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    Default Chicago Crash 5 FF injuries, 1 critical to serious

    http://cms.firehouse.com/content/art...Id=46&id=64964


    Another apparatus crash, per the article the driver of the civilian vehicle was cited for failure to yield. Don't know about the specifics, but 5 brothers hurt and one is "serious to critical". Hopefully the next info we get on the brothers is good info. Initially it sounds like the apparatus driver did nothing wrong.

    REMEMBER!! When we're running lights and sirens the public doesn't see us as going off to save the day, we are an annoyance and only slow down John Q. Public. Remember to stay alert! NO ONE WANTS TO STOP FOR US, NO ONE PAYS ATTENTION, THE CELL PHONE AND RADIO ARE MORE INTERESTING THAN THE ROAD TO PEOPLE! EVERYONE IS IN A HURRY AND THEY ONLY THINK WE ARE SLOWING THEM DOWN. Everyone is a thread.

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    How many of us speed through the green?

    How many of us slow down coming into a green?

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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    How many of us speed through the green?

    How many of us slow down coming into a green?
    So F'em right??

    You have got to be the most self serving P.O.S I've ever seen.. Don't try to push your agenda off the injury's of a couple of brave firemen.. Where are you at in Bossier, It's not to far a drive from here.. I would punch you in the F'n face if you said this in person..... SHUT YOUR KOCKHOLSTER..............

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    Quote Originally Posted by nameless View Post
    http://cms.firehouse.com/content/art...Id=46&id=64964


    Another apparatus crash, per the article the driver of the civilian vehicle was cited for failure to yield. Don't know about the specifics, but 5 brothers hurt and one is "serious to critical". Hopefully the next info we get on the brothers is good info. Initially it sounds like the apparatus driver did nothing wrong.

    REMEMBER!! When we're running lights and sirens the public doesn't see us as going off to save the day, we are an annoyance and only slow down John Q. Public. Remember to stay alert! NO ONE WANTS TO STOP FOR US, NO ONE PAYS ATTENTION, THE CELL PHONE AND RADIO ARE MORE INTERESTING THAN THE ROAD TO PEOPLE! EVERYONE IS IN A HURRY AND THEY ONLY THINK WE ARE SLOWING THEM DOWN. Everyone is a thread.
    Agreed. We have been seeing this about every other day lately. We need to stop destroying the equipment to save 5 seconds.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    Agreed. We have been seeing this about every other day lately. We need to stop destroying the equipment to save 5 seconds.
    Destroying the equipment? Yea thats a good point. Who gives an an F about all the human beings involved. That fire truck was expensive. You and LA should both just off yourselves.
    Even the burger-flippers at McDonald's probably have some McWackers.

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    Once again, the monday morning quarterbacking has begun before all the facts are in and the incident investigated by the CFD.
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

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    We should always be decelerating as we enter a green being prepared for someone running the light. That's a basic premise of defensive driving.

    We have had 2 recent situations where apparatus have been struck on the green. We need to be prepared to scan the intersection for cars likely not to stop and be prepared to yield the right of way to them if necessary.

    It's not uncommon for me to enter most intersections on a green 10-20 mph below the speed limit. There is one intersection I generally crawl through about 30 under, even on the green, due to a high number of accidents there related to red light running.

    Not only do we risk lessening the response to the emergency, but we lessen responder safety, which after all, the absolute primary consideration in an response, or at least should be.

    Will it cost us some time in the response? Sure. But the options of a crash does nothing for the citizens and certainly does nothing positive for us.

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    You have got to be the most self serving P.O.S I've ever seen.. Don't try to push your agenda off the injury's of a couple of brave firemen.. Where are you at in Bossier, It's not to far a drive from here.. I would punch you in the F'n face if you said this in person..... SHUT YOUR KOCKHOLSTER..............

    Actually, I do a fair amount of training in east Texas. Let me know where you are and I'll be happy to stop by and save you gas money.

    By the way, the agenda of slowing down in fire apparatus, especially at intersections, ain't mine. A lot of other people and organizations are pushing it as well. Wish I could take credit for it though ... it's a great idea.

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    Hey Dumbazz,Show me where there is ANY mention of a green/red light even being involved. Five brothers are injured and all you can flap about are your "superior" driving methods.Since I'm reasonably certain you were NOWHERE near Chi-town when this happened,how about some well wishing for the injured and a little patience for the report.You're SUCH a TOOL! T.C.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    We should always be decelerating as we enter a green being prepared for someone running the light. That's a basic premise of defensive driving.

    We have had 2 recent situations where apparatus have been struck on the green. We need to be prepared to scan the intersection for cars likely not to stop and be prepared to yield the right of way to them if necessary.
    Yeah,that sh** will happen when you stop on green!
    It's not uncommon for me to enter most intersections on a green 10-20 mph below the speed limit. There is one intersection I generally crawl through about 30 under, even on the green, due to a high number of accidents there related to red light running.
    See above
    Not only do we risk lessening the response to the emergency, but we lessen responder safety, which after all, the absolute primary consideration in an response, or at least should be.
    Why don't you just stay in the firehouse,it will save you from getting hit.
    Will it cost us some time in the response? Sure. But the options of a crash does nothing for the citizens and certainly does nothing positive for us.
    Just stay home,Think of all the money you'll save.And the taxpayers you'll impress. T.c.

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    Rescue 101 ..

    Where did I blame the driver?

    I have no idea what the factors were involving this accident, but I have seen many fire apparatus drivers speed up when approaching and entering an intersection which is just the opposite of what we are taught in emergency vehicle operations defensive driving courses.

    The basic mantra of those courses is be prepared for the unexpected, which includes drivers running red lights when you have the green. Every defensive driver course I have ever taken talks about slowing down slightly and scanning an intersection, even when you have the green, so you can identify vehicles that appear they may not be planning on stopping for thier red light.

    Are you actually going to dispute the need for slowing down slightly while entering a green light as a standard safe driving practice?

    Are you going to dispute this as a standard safe driving practice for approaching busier intersections where the cross streets have a stop sign or a blind view of the main road as well?
    Last edited by LaFireEducator; 08-16-2009 at 05:17 PM.

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    We have had 2 recent situations where apparatus have been struck on the green


    Was referring to the Pheonix and CFD incident with the collective "we".

    "We" as in our fire district have not had a apparatus-civilian accident running hot in many years. We had an intersection accident involving our department utility pickup about 6 months ago, which was our driver's fault, in a non-response situation. The driver was disciplined and lost rank.
    Last edited by LaFireEducator; 08-16-2009 at 06:14 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    [B]
    Our fire district have not had a apparatus-civilian accident running hot in many years. We had an intersection accident involving our department utility pickup about 6 months ago, which was our driver's fault, in a non-response situation. The driver was disciplined and lost rank.
    To bad it wasn't you, unbelted, driving that utility the truck... and too bad the other vehicle wasn't a freight train.
    Last edited by nmfire; 08-16-2009 at 06:57 PM.
    Even the burger-flippers at McDonald's probably have some McWackers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nmfire View Post
    Do bad it wasn't you, unbelted, driving that utility the truck... and too bad the other vehicle wasn't a freight train.
    I'm no fan of the "Bayou Bullsh-tter", but that's a bit much.

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    Somehow I get this image, of a lonely Bossier Bobby, sitting at home, all alone....No wife, no kids. Just him. No life other than to get on here, and criticize each and every mistake, accident, tactic, procedure, fire, accident, investigation, etc......He sits in front of the computer screen, only the brilliance of the monitor penetrating the darkness the room, which mimics the dark loneliness of his life. He hovers over his computer, searching the media websites with depraved lust, the drool running from the corners of his mouth, waiting, searching, hovering like a vulture, waiting for a new media story comes out which has even the smallest possibility of hinting that the responding agency could be at fault (even though the investigation has not been completed) he cries out "A-HA!" to no one in particular. He may have been married once, but his wife left him due to his inability to be passionate towards anything except his criticisms of what he perceives to be others wrongdoings. Sure, in the beginning, she kind of liked the kinky sex involving him making her wear "SAFETY" sector visibility vests, but it got old when he made her yell "one room well involved, everyone out!"
    "Loyalty Above all Else. Except Honor."

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    Wishing a speedy recovery to all involved.



    For the rest of you why do you even start. You know he is always going to disagree, or say something to get everyone all fired up. He has demonstrated this over and over. He loves to stir the pot.
    This space for rent

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    Best regards and recovery for all involved in this accident.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    How many of us speed through the green?

    How many of us slow down coming into a green?
    Hmmn,it would appear you're leading up to a driver accusation here. Now lessee,I don't know much about defensive or any other kind of driving as I've only been driving Fire apparatus for 37 years and COMMERCIALLY driving for 34.Two million accident free miles.No,I don't stop for green lights.But I DO know where the front and back of my rig is most of the time.Do I dispute your methodology? YES,I do for it is all over the chart and quite contrary to any of the professional driver instructors I've had contact with.SITUATIONAL awareness is key to BOTH safe driving AND SAFE Firefighting.Quite simple really. T.C.
    Last edited by Rescue101; 08-16-2009 at 08:20 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nmfire View Post
    Destroying the equipment? Yea thats a good point. Who gives an an F about all the human beings involved. That fire truck was expensive. You and LA should both just off yourselves.
    If you don't destroy the trucks then no one gets hurt Try thinking past the end of your nose.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainGonzo View Post
    Once again, the monday morning quarterbacking has begun before all the facts are in and the incident investigated by the CFD.
    More importantly, 95% of all accidents are caused by human error. All the originator is saying is pay attention, don't expect everyone sees you, and be ready to stop if you have to. There has been about 1 every 3 or 4 days lately. Get enough and someone dies. I'd rather be called names than see another FF die

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rescue101 View Post
    Hey Dumbazz,Show me where there is ANY mention of a green/red light even being involved. Five brothers are injured and all you can flap about are your "superior" driving methods.Since I'm reasonably certain you were NOWHERE near Chi-town when this happened,how about some well wishing for the injured and a little patience for the report.You're SUCH a TOOL! T.C.
    Up until this post no one was blaming anyone. A few of us think that accidents can be avoided.

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    Strawbrains,better hone your reading skills and look at post two.Ever occur to you two Rocket scientists that it JUST MIGHT BE that John Q Public is out to KILL US? As a guy who spends a lot of time in the highway,you can be doing EVERYTHING right and still get wrecked. And it USUALLY isn't US being the causal factor. Idiots abound.Oh wait,we KNOW that! T.C.
    Last edited by Rescue101; 08-16-2009 at 08:33 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nmfire View Post
    To bad it wasn't you, unbelted, driving that utility the truck... and too bad the other vehicle wasn't a freight train.
    Well now, you show your true colors. You only are concerned about other people when it is convenient for you. So sad to live such a shallow existence.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rescue101 View Post
    Ever occur to you two Rocket scientists that it JUST MIGHT BE that John Q Public is out to KILL US? As a guy who spends a lot of time in the highway,you can be doing EVERYTHING right and still get wrecked. And it USUALLY isn't US being the causal factor. Idiots abound.Oh wait,we KNOW that! T.C.
    Don't know which two of the several you are talking about. John Q isn't out to kill us, they just don't pay attention. As professionals we need to assure our driving skills and attentiveness are above and beyond that of John Q. All nameless is getting it is don't assume the public sees you, is that such a hard concept to grasp?

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    YOU be one of dem Scientists above described. You can take it to the BANK that John Q is out to Kill us,I see it every day.I UNDERSTAND what Nameless is saying,DO YOU? I make a living dealing with inattentive drivers,and I can assure you they will KILL YOU as quick as look at you if you don't stay WIDE AWAKE and practice Situational awareness. FACT! Cerebral rectosis is becoming a pandemic in this country. T.C.

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