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    Default Gun Carrying Protester

    So what does everyone think about this guy protesting outside the town hall meeting with President Obama?



    This could be a fun discussion , we need something else to talk about besides health care.

    My take is this:

    I don't know what his motivation was, people at the Huffington Post apperantly are speculating that it ranged from "trying to intimitate the President" to "shoot him on sight" . Was it an attempt to silently threaten Obama, or maybe a statement against the percieved thread that he will take away our right to bear arms? Maybe this guy just takes his gun everywhere because that is his right in New Hampshire, and going to a protest is just another activity in addition to buying gas with his gun visible, and playing golf with his gun visible.

    I don't know what the guy was thinking, but what he did was legal and thats that. From what I have read the only law that he was breaking was a law against having a loaded gun within 1000 feet of a school. The local cops who are very familiar with the open carry law in NH had him move over 30 feet to make sure he was standing on private property and that was the end of the matter.

    He was not trying to cause a riot, he did not keep anyone from being able to hold their signs or voice their opinion. He certainly did not shoot anyone.

    He exercised his right in an unconventional way and is causing much debate. But hey, it's his right.
    "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Benjamin Franklin

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    If what he was doing was legal, who cares? He was exercising several of his constitutional rights at the same time.

    Why don't we talk about utter arrogance?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-L3FnWNkIzU
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI View Post
    If what he was doing was legal, who cares? He was exercising several of his constitutional rights at the same time.

    Why don't we talk about utter arrogance?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-L3FnWNkIzU
    Can't pull up youtube at work, I'll have to watch it in a few hours when I'm at home.

    There has just been lots of talk on various media outlets, with lots of different opinions. Figured it might be a good change of pace here.
    "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Benjamin Franklin

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    I'm sure the Secret Service didn't let him get near the president. And if he was ever in a location to be a threat he was watched.

    Link

    Mr. Kostric didn't do himself any favors during his interview with Chris Matthews.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    I'm sure the Secret Service didn't let him get near the president. And if he was ever in a location to be a threat he was watched.

    Link

    Mr. Kostric didn't do himself any favors during his interview with Chris Matthews.
    Chris Matthews just reminds me of a bully...
    "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Benjamin Franklin

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    Quote Originally Posted by MarcusKspn View Post
    Chris Matthews just reminds me of a bully...
    More like a freaking moron. Although Idiot comes to mind. Look at the birther question, He answered the question and this knucklehead kept asking the question. BTW - He answered he doesn't believe the birthers. The left is sure hung up on that aren't they. I thought Kostric was right on. The left is taking form the workers and giving to the welfare cases and the right is giving to corporate America. Although, under Obama we have given far more to Corporate America. Looks like Obama is just giving away the house to everyone (except the working class)

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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    I'm sure the Secret Service didn't let him get near the president. And if he was ever in a location to be a threat he was watched.
    Quite true. However Mr. Obamas handlers didn't exactly let anyone who disagreed with his opinon anywhere inside the building.

    Yes, a real man of conviction and courage. So courageous that he kept anyone who disagreed with him away from the forum. And those questions asked at his forums and news conferences have all seemed so scripted and practiced it isn't even funny.

    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    Mr. Kostric didn't do himself any favors during his interview with Chris Matthews.
    Depends on your view. Chris Matthews is a blithering blowhard. Nice how you insult and demean Limbaugh and O'Reilly but have no problem with Olberman and Matthews. Hypocrite. Don't forget to look in the mirror.
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    Kostric hardly comes across as being rational. Carrying a firearm and holding a banner with an excerpt of a quote that advocates shedding the blood of others is not what one would consider an individual interested in rational dialogue.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    Kostric hardly comes across as being rational. Carrying a firearm and holding a banner with an excerpt of a quote that advocates shedding the blood of others is not what one would consider an individual interested in rational dialogue.
    Rational dialogue was not a description to be used for much of the anti-war ranting either.
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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    Kostric hardly comes across as being rational. Carrying a firearm and holding a banner with an excerpt of a quote that advocates shedding the blood of others is not what one would consider an individual interested in rational dialogue.
    You expecte people to be rational. You are irrational in many of your discussions.

    Perhaps he is not pushing for violence, only stating that you think he is. Vote the incumbents out may be something that he is pushing. It might not be, but since you are incapable of discussing a topic "rationally" it is probably a waste of time.

    Also interesting that you are incapable of defending yourself when I call you on you hypocracy regarding your villification of conservative bullies while not saying anything about your own left-leaning ones. As I said.....hypocrite.
    "Too many people spend money they haven't earned, to buy things they don't want, to impress people they don't like." Will Rogers

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    Kostric in 2012!!!!

    I am glad he excersized his (and our) rights and allowed Chris Matthews to show his true colors.


    great line about why he doesn't carry an "unloaded weapon"
    Originally Posted by madden01
    "and everyone is encouraged to use Plain, Spelled Out English. I thought this was covered in NIMS training."

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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    I'm sure the Secret Service didn't let him get near the president. And if he was ever in a location to be a threat he was watched.

    Link

    Mr. Kostric didn't do himself any favors during his interview with Chris Matthews.
    I was finally able to view the link. Maybe it's me, but I thought that Mr. Kostric did a heckuva job when being confronted by a borderline maniacal Chris Matthews. I would bet that Mr. Kostric did not agree to an interview where;

    1. He would be asked who he voted for
    2. He would be chided over whether he was a "birther".
    3. He would be accused of being a security threat to the President.
    4. He would be asked to recite the history of presidential assassinations
    5. He would be asked to recite constitutional history w/o benefit of the research that Matthews had

    Matthews is an arrogant bully. There is absolutely no objectivity in his presentation. So all of you who scream about Rush and Sean and O'Relly can stop. You have the moron duo of Oberman and Matthews.
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI View Post
    George, who the f@ck is that guy? Never heard of him. Perhaps with maroons like that are the reason why Air America and their ilk are sucking buttermilk.

    As for rational though, you know as well as I do that Democrats and liberals will swallow this up and say any attempt to squash him is a restriction of free speech - while at the same time decrying conservatives for espousing their views.

    Democrats and liberals (as with all ideologues) are all for free speech - so long as it does not disagree with their thoughts or them.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uFlEY...eature=related

    This clip is from yesterday as well. Note that it has an MSNBC banner on it in the upper right-middle part of the screen. So how come the libs - that means you scfire86 - scream, rant, cry, moan, and sound like a little girl when FoxNews has all right-leaning hosts........but have noooooooooooooooooo problem with MSNBC and CNN having a predominantly liberal slant? Oh that's right. Say it with me scfire86........Hypocracy.
    Last edited by DaSharkie; 08-13-2009 at 06:25 PM.
    "Too many people spend money they haven't earned, to buy things they don't want, to impress people they don't like." Will Rogers

    The borrower is slave to the lender. Proverbs 22:7 - Debt free since 10/5/2009.

    "No man's life, liberty, or property are safe while the legislature is in session." - New York Judge Gideon Tucker

    "As Americans we must always remember that we all have a common enemy, an enemy that is dangerous, powerful and relentless. I refer, of course, to the federal government." - Dave Barry

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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    Mr. Kostric didn't do himself any favors during his interview with Chris Matthews.
    As an educated man - dare I say you TRY to be open-minded - you oght to re-watch that video clip.

    Mr. Kostric showed Chris Matthew's lunacy and ignorance by speaking rationally, coherently, without browbeating (as Matthews does daily) speaking about a variety of subjects.

    He also showed Mr. Matthews to be ignorant of the history of taxation when it comes to the history of the income tax (look around the 5 minute mark.)

    Also notice the icon at the lower right corner of the screen showing "Rage At Home." The only twit I saw showing "rage" was Chris Matthews which shows that he is just an overbearing moron.
    "Too many people spend money they haven't earned, to buy things they don't want, to impress people they don't like." Will Rogers

    The borrower is slave to the lender. Proverbs 22:7 - Debt free since 10/5/2009.

    "No man's life, liberty, or property are safe while the legislature is in session." - New York Judge Gideon Tucker

    "As Americans we must always remember that we all have a common enemy, an enemy that is dangerous, powerful and relentless. I refer, of course, to the federal government." - Dave Barry

    www.daveramsey.com www.clarkhoward.com www.heritage.org

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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    Kostric hardly comes across as being rational. Carrying a firearm and holding a banner with an excerpt of a quote that advocates shedding the blood of others is not what one would consider an individual interested in rational dialogue.
    I disagree. He highlighted a CENTRAL theme in this debate, and a theme that is starting to bubble up hard.

    Rural americans do not want to pay for these programs that the urban americans will primarily use. I heard this directly from a Democratic Congressman here in NJ yesterday. It's a big deal for the bluedogs from the rural districts. It might well be the issue that causes the democrats to fail to reach real reform.

    The urban folks see a handgun and freak out. It's a different culture.

    The quote doesn't advocate shedding blood. It advocates standing up for your liberty.
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChiefKN View Post
    I disagree. He highlighted a CENTRAL theme in this debate, and a theme that is starting to bubble up hard.
    Okay. Obama has definitely lost ground in the polls. The flip side to that is the GOP hasn't gained any ground.

    Quote Originally Posted by ChiefKN View Post
    Rural americans do not want to pay for these programs that the urban americans will primarily use. I heard this directly from a Democratic Congressman here in NJ yesterday. It's a big deal for the bluedogs from the rural districts. It might well be the issue that causes the democrats to fail to reach real reform.
    Considering the rural areas benefit from the programs funded by urban areas (ie crop subsidies) this is a quite a disconnect. Especially considering it was government that forced utility companies to install electricity out in the urban areas when the market forces determined it was unprofitable. Were it not for the largesse of federal programs, the midwest would be just so much dust blowing back and forth the last 60 years.

    Quote Originally Posted by ChiefKN View Post
    The urban folks see a handgun and freak out. It's a different culture.
    Might be because urban folks know the second half of the quote and believe idiots like Kostric might view them as tyrants.

    Quote Originally Posted by ChiefKN View Post
    The quote doesn't advocate shedding blood. It advocates standing up for your liberty.
    See above post. The definition of tyranny by these folks is a bit too narrow for me.
    Last edited by scfire86; 08-13-2009 at 09:11 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI View Post
    If what he was doing was legal, who cares? He was exercising several of his constitutional rights at the same time.

    Why don't we talk about utter arrogance?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-L3FnWNkIzU
    I saw the spin on the incident today. The way she is portraying the situation is that a participant in the town hall asked a question and she did not know the answer. Instead of making something up, or simply saying "I don't know" she decided to make a call to get the answer for the person who asked the question.

    Like I said, thats what she is saying today. If its true then I would have to say that I actually like someone taking the initiative to get a real accurate answer, instead of just providing lip service. If it's false, then it's saddly more of the same from the politicians.
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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    Might be because urban folks know the second half of the quote and believe idiots like Kostric might view them as tyrants.
    Us dumb rural folks know the entire quote... not just the "second half" of the quote. This is a portion of a letter written in 1787.

    "God forbid we should ever be twenty years without such a rebellion.
    The people cannot be all, and always, well informed. The part which is
    wrong will be discontented, in proportion to the importance of the facts
    they misconceive. If they remain quiet under such misconceptions,
    it is lethargy, the forerunner of death to the public liberty. ...
    And what country can preserve its liberties, if it's rulers are not
    warned from time to time, that this people preserve the spirit of
    resistance? Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as
    to the facts, pardon and pacify them. What signify a few lives lost
    in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from
    time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants.
    It is its natural manure."
    Last edited by ChiefKN; 08-13-2009 at 09:42 PM.
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

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    An interesting statistic I would like to see (which is probably impossible to obtain) is this:

    This incident is getting a lot of attention because he followed the "open-carry laws" and his gun was visible. But how many people have used their concealed carry license and carried a gun that was not visible to a political event?

    The problem here is not that he legally took a legally owned gun to the event. the problem here is how people are reacting to a person who took advantage of his rights.

    Whatever point he was trying to make is not even relevant now. All the media has achieved now is "prove" to the conservatives that their right to bear arms is indeed being threatened.
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    The quote, and my dumb rural understanding of it...

    If you read it and understand it is in reference to the Shay's Rebellion... it begins to make more sense.

    Jefferson is actually saying that the rebellion by americans against the new american government was misguided. That the rebels were not "well informed".

    The people cannot be all, and always, well informed. The part which is wrong will be discontented, in proportion to the importance of the facts they misconceive.

    Yet, it was good they demonstrated their discontent, because to be quiet and not speak up is contrary to liberty!

    If they remain quiet under such misconceptions,it is lethargy, the forerunner of death to the public liberty. ...
    That they should remind their leaders that the people rule this country, not the elite.

    And what country can preserve its liberties, if it's rulers are not warned from time to time, that this people preserve the spirit of resistance?
    Let them protest. The fact that they died (the rebellion was put down easily). Let them protest, even if it means that those who protest and those that defend the government die. Because the death of those protestors is what liberty will require at times.

    Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as to the facts, pardon and pacify them. What signify a few lives lost in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is its natural manure."
    What this Kostric was saying by using that quote is now clear. That the people must be loud and protest, even if they are wrong. To not protest would be wrong. He was defending the loud and sometimes strident protesting of these proposals.

    Mathews and most of the press just don't know or ignore the context of Jefferson's remarks.
    Last edited by ChiefKN; 08-13-2009 at 10:40 PM.
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChiefKN View Post
    What this Kostric was saying by using that quote is now clear. That the people must be loud and protest, even if they are wrong. To not protest would be wrong. He was defending the loud and sometimes strident protesting of these proposals.

    Mathews and most of the press just don't know or ignore the context of Jefferson's remarks.
    Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel. Kostric must have missed a very important event late last year. It was called an election.

    No doubt that people should be allowed to protest. It is their right. Given the state of incivility in town hall meetings (by both sides) only shows that both groups are reacting emotionally to an issue that warrants rational thought. Something that is not possible when one group comes to the event armed with hyperbole gleaned from Glenn Beck soundbites.

    It's clearly obvious to those of us who have been paying attention those protesting are more about their unhappiness with the GOP losing the White House than any real concern over liberalism or perceived encroaching tyranny.
    Last edited by scfire86; 08-14-2009 at 12:00 AM.
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    He was totally within his rights to demonstrate and to carry a weapon. He was within the New Hampshire laws. Probably not the smartest thing to do but he was within his rights.

    As far as Chris Matthews, I think he lost his cool by saying "..you brought a God damn gun.." He is a bully, that's what the show is all about and that is why he is the host, because he is good at what he does.
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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    Considering the rural areas benefit from the programs funded by urban areas (ie crop subsidies) this is a quite a disconnect. Especially considering it was government that forced utility companies to install electricity out in the urban areas when the market forces determined it was unprofitable. Were it not for the largesse of federal programs, the midwest would be just so much dust blowing back and forth the last 60 years.
    Crop subsidies that keep the cost of your food down. The government sets the price these farmers can charge for milk. Every one of them would gladly give up the subsides if the price controls went with it. Worst part about the subsidies is that the majority of them go to large corporations, not the little guy. Local farmer here with a little over 100 head, his subsidy check doesn't even pay for the fertilizer.

    Billions of dollars roll form the rural areas to the cities to subsidize such things as Police, Fire Departments, Public transportation, Football stadiums, Baseball stadiums, and a host of other initiatives. The state of NY would not be such a mess if not for the city. We have bailed them out more than once. Be nice to go down around Kingston, draw a line and make the 51st state.
    Last edited by ScareCrow57; 08-14-2009 at 03:08 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    Kostric hardly comes across as being rational. Carrying a firearm and holding a banner with an excerpt of a quote that advocates shedding the blood of others is not what one would consider an individual interested in rational dialogue.
    scfire, if you want to talk irrational, look at that disgraceful behavior of the so called journalist. He was not trying to interview this person, he was trying to belittle him and showing his abysmal one sidedness. That man is a disgrace to the journalistic field. Walter Cronkite would throw up watching him. Plus his comb over makes him look even worse.

    I will agree that taking a loaded gun to a rally or protest may not be the wisest move, but evidently, its legal, so why the big uproar?

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