View Poll Results: Replace or Refurb

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  • Replace Completely

    8 27.59%
  • Refurb ladder and add new Chassis

    21 72.41%
  1. #1
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    Question Refurb or Replace ????

    Hi all i know there are a ton of threads on this put i just want some mere input we have a 1975 Mack CF 75' Aerialscope and we are thinking about either replacing it or putting a new chassis underneath the scope which would be our best option???

  2. #2
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    It's a loaded question.

    First and foremost...The (old) Aerialscopes are the toughest, baddest aerial towers out there. Hands down. Camden NJ just recently FINALLY "put one down" that was around for about 2 million fires. The body finally fell off the chassis. If I were in charge, my fleet would be Scopes for my buckets and Tillers for my sticks.

    Do you want another Scope? If so, do you have about 1,000,000 laying around or do you have access to 1,000,000? (thats not exaggerating, either!) If you have the money, by all means,buy a new one!

    If you dont have the money, refurb! Save money by keeping the Mack driveline. Have it all rebuilt or reconditioned and the CF Cab rebuilt. If it were my truck I would have Interstate Truck Equipment in Hagerstown, Maryland doing the refurb.
    Last edited by FWDbuff; 09-02-2009 at 10:23 PM.
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    Listen to Buff, he knows what it is that he speaks of. 4-5 yars ago when we were considering refurbing an Aerialscope we found ITE Mack to be the most recommended facility. But, plan ahead at that time they had two year waiting list.

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    Probably a reason for that. T.C.

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    Default Refurb or Replace

    I have been through extensive refurb projects with our fleet over the years. This has included engines, rear mount ladders and Snorkels. The results have been mixed.

    If the vehicle has been a good piece of equipment prior to the refurb it will be a good piece of equipment after the refurb. If it was problematic before the refurb it will only get worse.

    Your best bet providing you have the money available is to refurb the tower assembly in its entirety (boom, bucket, hydraulics, torque box, jacks, etc.) and put it on a new chassis.

    If this is not an option remember that the more extensive the refurb the better.

  6. #6
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    Question

    When u say replace do you mean replace with another 75' aerialscope? Have you determined through an unbiased objective assessment of your community that 75' is still long enough?

    If the answers are yes than by all means refurb!

  7. #7
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    Yes we have determined that 75' is long enough and i think i will check into ITE Mack and just get it a complete refurb i absolutely love the old cf mack and everything about the scope. when we decided to purchase a ladder truck we went around to a couple different places and tried out thiers and out of all the scope was the absolute best in my opinion and we set out to buy one the very next day

  8. #8
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    Cost will be the determining factor on whether a complete frame up refurb or replacing the chassis makes more sense. Is the chassis you now run relatively well maintained or does it need a complete to the bare frame rebuild?
    Is the drive train and suspension in need of a major overhaul /rebuild or just maintenance refurb? Is the cab and body solid or do both need to be replaced?

    After all this you will have a newly rebuilt 35 year old truck with an arialscope
    which is a great truck, but is it worth spending the money to still have a"new " 35 year old truck?

  9. #9
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    Cool Glider Kit

    U might look into doing a glider kit. If the body and compartments on your old truck are wore out, u could re-chassis the Aerialscope (crane boom and outriggers) on a glider kit. U might love the old Mac chassis but it severely lacks some of the good safety and convenience features of today's chassis! Rebuild and reuse your engine, transmission, axles even if u can, ect. This can save money, and u wont have to deal with the emissions crap on newer engines. Do it right and using the Aerialscope for another 30 years might be very possible.

  10. #10
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    Thumbs up Refurb/Re-chassis

    Your department can save over $ 350,000 by going with a Remount, at a cost of $ 700,000 - $ 750,000 depending on the options. A new 75' aerialscope from Seagrave is about $ 1 million and up. Mounting a Baker refurbed scope on a new chassis cab is just like a new truck with a warranty and aerial certification. Our department has been trying to get our residents to approve funding for a re-chassis over a year now, we will give it another try sometime next month!

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    Quote Originally Posted by viperfire1 View Post
    U might look into doing a glider kit. If the body and compartments on your old truck are wore out, u could re-chassis the Aerialscope (crane boom and outriggers) on a glider kit. U might love the old Mac chassis but it severely lacks some of the good safety and convenience features of today's chassis! Rebuild and reuse your engine, transmission, axles even if u can, ect. This can save money, and u wont have to deal with the emissions crap on newer engines. Do it right and using the Aerialscope for another 30 years might be very possible.
    Such as???????????
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    ABS, Stab Control systems, airbags, a modern cab that will not collapse into a pile of rust in the event of a rollover. Chassis that has been roll tested. Perhaps even seatbelts? IFS? Modern pump/engine controls?

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    Thank u neiowa.
    A fully enclosed cab might be nice to!

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by neiowa View Post
    ABS, Stab Control systems, airbags, a modern cab that will not collapse into a pile of rust in the event of a rollover. Chassis that has been roll tested. Perhaps even seatbelts? IFS? Modern pump/engine controls?
    Everything that an Ex-USAF fuel tanker doesn't have. Thanks.

    Every CF Mack I have ever ridden on had seatbelts. Many had fully enclosed cabs. And.....*GASP!* Some even had AIR CONDITIONING!

    Thousands upon thousands of CF Macks (and Hahns. And Seagraves, and American Lafances, and Ward Lafrances, and Pierces, and Howes, and FWD's, and .....and.....and .......and ........Each and every fire chassis built up until the mid-1980's or so were all built without any of the above.

    And they did just fine!

    And they did it without computers. They did it without breaking down on the scene, with everyone standing around scratching their heads, trying to figure out what was wrong, eventually having to be towed back to the shop.

    They did it without having to call someone with a laptop to plug into the truck, and screw around for a few hours while the truck sat out of service.

    Their function was simple in it's design. Parts could easily be replaced in-house, or even on a fireground if necessary.

    But above all else. They all did it getting into no more accidents than modern-day apparatus.

    There is a truck, sitting out in my garage, no less that 20 yards from where I now sit, that is 51 years old. Has never had an off-frame refurbishment. Hell the most technically involved repair it probably has ever had was a clutch replacement which was done by two adults and a 14 year old....None of which had any formal training as a mechanic. No computers were involved (except for searching the internet to find the replacement clutch.) Hand tools all the way. Closest thing to a computer that actually got involved in the process was a set of vernier calipers. I seriously doubt any of the young kids reading this even knows what those are (google it now boys and girls....) Oh and the calipers used do not have a digital readout. Perhaps the foot-pound torque wrench may come close to being a computer, I don't know. Bottom line....Are there any trucks out there, built during the last year (2008-2009) that will be around in the year 2060, that will not have to have any kind of major overhauls, off-frame restorations, etc??

    I Doubt it.

    The kids 51 years from now will be trying to figure out how to use MS Windows 2007 so that they can read the engine computer.

    Rant off.
    Last edited by FWDbuff; 09-06-2009 at 06:16 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by WoodbridgeFFII View Post
    A new 75' aerialscope from Seagrave is about $ 1 million and up.
    We just got a new 2009 95ft scope for $1,036,000

    pics at www.hazletwpfirerescue.com

  16. #16
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    $1 million is a fair price, we pay almost twice that for a bronto over here, but why not do a re-chassis, if the thing is rebuilt front to back, and is x-rayed, then I can't see the hassle.

    BUT make sure its done right, new fancy cab/chassis are the downfall. We re-chassied 3 SKYJETS on merceded chassis and the spend 99% of the time in the shop. All to do with bloody computers and the fact that new trucks just aren't tough enough ! They were on bullet proof International ACCO's, one station just got rid of theirs at 29 years old and took one that was 17 years old, and they are happy as larry.

    So, go figure, is new always better ?

  17. #17
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    Default Just An Update

    Hi all just giving an update we held a meeting night before last and we decided we are going to get the ol' girl refurbed front to back and keep the mack chassis and driveline. We are going to shop around but i think we are either gonna go with Seagrave or Pierce both said they can do the refurb we are going to egt the motor and trans rebuilt to new condition and we are going to add a bigger hale pump (1750 gpm) new whelen edge strobe lightbar and the rest will be led's and we are going to have the front of the bucket and the bag of the truck done in yellow and red chevron and getting it painted our deep maroon color thanks to all who gave input it was greatly appreciated

    Stay Safe Out There,
    Ryan

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