1. #1
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    Default Butadiene tank, WWYD?

    Okay hazmat guys, let's talk about a nasty scenario:
    road accident involving a tanker, pressurized tank filled of Butadiene.
    The tanker has rolled over and there is a spill in the liquid phase space of the vessel, what would you do?
    Consider that is night and the tanker crashed while crossing an industrial area near an harbour, workers on place in the surrounding industry.
    Some info about butadiene:
    Boiling point 24 F, very low flash point, carcinogens, can polymerize with a sudden exothermic reaction.
    Discuss PPE and SOP, consider that the conductor is badly injured and need medical attention: he sustained head injury but you will found him collapsed outside the tanker, near the spill.

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    Isolation distance of 1/2 mile in every direction to start with.

    Entry team members would be in Level A encapsulated suits with full SCBA.

    Priority would be the driver. He needs to be removed, deconed and treated.

    As far as the leak goes, I dont see rolling the tank so the leak is in the vapor space as being a great idea. And being as you cant touch the liquid product with your person or a water stream, I see three options.

    A: Wait for the product to leak and control runoff.
    B: Find a way to offload the product to another container safely.
    c: If I am reading it right, it should float on water. So, pumping water into the tank would cause the product to float on the water, leaving the water to leak from the hole in the tank. Plug/patch the hole and go from there.

    This was done in a hurry, so if I missed something please fill me in.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rescue101 View Post
    I don't mind fire rolling over my head. I just don't like it rolling UNDER my a**.

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    Ok, before discussing how to deal with the leak, what would you do with the workers in the surroinding workplace?
    Does the reactivity of the product makes you wonder of something?

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    Well, seeing as it is reactive highly with just about anything, I would immediatly evacuate the area of any people who didnt need to be there.

    Reactivity is a big issue here. You are looking for something in particular, I can tell. Fill me in, bro.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rescue101 View Post
    I don't mind fire rolling over my head. I just don't like it rolling UNDER my a**.

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    Is this a road tanker or railroad tank car? Your post leads me to believe it is a railroad tank car.

    First and foremost, before you even think about doing anything involving the railroad in any way, you need to make contact with them and make sure traffic is going to be stopped on all tracks, in all directions in proximity of the incident.

    Crossing boxes (if equipped with lights) are required to have a crossing ID number on them. Use it. The dispatcher for the railroad will know exactly what crossing it is, what milepost, what subdivision, etc.

    I'm curioius as to how the conductor received the head injury. You can damn well guarantee that if he knows he's struck a haz-mat car, or his train has been struck, he won't be walking back there.

    As an aside, railroad conductors carry full hazmat paperwork for all hazmat shipped in their train. Including an ERG. You can damn well bet that the train crew will NOT approach a hazmat car that's damaged if it's not along the lines of 1202, 1203, 1993, etc. Chlorine, butadiene, etc will be "checked" by the FD/hazmat before we'll go near them.
    Quote Originally Posted by ThNozzleMan
    Why? Because we are firemen. We are decent human beings. We would be compelled by the overwhelming impulse to save an innocent child from a tragic, painful death because in the end, we are MEN.

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    Okay, more infos:
    The tanker is a road tanker, the driver received head injury during the roll, he did not fell unconscious immediately and was able to exit the driving cab to go to check the damage to the tanker. He did this dumb thing because of an unknown reason that can be related to shock or unproper training. He then fell unconscious near the spill.
    Reactivity is an issue, as well as toxicity. What would you do to control or asses this hazards?
    Let me say that a joint response of FD and local traffic control, as well as to promptly asses the nature of the chemical in the tank is the standard response also in my country.

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    Alright - you still don't have your story straight.

    consider that the conductor is badly injured and need medical attention
    What role does a freight train and a conductor play in this?
    Quote Originally Posted by ThNozzleMan
    Why? Because we are firemen. We are decent human beings. We would be compelled by the overwhelming impulse to save an innocent child from a tragic, painful death because in the end, we are MEN.

    I A C O J
    FTM-PTB


    Honorary Disclaimer: While I am a manufacturer representative, I am not here to sell my product. Any advice or knowledge shared is for informational purposes only. I do not use Firehouse.Com for promotional purposes.

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    Sorry, probably I didn't explained well, I mean that the tanker is a road tanker, not a railroad.
    Basically I would like to discuss how the emergency service will deal with one of the specific hazard of this chemical: it's reactivity and it's capacity to polymerize quickly and exothermically.

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    It's useful to note that, with a boiling point of 24F, ambient temperature would be an important consideration with 1,3-butadiene. It is slightly soluble (a few hundred ppm in water), so while contamination of waterways is a concern, much of it will convert quickly to the gas phase although one might get pooling of liquid if the leak is large enough.

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    Very interesting observation, Truckie,
    What would/could you do to mitigate the exposure of the public, in case of a pool?

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    as bevis would say ....burn something.....tank transfer...unstable....flare it or vent and burn.....nah, lets talk about it and do nothing, after all not my problem.........incident specific/information driven....
    Excuse me while I FART. Find A Recent Text.

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    okay, your comments are all interesting, but maybe you missed something....let me state again that this nasty chemical is highly reactive and could start a very exothermic polymerization reaction.
    How would you deal with this? I know what is the response in my country, I don't believe it is a safe response, but at least deal with the problem.

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    Giovanni,What country are you from and why so many questions regarding this specific chemical?

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    Default BD Spill

    Start Evacuation radius for large spill from ERG.

    Full Bunker gear with SCBA for rescue.

    Catch a hydrant and prepare for fire and decon of truck drive.

    My initial concern would be with the potential fire. Toxicity needs to be a concern when LEL has been dealt with.

    Wearing level A in products that are flammable without continuous monitoring of atmosphere concerns me.

    LEL 2 % UEL 12 %

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    Hi, my country is Italy, my background is chemical engineering and I am interested in this nasty chemical as long it introduces many different hazards and many different variables to be considered.
    Moreover I would like to discuss what are your guidelines in dealing with that, as I know a little about the one of my country and I would compare it.

    I do not work in any hazmat team, although I have a little background in industrial hazard prevention and control, my actual work is related to fire behaviour and science.
    Last edited by Giovanni012; 09-28-2009 at 11:56 AM.

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    1,3-butadiene is inhibited, at least in the US, or it can't be shipped. It's not even a good idea to store it without the inhibitor, tertiary-butylcatechol (TBC), since it will eventually gum up the valves and PSV's with polymerized product.

    With this in mind, the exothermic reaction your worried about is not as bad as you think and won't happen as quickly as you think. It's when the inhibitor is removed or the chemical is in a gas phase that it's not inhibited.

    I'm not real sure what you mean by "liquid phase space" but I think, please correct if I'm mistaken, that it's the vapor space. In the US, this product in transported in MC-331 type containers which is a pressurized, single wall vessel.

    Is the vessel intregrity compromised, torn up valving or a torqued-up inspection port? That means alot in the tactical end.

    With the info supplied and the great replies the only thing I would add is notifying surrounding facilities so the can shelter in place and notifying the Coast Guard of a potential marine hazard and off load into another container with water spray on the vapor point to dilute and disperse if I couldn't roll it, plug it or tape it.

    Notify Chemtrec for specific MSDS.

    Control your run off and ensure that booms/dikes are included in your hot zone.

    As far as the driver, I would be ok with a Level B with SCBA if he wasn't in a cloud just for timely rescue purposes. Butadiene is a CNS suppressant and the normal exposure route is inhilation although it can be absorbed through the skin. All other ops I would conduct in a Level A.

    Good discussion

    Be safe, R2

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