New Firefighting Invention

[ChrisCarbone]

Here's an idea.. how about we use helicopters to lift 1000 gal "buckets"...

Because once you drop it, which doesn't help much, you become totally useless as you were totally useless while you were flying around spending fuel and risking your life and the vehicle to carry it.

[ChrisCarbone]

It will never work. Period.

So many factors and reasons.

Wildland fire is so dynamic, the heat, the winds...

Water is so limited

Firelines are miles long

Simply putting water on the fire won't put it out, you will always need some ground troops.

This idea borders on the absurd.

Your arguments are invalid.

Wildland fire is so dynamic = The Sky Snake is dynamic
Water is so limited = Don't use a Sky Snake if you don't have water around
Firelines are miles long = A Sky Snake is miles long
Simply putting water on the fire won't put it out = Yes it will
You will always need some ground troops = Duh
This idea borders on the absurd = I don't respect this comment

[ChiefKN]

Your arguments are invalid.

Wildland fire is so dynamic = The Sky Snake is dynamic
Water is so limited = Don't use a Sky Snake if you don't have water around
Firelines are miles long = A Sky Snake is miles long
Simply putting water on the fire won't put it out = Yes it will
You will always need some ground troops = Duh
This idea borders on the absurd = I don't respect this comment

How many years have you fought wildland fires?

I've got 23 years.

But go on, tell me how I'm wrong again.

[ChrisCarbone]

How many years have you fought wildland fires?

I've got 23 years.

But go on, tell me how I'm wrong again.

I've got 29 years of fighting wildland fires.

Here's how you are wrong: you have no will to change.

[ChiefKN]

Let's play math games. Have you done any research on this portion of it?

The largest hose we use for structural firefighting is 5", Large Diameter Hose. It holds about 1 gal per foot. So, not even counting the weight of the hose, a 100' of hose weighs...... you guessed it, 800 lbs.

So, the very large fires (the only ones that could absorb the costs of the infrastructure needed to run this contraption) have firelines that measure in miles. But let's keep it to 1 mile, for the sake of math.

1 mile = 5280, let's round it off to 5000 for easy math.

That's 40,000 lbs of water, not counting the weight of the hose. The weight of the hose is around 110 lbs for 100 feet, so again, let's round. Let's call it a pound a foot (couplings play into this so you could probably use longer lengths and cut down the weight).

So, that adds another 5,000 lbs

So, with hose total weight right now is 45,000 lbs of wiggling fluid mass.

Let me ask you another question. Do you know what friction loss is? Do you know what "head pressure" is...

You said you wanted to float this over mountains/forests. I'm not very good at physics, but pushing that volume of water 100 feet up is gonna require one hell of a pump (if it's even possible).

Have you done that math??

Now, put down the bong and go grab some twinkies.

[ChiefKN]

I've got 29 years of fighting wildland fires.

Here's how you are wrong: you have no will to change.

Don't you mean "countryside fires"?

I'm calling you out as a liar.

[FlyingKiwi]

Hey Chief

Give him a break, it is going to be the biggest pump in town, didn't you catch where he said....

or even reactors could help lift it

Now a nuclear powered portable pump gets my vote as the most awesome tool ever thought of.

Just imagine the kudos your department would get when you pull up the fire headquarters with that puppy on a truck.

Every one else will be green with envy, or radiocative poisoning.

[ChrisCarbone]

Don't you mean "countryside fires"?

I'm calling you out as a liar.

My mother language is french, I didn't remember you called it wildland fires.

As for the maths, I'm not a engineer and never said I was. I'm suggesting an invention that as not been researched or developed. I simply want to have the right people to think it over and maybe build a prototype or a computer simulation.

[ChiefKN]

Hey Chief

Give him a break, it is going to be the biggest pump in town, didn't you catch where he said....



Now a nuclear powered portable pump gets my vote as the most awesome tool ever thought of.

Just imagine the kudos your department would get when you pull up the fire headquarters with that puppy on a truck.

Every one else will be green with envy, or radiocative poisoning.

Depends. Will there be gold leaf lettering????

.

[ChiefKN]

My mother language is french, I didn't remember you called it wildland fires.

As for the maths, I'm not a engineer and never said I was. I'm suggesting an invention that as not been researched or developed. I simply want to have the right people to think it over and maybe build a prototype or a computer simulation.

You are from another country, so I will retract calling you a liar. Wherever you fought wildland fires must be nothing like our large devastating fires.

However, I think your idea is naive and just not practical or even possible.

[ChiefKN]

FYI, 45,000 lbs is 99,000 kg.

Figured I'd help you with that math as I'm sure you use metrics.

[ChrisCarbone]

FYI, 45,000 lbs is 99,000 kg.

Figured I'd help you with that math as I'm sure you use metrics.

For typical atmospheric conditions (20 °C, 68 °F), a hot air balloon heated to (99 °C, 210 °F) requires about 3.91 m³ of envelope volume in order to lift 1 kilogram (62.5 ft³/lb).

That would be 3,125,000 ft³ of envelope.

The largest hot air balloon in the world is 180,000 ft³ of envelope. Only 17 times less than what is needed according to your calculations.

[tomwnh]

This thread is going to be lots of fun to watch as it develops.

Just a quick comment then I'm going to sit back and enjoy. You didn't INVENT anything. You had an idea.

I invented a new device that would greatly improve countryside firefighting. Since I can't fund the research and development of this invention, and that I feel it is important business, I offer to share it to an homeland security agency.

[ChrisCarbone]

You didn't INVENT anything. You had an idea.

An invention can be intellectual actually.

[LaFireEducator]

I'm pretty open to new ideas.

But the math and the potential cost and scale of this .... dare I say the word (say it! say it!) ..... "gizmo" ..... would be staggering for very little benefit.

[FWDbuff]

An invention can be intellectual actually.

Intellectually, are you stupid, high, drunk, or all of the above?

[ChrisCarbone]

I'm pretty open to new ideas.

But the math and the potential cost and scale of this .... dare I say the word (say it! say it!) ..... "gizmo" ..... would be staggering for very little benefit.

A smaller scale Sky Snake could be made (let's say a 300 feet long) which wouldn't cost as much and would be a good indicator of the potential of the device. It would also deploy faster and could even be attached to a fire truck.

[ChrisCarbone]

One of the problem with water hoses is the wiggling effect. A solution to this would be the addition of an ajustable "spine" to the hose. That would also be inserted in the Sky Snake.

[ScareCrow57]

Here's an idea.. how about we use helicopters to lift 1000 gal "buckets"...



OH wait.

You apparently don't get it. Instead spending $1,000,000 on a ladder, quint, or snorkel truck, you might possibly be able to build a device that can get up to 100' or 200' without putting a person in the air. No ladders, no falling danger. I'm also not looking at wild-land fires but residential fires. These are the kinds of crazy ideas that are introduced in brainstorming sessions and come out as an excellent solution to a problem. It takes forward thinking and a creative mind to perhaps come up with the solutions of tomorrow.

[ScareCrow57]

FYI, 45,000 lbs is 99,000 kg.

Figured I'd help you with that math as I'm sure you use metrics.

You got it backwards - 45,000 lbs is 20411.65665 kg