up with a rifle.
    I read that... and all I can say is "wow".

    I'm going to buy stock in Alcoa. The demand for aluminum foil is great!
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    But, as usual with that type of report, it only paints half the story. For every right wing hate group, for every alleged terrorist attack perpetrated by right wing extremists, I am fairly certain that one could compile a similarly long and scary list of left wing extremist attrocities.

    Suffice to say that the USSS is a larger agency than the 12 people you see with POTUS on TV. They put maximum effort into protecting him and take great pride in the fact that there has not been a succesful attempt in almost 30 years.

    But one thing that should be obvious, but gets lost behind some of these articles, is that people who are a threat to POTUS, no matter which side of the political fence are EXTREMISTS and are not representative of 99.999999999999999% of Americans.

    For a little more of an unbiased look at some of these groups, look here: http://www.adl.org/learn/default.htm

    I have worked with the ADL when I was on the public side. They have full-time employees who gather intel on these hate groups. They also compile and publish reports on their activities that are amazingly accurate. They are VERY LE friendly and are more than happy to speak at LE functions. MAny times, they will ensure that the audience is LE only before they speak about certain topics.
    Last edited by GeorgeWendtCFI; 08-19-2009 at 08:49 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI View Post
    For a little more of an unbiased look at some of these groups, look here: http://www.adl.org/learn/default.htm

    Good read.

    I did not mean to make it another "right crazies vs left nutjobs" post. The report was in the news today and reminded me of this topic to some extend.

    The point I was trying to make was that the USSS keeps an eye out for nutjobs in particular. Anyone with an affiliation or a stated threat to the POTUS would probably recieve a different reception at these events when he shows up armed and loaded.

    EDITED TO ADD:

    This section will take me quite a while to read. LOTS of informative stuff there though. Great Link!
    Last edited by MarcusKspn; 08-19-2009 at 09:23 AM.
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    This is the Army Guy writing this time and peaceful or lawful or not, past experience has shown that bringing guns or any weapons/sidearms to a political rally of any kind is just bad news.

    Now in this case, apparently things went well, and other than a clear photograph, nothing bad happened. Thats a good thing. However, unfortunately history speaks for itself on that regard.

    Beyond that, while I don't agree this was an action that falls into the "Good Idea" category, it was not against the law.


    For the Conspiracy Guys.... maybe this guy was a plant? Ya know, one of those decoy types. Everyone sees the weapon and runs for cover, the SS Guys get all excited, meanwhile someone with more sinister plans does "other stuff".......
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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    Great. So now the USSS is committed to having one person give a gun toting idiot special attention.

    No one has yet to show what is the purpose in bringing a firearm to a political rally.
    Perhaps it is to show the tyrants that we the people will not stand for their nonsense anymore. They are pushing us to far, taking away too many freedoms, and creating a socialist government.

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    did not mean to make it another "right crazies vs left nutjobs" post.
    I know that.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarcusKspn View Post
    This will add to the discusion:

    The 2nd Wave: Return of the Militias

    Pefrect example of my earlier post. I'm sure the USSS is aware of guys like this and if one of them shows up with a rifle he would get a different treatment than a "normal" guy showing up with a rifle.
    You need to go find a BS meter.

    There is NO greater bunch of kooks in the US than the idiots at the "Southern Poverty Law Center" (significantly funded with tax $). If you pay attention, you'll note they show up in the news when a prominent dem starts to selfdestruct. They are the same bunch that promulgated the militia myth BS during the Bill/Monica era. Not their only wacko "issue" but a recurring line as has been their biggest success as has establishing "rightwing" militia" as a leftist totem/article of faith.

    SC is certainly high on their email list of talking points.

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    Quote Originally Posted by neiowa View Post
    You need to go find a BS meter.

    There is NO greater bunch of kooks in the US than the idiots at the "Southern Poverty Law Center" (significantly funded with tax $). If you pay attention, you'll note they show up in the news when a prominent dem starts to selfdestruct. They are the same bunch that promulgated the militia myth BS during the Bill/Monica era. Not their only wacko "issue" but a recurring line as has been their biggest success as has establishing "rightwing" militia" as a leftist totem/article of faith.

    SC is certainly high on their email list of talking points.
    Good Point. Kind of ironic that our own government called returning veterans a threat as well isn't it? Makes you think there might be a connection here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MarcusKspn View Post
    I can only imagine. For the most part the rest of the world looks at our pro-gun constitution and US stand on guns with a general "What the F*** is wrong these people, don't they know those things kill people!!!!!" mindset.
    Most of the world?

    Most of the world it's legal to own/carry/shoot your AK whenever you want.

    Okay, bit of a stretch, but widely true in a large chunk of the world.

    Regardless, I really don't care what the Germans or French think.
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI View Post
    Oh. So unless there are open carrying, they are not a threat?

    Not concerned about their rights being infringed upon? Two words: Patriot Act. Had all the libs crazy.
    There were conservative groups concerned as well over the Patriot Act and its infringements upon 4th & 5th Ammendment rights.

    Do you have proof there were libs carrying concealed weapons at Bush events?
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChiefKN View Post
    Who are you to ask? The man was exercising his 2nd amendment rights. You know, the bill of rights?
    I'm an American just like him. What is the purpose of carrying a weapon to a political event? As I asked, Kostric claims all his freedoms are under assault. Seems to me he was able to exercise his 1st and 2nd Ammendment rights.

    So which ones are under attack?
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

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    Quote Originally Posted by neiowa View Post
    You need to go find a BS meter.

    There is NO greater bunch of kooks in the US than the idiots at the "Southern Poverty Law Center" (significantly funded with tax $). If you pay attention, you'll note they show up in the news when a prominent dem starts to selfdestruct. They are the same bunch that promulgated the militia myth BS during the Bill/Monica era. Not their only wacko "issue" but a recurring line as has been their biggest success as has establishing "rightwing" militia" as a leftist totem/article of faith.

    SC is certainly high on their email list of talking points.
    There was no increase in militia activity during the Clinton years.

    Two words: Timothy McVeigh?

    I don't see liberal groups bombing federal buildings as a statement of rebellion.

    They just win at the ballot box.
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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    There were conservative groups concerned as well over the Patriot Act and its infringements upon 4th & 5th Ammendment rights.

    Do you have proof there were libs carrying concealed weapons at Bush events?
    Never said I did.

    Carrying weapons isn't the point. You made an assertion that there is a conservative threat to the President. I stated that this is no more or less of a threat than other Pres. have faced, particularly Pres. Bush from left wing radicals.
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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    I'm an American just like him. What is the purpose of carrying a weapon to a political event? As I asked, Kostric claims all his freedoms are under assault. Seems to me he was able to exercise his 1st and 2nd Ammendment rights.

    So which ones are under attack?
    All of them. Mr. Kostric just got in under the wire. They haven't been taken away yet.
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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    There was no increase in militia activity during the Clinton years.

    Two words: Timothy McVeigh?

    I don't see liberal groups bombing federal buildings as a statement of rebellion.

    They just win at the ballot box.
    That winning streak will be coming to an abrupt end at mid-term.

    Timothy McVeigh was a demented individual. He hardly represents a "group", unless you count the other man he was involved with as a "group".
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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    I'm an American just like him. What is the purpose of carrying a weapon to a political event? As I asked, Kostric claims all his freedoms are under assault. Seems to me he was able to exercise his 1st and 2nd Ammendment rights.

    So which ones are under attack?
    Are you kidding me?

    The left is a constant threat to both the first and second amendments.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChiefKN View Post
    Are you kidding me?

    The left is a constant threat to both the first and second amendments.
    In which ways? Which pieces of legislation are being proposed to infringe upon either right?

    When a right wing nutcase shoots a man in the face while he's sitting in church or another kills three police officers because he thought Obama might be coming after his guns, explain to us (who do own guns as well) how that helps promote the cause.

    Interesting how these folks feel the need to start exercising their rights in only the last couple of months. Kostric claims his right have been under assault for many years, yet he only now starts wearing a sidearm to political events.

    What could have happened to cause this course of action with the last eight months?
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChiefKN View Post
    Are you kidding me?

    The left is a constant threat to both the first and second amendments.
    I am pretty much in the middle on the second amendment.

    I love my guns and rifles, but I have nothing against gun control. It does say "A well regulated millitia...".

    The local gun shows are amazing in how little they are regulated.
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    I wanted to elaborate on my earlier post regarding gun control:

    I don't see much purpose in waiting periods, I figure people think that they prevent the "Someone flipped me off so I will buy a gun and shoot him" scenario. But I'm not buying it.

    In Oklahoma we have computer/phone checks. If you buy a gun your info gets called in to make sure you are not a felon or anything like that. If they get the all clear (99% of the time) the gun gets handed over. If there is a problem they will fax some additional paperwork over to make sure you are the person thats not allowed to have the gun, or if you have simmilar names with someone who does not. There might be a day or so waiting time in that scenario.

    No open carry in Oklahoma, concealed carry with license (I'm working on getting mine).

    At gun shows everything goes, anyone can buy a gun from anyone, no checks at all. It's a felon's dream.

    No registration required in Oklahoma as far as I know. I have a record of all my gun's serial numbers in case they get stolen, but nobody has the records except for me.
    Last edited by MarcusKspn; 08-20-2009 at 03:35 AM.
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