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  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by nmfire View Post
    Your conclusions make no sense so I'm not going to bother.
    In other words, you got nuthin'.
    PROUD, HONORED AND HUMBLED RECIPIENT OF THE PURPLE HYDRANT AWARD - 10/2007.


  2. #82
    the 4-1-4 Jasper 45's Avatar
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    Senator Kennedy is now answering for his actions with Mary Jo Kopechne, one way or another. That is now between him and his maker, one way or another. Forgiveness, and Kennedy's genuineness of his seeking it is between him and his maker, not us.

    He had a long tenure in the US Senate, for whatever reason, and whether we like it or not. The man did have an impact on our government and our lives, whether we like it or not.
    His actions of that night in 1969, and the young woman involved deserve to be remembered, just like his legislative efforts.

    It is entirely possible that his seeking of health reform, and his other efforts to provide for those less fortunate was to make amends, I don't know.

    One way or another, the Senator has now been truly judged for what was in his heart, not his actions.

  3. #83
    Forum Member scfire86's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nmfire View Post
    Who's the murderer? Well, that noun is generally associated with someone who is guilty of murder. Hence the name, muderer. When Ted Kennedy left her to die in the car, he committed an act that constitutes a degree of murder. At this point, 2 + 2 = 4.
    He dove into the water looking for the car and couldn't find it. The crash occurred between midnight and 1am on an unlit road. Was he supposed to sit on the shore and hope somebody drove by that late?

    He didn't have transportation or a cell phone so he walked back to the party, claiming he saw no lights on in the homes he passed. What did he do wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by nmfire View Post
    And no, the guy who died isn't any less dead. One becomes guilty of, in this case, negligent homicide, due to their actions leading up to the death, not simply because someone in their vicinity died.
    Which is exactly what happened in the case of Laura Welch. Her actions leading up to the incident caused the death of someone in the vicinity.

    Quote Originally Posted by nmfire View Post
    You're a real piece of work. It actually makes me feel sick knowing people like you are associated with the fire service.
    If your skin is that thin (just like your reasoning) I would strongly suggest you find another line of work.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

  4. #84
    Forum Member scfire86's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI View Post
    In other words, you got nuthin'.
    Dammit. You beat me to it.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

  5. #85
    Back In Black ChiefKN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    He dove into the water looking for the car and couldn't find it. The crash occurred between midnight and 1am on an unlit road. Was he supposed to sit on the shore and hope somebody drove by that late?

    He didn't have transportation or a cell phone so he walked back to the party, claiming he saw no lights on in the homes he passed. What did he do wrong?
    You forgot the best part of the story and the crux of the issue...

    He didn't report it when he was back to the cottage. During that walk he passed several other houses on his way and the cottage was close to the volunteer fire station that did have an alarm. He did call two lawyer friends of his, who came and allegedly tried to recover Kopechne and failed.

    The three of them then strategized how to handle this. Kennedy told them he'd take care of the police.

    In the morning, he confessed to his friends that he "couldn't gain . . . the moral strength to call Mrs. Kopechne at 2 in the morning and tell her that her daughter was dead." He said he'd hoped the rising sun would erase the night's events.

    By the time he reported it to the police, her body had already been recovered by two fishermen. This was 10 hours after the accident.
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

    "The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list."

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  6. #86
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    What did he do wrong?
    C'mon. I'm really trying here. Work with me. OK?
    PROUD, HONORED AND HUMBLED RECIPIENT OF THE PURPLE HYDRANT AWARD - 10/2007.

  7. #87
    Forum Member scfire86's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChiefKN View Post
    You forgot the best part of the story and the crux of the issue...

    He didn't report it when he was back to the cottage. During that walk he passed several other houses on his way and the cottage was close to the volunteer fire station that did have an alarm. He did call two lawyer friends of his, who came and allegedly tried to recover Kopechne and failed.
    All explainable given that he had suffered a concussion.

    Quote Originally Posted by ChiefKN View Post
    The three of them then strategized how to handle this. Kennedy told them he'd take care of the police.
    Which means nothing except to those prone to conspiracy theory.

    Quote Originally Posted by ChiefKN View Post
    In the morning, he confessed to his friends that he "couldn't gain . . . the moral strength to call Mrs. Kopechne at 2 in the morning and tell her that her daughter was dead." He said he'd hoped the rising sun would erase the night's events.
    Not an unexpected response from a distraught person.

    Quote Originally Posted by ChiefKN View Post
    By the time he reported it to the police, her body had already been recovered by two fishermen. This was 10 hours after the accident.
    Your point?
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

  8. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    All explainable given that he had suffered a concussion.
    How do you know he suffered a concussion, at this point that is pretty much just a weak attempt at a cover up.

    "He could not possibly be that bad a person, maybe he just hit his head hard enough to make him to this..."
    "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Benjamin Franklin

  9. #89
    Forum Member DaSharkie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    Except this thread is about Kennedy. Not Charles Rangel.
    It also is about your hypocricy and the hypocricy of the media and the hypocricy of the Democratic party.
    "Too many people spend money they haven't earned, to buy things they don't want, to impress people they don't like." Will Rogers

    The borrower is slave to the lender. Proverbs 22:7 - Debt free since 10/5/2009.

    "No man's life, liberty, or property are safe while the legislature is in session." - New York Judge Gideon Tucker

    "As Americans we must always remember that we all have a common enemy, an enemy that is dangerous, powerful and relentless. I refer, of course, to the federal government." - Dave Barry

    www.daveramsey.com www.clarkhoward.com www.heritage.org

  10. #90
    Forum Member DaSharkie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    There's more to winning elections than having a lot of money. Otherwise folks like Perot, Romney, Forbes, or even John McCain would have been president. All of them had more money than their rivals. George detailed the amount of legislation Kennedy passed. Pretty much kills you "all he did was sit in a chair" argument.
    Does not mean they passed. It is also a broad statement. You know what those are don't you? You make them all the time, but apparently it is only OK for you to do it.

    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    So was her ex-boyfriend any less dead?
    Nope. But she did not leave the scene of the collision.

    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    Fatigue and wanting to sleep are very common side effects of a concussion. I'm surprised you don't know that.
    Usually not an immediate response to the incident, it is otherwise known as a post-concussive syndrome. Unless, of course, we are talking about an epidural hematoma in which case there is a rapid progression that occurs.

    I'm surpised you don't know that.

    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    Her family (the Welch's) was prominent in that area of Texas. No difference.
    Oh, first you said she was a Bush, and now you change your statement. You inisinuated that she was a Bush when this occurred.

    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    So now you've dissolved into conspiracy. Do black helicopters keep you awake at night? Be very careful, no one whose seen them has lived to talk about it.
    No I did not dissolve into a conspiracy. You should read up on the issue.

    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    If you work in the medical field long enough, you will.
    Thanks for the insight. What would I do without you?

    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    Not an excuse. But a possible explanation for his actions. Could also be why he was never charged with manslaughter.
    He was never charged because he was never indicted.

    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    Poor thing. Are you complaining that someone else gets treated better than you? I remember a thread where I stated not all people have the same advantages. You fought me tooth and nail claiming otherwise. You just admitted I was right and you were wrong. Thank you.
    What the hell are you talking about. I don't care if someone is treated better than someone else, I'll just call you on it - which is why you are a hypocrite and I point it out when you do it. I did not admit anything - an educated person would know that. But you take what you want from people's posts, not what you know is intended.

    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    None. Reread my post. George claimed the title. So far he's lived up to it.l
    So George claimed the title - you applied it to everyone which is inappropriate in this case (as usual.) Don't apply it unless we claimed it.

    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    I don't recall him ever asking to be put there.
    Yet you want him to be there. That is why you are saddened to read the comments. You want me to send you a crying towel?
    "Too many people spend money they haven't earned, to buy things they don't want, to impress people they don't like." Will Rogers

    The borrower is slave to the lender. Proverbs 22:7 - Debt free since 10/5/2009.

    "No man's life, liberty, or property are safe while the legislature is in session." - New York Judge Gideon Tucker

    "As Americans we must always remember that we all have a common enemy, an enemy that is dangerous, powerful and relentless. I refer, of course, to the federal government." - Dave Barry

    www.daveramsey.com www.clarkhoward.com www.heritage.org

  11. #91
    Forum Member DaSharkie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarcusKspn View Post
    How do you know he suffered a concussion, at this point that is pretty much just a weak attempt at a cover up.

    "He could not possibly be that bad a person, maybe he just hit his head hard enough to make him to this..."
    Because he can make supposition and hypotheticals - it's just those that disagree with him that are not allowed to.
    "Too many people spend money they haven't earned, to buy things they don't want, to impress people they don't like." Will Rogers

    The borrower is slave to the lender. Proverbs 22:7 - Debt free since 10/5/2009.

    "No man's life, liberty, or property are safe while the legislature is in session." - New York Judge Gideon Tucker

    "As Americans we must always remember that we all have a common enemy, an enemy that is dangerous, powerful and relentless. I refer, of course, to the federal government." - Dave Barry

    www.daveramsey.com www.clarkhoward.com www.heritage.org

  12. #92
    Back In Black ChiefKN's Avatar
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    He had a concussion?

    No, he was drunk.

    Both points cannot be proven.

    However, in his own testimony, Kennedy admits to his negligence.

    There was an inquest, he was found to be negligent. Unfortunately, the prosecutor there chose not to pursue it.
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

    "The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list."

    "When tempted to fight fire with fire, remember that the Fire Department usually uses water."

  13. #93
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    Can someone tell me what office Laura Welch Bush was elected to?
    The American people will never knowingly adopt Socialism. But under the name of 'liberalism' they will adopt every fragment of the Socialist program, until one day America will be a Socialist nation, without knowing how it happened. --Norman Mattoon Thomas, 6 time presidential candidate for the Socialist Party of America

  14. #94
    Forum Member scfire86's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChiefKN View Post
    He had a concussion?

    No, he was drunk.

    Both points cannot be proven.

    However, in his own testimony, Kennedy admits to his negligence.

    There was an inquest, he was found to be negligent. Unfortunately, the prosecutor there chose not to pursue it.
    He stated that was the case. Google his name and concussion. You'll get a few hits.

    Don't believe him. No big deal. You're speculating about his BAC. Your point is no more valid than mine.
    Last edited by scfire86; 09-04-2009 at 10:47 AM.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

  15. #95
    Forum Member scfire86's Avatar
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    This will be my last post on this thread since I got what I wanted.

    I've been on this forum and around ff's long enough to observe and read the behavior. Whenever a news reporter writes an article criticizing the actions of a ff, police officer, or a military person during an incident or the heat of battle there is much outpouring of namecalling for said reporter. Typically the logic is the individual is Monday morning quarterbacking, wasn't there, has never done the job or all three....etc, etc, etc.

    Yet that is what Kennedy's critics (including those on this board) have been doing since that fateful night. Somehow they know all about the circumstances, his actions, and what he should have done and why it happened. Yet none of them were there.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

  16. #96
    Back In Black ChiefKN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    Your point is no more valid than mine.
    That was exactly my point. Bravo!
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

    "The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list."

    "When tempted to fight fire with fire, remember that the Fire Department usually uses water."

  17. #97
    Back In Black ChiefKN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    I've been on this forum and around ff's long enough to observe and read the behavior. Whenever a news reporter writes an article criticizing the actions of a ff, police officer, or a military person during an incident or the heat of battle there is much outpouring of namecalling for said reporter. Typically the logic is the individual is Monday morning quarterbacking, wasn't there, has never done the job or all three....etc, etc, etc.
    I would imagine on the Pro Ted Kennedy sites that he gets a lot of support from those who like him.

    Boo Hoo, he was a public figure who used his celebrity when it suited his purpose. You cannot then criticize those who then attack him as a public figure when he has done something that is HIGHLY suspect.

    I would expect that the majority of firefighters would support a brother firefighter until proven to be wrong (in most cases).

    So, I'm not sure what you are trying to prove.

    Yet that is what Kennedy's critics (including those on this board) have been doing since that fateful night. Somehow they know all about the circumstances, his actions, and what he should have done and why it happened. Yet none of them were there.
    You really need to research this more. There is a great synopsis of this event that was done in the Boston Globe.

    http://www.boston.com/news/nation/ar...happaquiddick/



    .
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

    "The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list."

    "When tempted to fight fire with fire, remember that the Fire Department usually uses water."

  18. #98
    Forum Member DaSharkie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    This will be my last post on this thread since I got what I wanted.

    I've been on this forum and around ff's long enough to observe and read the behavior. Whenever a news reporter writes an article criticizing the actions of a ff, police officer, or a military person during an incident or the heat of battle there is much outpouring of namecalling for said reporter. Typically the logic is the individual is Monday morning quarterbacking, wasn't there, has never done the job or all three....etc, etc, etc.

    Yet that is what Kennedy's critics (including those on this board) have been doing since that fateful night. Somehow they know all about the circumstances, his actions, and what he should have done and why it happened. Yet none of them were there.
    Yet another chance for me to throw the hypocrite flag on you. You get to lambaste, cajole, insult, demean, ridicule, and make unsubstantiated statements on these boards against Republicans, conservatives, or anyone that disagrees with you.......yet when you see someone do it to a Democrat, liberal, or someone you agree with your pretty pink panties get all in a wad and you cry like a little 9 year old girl.

    You are a piece of hypocritical work.
    "Too many people spend money they haven't earned, to buy things they don't want, to impress people they don't like." Will Rogers

    The borrower is slave to the lender. Proverbs 22:7 - Debt free since 10/5/2009.

    "No man's life, liberty, or property are safe while the legislature is in session." - New York Judge Gideon Tucker

    "As Americans we must always remember that we all have a common enemy, an enemy that is dangerous, powerful and relentless. I refer, of course, to the federal government." - Dave Barry

    www.daveramsey.com www.clarkhoward.com www.heritage.org

  19. #99
    Forum Member DaSharkie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChiefKN View Post
    You really need to research this more. There is a great synopsis of this event that was done in the Boston Globe.

    http://www.boston.com/news/nation/ar...happaquiddick/ .
    He does not need to read it, he already knows everything. You just wasted bandwidth there Chief because he does not read the things we use to support our statements.

    Even if it is from one of the most useless liberal rags around - The Boston Globe is the subsidiary of the New York Times.
    "Too many people spend money they haven't earned, to buy things they don't want, to impress people they don't like." Will Rogers

    The borrower is slave to the lender. Proverbs 22:7 - Debt free since 10/5/2009.

    "No man's life, liberty, or property are safe while the legislature is in session." - New York Judge Gideon Tucker

    "As Americans we must always remember that we all have a common enemy, an enemy that is dangerous, powerful and relentless. I refer, of course, to the federal government." - Dave Barry

    www.daveramsey.com www.clarkhoward.com www.heritage.org

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    Quote Originally Posted by snowball View Post
    Without getting political, I'm gonna do a name drop.





    Michael Jackson
    Did any of the soldiers who died in Iraq and Afghanistan that day get anywhere near that much attention?
    If The McNeil/Leher Hour still reads off the names of soldiers killed in action,I think that was the only place it was mentioned by the "mainstream media".

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