Why register? ...To Enhance Your Experience
Closed Thread
Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 21 to 40 of 68
  1. #21
    Early Adopter cozmosis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 1999
    Location
    Arkansas
    Posts
    1,921

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainGonzo View Post
    Fixing a flat on a bike for child or showing up at a neighborhood cookout
    (we all know that the Jakes are there for the food! ) is different than washing schmeg from Jumbo, Dumbo or whatever the elephant's name was.
    Clearing a dozen kids from inside or on the engine at a block party takes about as long as it would to break down one section of hose at the elephant wash-down. If administration was asking me to water grass or clean streets of dirt (I know places where both occur regularly)... I'd have a beef. But elephant detail is an obvious feel-good event that's not going to be happening on any reguar basis.

    Obviously NYC is a different place than Maumelle, Ark., but I can tell you that we'd lose more respect from the electorate for protesting this assignment than we would gain by doing it.


  2. #22
    Forum Member Bones42's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    Pt. Beach, NJ
    Posts
    10,578

    Default

    1/2 an hour? 30 minutes? Somehow, I believe smarter heads are aware of a 30 minute time span in the life of the FDNY.

    How many hours are they out of service for training and such? And doesn't the FDNY have other houses covering during those times? Isn't it possible there was coverage during that 30 minute time period?

    Is this possibly, the Union, making a bigger deal out of this than what it really is?
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

  3. #23
    Forum Member nyckftbl's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    On a Hill, overlooking George's Kingdom
    Posts
    2,549

    Default

    LOL....dont you people have anything else to do besides b*tch about our b*tching?

    When the expected response time of a company is within 4 or 5 minutes, and it now doubles due to the company being taken OOS, moved to the other end of their response area (a semi remote area where 2nd and 3rd due companies have a long response time), it is NOT ok. and comparing this to taking us OOS is incredibly naive. Some of you should be ashamed for even attempting to justify this.


    Kind of curious....had anything gone wrong...from the most mundane of mechanical issues with the rig to :




    How many of you would be singing a different tune?

    Not to mention that in a profession where seconds count (except in Las world) some of you are ok with losing MINUTES of response time to wash a f*cking elephant. Have you all lost your minds?
    Last edited by nyckftbl; 09-07-2009 at 08:34 AM.
    Proud East Coast Traditionalist.

  4. #24
    Forum Member nyckftbl's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    On a Hill, overlooking George's Kingdom
    Posts
    2,549

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bones42 View Post
    1/2 an hour? 30 minutes? Somehow, I believe smarter heads are aware of a 30 minute time span in the life of the FDNY.

    How many hours are they out of service for training and such? And doesn't the FDNY have other houses covering during those times? Isn't it possible there was coverage during that 30 minute time period?

    Is this possibly, the Union, making a bigger deal out of this than what it really is?
    Coverage? What does that mean? youre ok with the 8 minute 2nd due response time so they could wash a f*cking elephant? bad enough we get taken OOS for necessary training, medicals, etc. There is no justification for putting the residents of that neighborhood in jeopardy for a photo op. None. This isnt conjecture, Ive had it happen IN MY FIREHOUSE 3 times in the last few years, where one company was taken OOS and a job came in, putting the lives of civilians and firemen in danger. Multiply that by the 200 or so firehouses, and it happens on a fairly regular basis.

    But you can believe there are smarter people who know what we do in an average 1/2 hour. the evidence proves otherwise.




    The ignorance displayed on this forum on an ever increasing basis in the name of playing devils advocate, attempting to know better than those who actually are from the area/city being discussed, or the chance to make snide remarks about certain large municipal depts is making this forum damn near unreadable.
    Last edited by nyckftbl; 09-07-2009 at 08:46 AM.
    Proud East Coast Traditionalist.

  5. #25
    Forum Member FHJ718's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Boston
    Posts
    174

    Default

    So what you are saying is firefighters should do nothing but sit around waiting for a box to come in?
    Seriously, how long does it take to hose down an elephant?
    Peoples perception is everything when it comes to public service. When you shop for lunch/dinner are you always near the firehouse?

    We have all had to do things we don't like but when we are on duty it's not our time. The days of hiding behind the doors are long over. More and more cities and towns are looking to cut and let's be honest, when it comes to the Big 3 (Fire, Police, and Teachers) who will be the first to suffer?

  6. #26
    Forum Member nyckftbl's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    On a Hill, overlooking George's Kingdom
    Posts
    2,549

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FHJ718 View Post
    So what you are saying is firefighters should do nothing but sit around waiting for a box to come in?

    Who said anything even remotely close to that? Try not to let your own personal experiences and biases cloud your reading skills.


    Seriously, how long does it take to hose down an elephant?

    How long does it take a civilian to die when the company is taken OOS?


    Peoples perception is everything when it comes to public service.

    LOL You sure you work in Boston? Our job is to protect the citizens of NY, not to make them feel better about enjoying the circus. Taking a company OOS and leaving citizens unprotected is the opposite of public sevice. Would you be singing the same tune if someone died while they were participating in this feel good public event?

    When you shop for lunch/dinner are you always near the firehouse?

    Ummm we shop in our 1st or 2nd due areas, and WE ARE IN SERVICE.

    We have all had to do things we don't like but when we are on duty it's not our time. The days of hiding behind the doors are long over. More and more cities and towns are looking to cut and let's be honest, when it comes to the Big 3 (Fire, Police, and Teachers) who will be the first to suffer?
    seems some of you have forgotten what our JOB is.
    Proud East Coast Traditionalist.

  7. #27
    MembersZone Subscriber
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Canuck Expat May be anywhere
    Posts
    2,906

    Default

    I'm not sure exactly how long it takes to wash a damn elephant or if this was done at the station. All of our stations here have a 1 1/2 hydrant connection at the front of station to wash down trucks on the apron. They use old hose and a nozzle not off a truck. I'd think that if a station has 3 or more crews on, 2 could respond while others wrap up the damn elephant. One other thing, its OK to have a crew of 5 wash an elephant but only put 4 on a truck or engine? WTF? I wish the idiot who thought this up would have required the station to respond to his house at this time.

  8. #28
    Forum Member FHJ718's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Boston
    Posts
    174

    Default

    "bad enough we get taken OOS for necessary training, medicals, etc."

    I can read just fine.

    "You sure you work in Boston?"

    Since the mid 80s

    "Our job is to protect the citizens of NY, not to make them feel better about enjoying the circus. Taking a company OOS and leaving citizens unprotected is the opposite of public sevice. Would you be singing the same tune if someone died while they were participating in this feel good public event?"

    A little dramatic there huh?

    There's no need to get defensive as no one is attacking you. What I'm trying to convey is sometimes we do stuff we don't like but it's part of the job. Make the best of it. Maybe the union should of used it as an opportunity to get good press.

    As far as perception, my In-Laws live in your city and my Father-in-law wanted to know why the firemen are b*tching when so many are out of work. Of course he doesn't understand the job and trying to explain to him was a waste of time but it' an example of how people perceive things. We are in the days of "what have you done for me lately". Look at LA and the Station fire there are people claiming the fire department didn't adequately protect them based on class?

    I'm saying that people don't give a sh*t about tradition or anything like it anymore, all they care about is who can I blame for my problems. So does it hurt to spend 30 minutes to wash down Dumbo?

  9. #29
    Forum Member johnny46's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Posts
    2,094

    Default

    An elephant is faithful 100 percent!
    Logic and proportion have fallen sloppy dead.

  10. #30
    Forum Member nyckftbl's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    On a Hill, overlooking George's Kingdom
    Posts
    2,549

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FHJ718 View Post
    "bad enough we get taken OOS for necessary training, medicals, etc."

    I can read just fine.

    Clearly not. If you are ok with taking companies OOS for medicals, etc. Good for you. I believe we shouldnt, and that it should be a different way as to not put civilians at risk. However, that opinion still is nowhere near the gigantic leap of logic you made in assuming I want to sit in my firehouse all day waiting for a run. It was a nice attempt at a strawman, but sorry, it doesnt fly. I have NO problem doing things in the community I protect, but taking companies OOS for BS is completely illogical. In fact....I can probably safely say myself and my company have had more interaction with our community with regards to block parties, fire prevention, and the free smoke detector program than probably almost everyone here who posts at this website. It isnt hard to find out why, just search some previous posts of mine.

    "You sure you work in Boston?"

    Since the mid 80s

    Weird....I thought Boston was a strong union shop.

    "Our job is to protect the citizens of NY, not to make them feel better about enjoying the circus. Taking a company OOS and leaving citizens unprotected is the opposite of public sevice. Would you be singing the same tune if someone died while they were participating in this feel good public event?"

    A little dramatic there huh?

    Alittle dramatic? ITS HAPPENED ALREADY! There have already been cases of people dying in this city when companies were OOS for BS EEO training, or right after companies got permanently closed. Why do you think some companies are "must fill" if they are OOS? (Besides the fact that they have Bloomturd in their pocket)

    There's no need to get defensive as no one is attacking you. What I'm trying to convey is sometimes we do stuff we don't like but it's part of the job. Make the best of it. Maybe the union should of used it as an opportunity to get good press.

    Doing stuff we dont want to do is obviously part of the job. The only thing I want to do is fight fires. However, part of our job should not be putting civilian lives in danger by being taken OOS to wash a f*cking elephant. I personally dont give a f*ck if you think thats alittle too dramatic...its the truth.

    As far as perception, my In-Laws live in your city and my Father-in-law wanted to know why the firemen are b*tching when so many are out of work. Of course he doesn't understand the job and trying to explain to him was a waste of time but it' an example of how people perceive things. We are in the days of "what have you done for me lately". Look at LA and the Station fire there are people claiming the fire department didn't adequately protect them based on class?

    If someone in your family died because the 1st due company was out washing an elephant instead of being in service available to respond, would you still be ok with how we took public perception and made it more important than our duties as firemen? Answer honestly here.

    I'm saying that people don't give a sh*t about tradition or anything like it anymore, all they care about is who can I blame for my problems. So does it hurt to spend 30 minutes to wash down Dumbo?
    It didnt hurt this time....what happens when you roll the dice next time?
    Proud East Coast Traditionalist.

  11. #31
    Forum Member FHJ718's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Boston
    Posts
    174

    Talking

    Taking companies OOS for non-firefighting activities is part of the job. I don't like it anymore than you but it's the way it is. My days of getting upset over it are long gone. If my superior gives me a lawful order, I do it.( I just B*tch about it later, not through the press but through my blog ).
    I never liked EMS running but up here it's almost 40% of our running now and EMS here is a separate agency. As we are shrinking they are growing, frustrating but that's how it is. I wish it was like it was when I first came on but it's not.
    Municipalities don't give a sh*t about proper coverage. They care about making their residents think they're saving money. Usually that means fire department cuts before other agencies. Cops can complain crime will go up and the teachers have our kids, our defense of "what if" doesn't go over well with the layperson struggling. Municipalities don't mind rolling the dice, it's done all over the country. Is the FDNY the same size as it was 20 years ago? I'm sure some people were upset when cuts were made but did it change anything? Just in the last year alone we are down 225 positions with 2 Districts (Battalions) closed and no body cares. Cynical yes, but at the end of the day people only care if the firehouse in their neighborhood is closed. They don't care if it's in a different area.
    With the way the economy is and the amount of people out of work (and I mean the ones who want to work) how do you think they take it when they read about firemen complaining about doing something trivial?
    All I'm saying is sometimes we have to suck it up and hope the public remembers it when the time comes.

  12. #32
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Foggy California
    Posts
    968

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FHJ718 View Post
    Cynical yes, but at the end of the day people only care if the firehouse in their neighborhood is closed. They don't care if it's in a different area.
    With the way the economy is and the amount of people out of work (and I mean the ones who want to work) how do you think they take it when they read about firemen complaining about doing something trivial?
    All I'm saying is sometimes we have to suck it up and hope the public remembers it when the time comes.
    Yeah, but when the excrement hits the whirlygig, do the citizens point the finger at themselves and go "Gee, we should've said something when the city council wanted to cut the fire department's budget?" No, they'll just scream for your heads on a platter.
    They won't remember, and you'll go under the bus... just sayin.
    My opinions might coincide with someone of importance's POV... I wouldn't know, since I never bothered to ask. My policy is: "Don't ask, don't care."

    IACOJ--West Coast PITA

  13. #33
    MembersZone Subscriber
    Join Date
    May 1999
    Location
    Here, There, Everywhere
    Posts
    4,191

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FHJ718 View Post
    Taking companies OOS for non-firefighting activities is part of the job. I don't like it anymore than you but it's the way it is. My days of getting upset over it are long gone. If my superior gives me a lawful order, I do it.( I just B*tch about it later, not through the press but through my blog ).
    I never liked EMS running but up here it's almost 40% of our running now and EMS here is a separate agency. As we are shrinking they are growing, frustrating but that's how it is. I wish it was like it was when I first came on but it's not.
    Municipalities don't give a sh*t about proper coverage. They care about making their residents think they're saving money. Usually that means fire department cuts before other agencies. Cops can complain crime will go up and the teachers have our kids, our defense of "what if" doesn't go over well with the layperson struggling. Municipalities don't mind rolling the dice, it's done all over the country. Is the FDNY the same size as it was 20 years ago? I'm sure some people were upset when cuts were made but did it change anything? Just in the last year alone we are down 225 positions with 2 Districts (Battalions) closed and no body cares. Cynical yes, but at the end of the day people only care if the firehouse in their neighborhood is closed. They don't care if it's in a different area.
    With the way the economy is and the amount of people out of work (and I mean the ones who want to work) how do you think they take it when they read about firemen complaining about doing something trivial?
    All I'm saying is sometimes we have to suck it up and hope the public remembers it when the time comes.
    You have clearly given up. Around here people have died when companies have been placed OOS...and I can think of three specific events in the past few years just off the top of my head.

    Gravesend, Harlem and Vinegar Hill. Engines, Ladders or both have been contributing factors to deaths in three fires. Community boards around here care and while instant results aren't obtainable...building a case and using the city's actions and words against them takes time and consistant effort. Perhaps in Boston they don't give a care...but around here the vocal residents who do have pull with the pols are deeply concerned with fire companies, hense the protests over brownouts and the refusal to cut 16 companies this past year after they made their voices heard.

    We got an Engine reopened a few years back after a fatal fire where they should have been assigned. The only reason a company should be unavaiable is an emergency, period. What good would an oxygen mask or parachute on an airplane be if it was only able to be used 90% of the time.

    Stretching handlines off the rig takes the company OOS as they are unable to respond properly.

    If you don't push back expect to get run over. There is no excuse to place a company OOS for a silly PR event such as cleaning an elephant....it was front page news and the city got 10,000s of calls expressing dismay at the stupidity. They backed off of their actions and clearly expressed regret (during an election year)...your opinon is not that of the majority...and not shared by our union.

    FTM-PTB

    PS-This was a private company getting taxpayer funded resources for free. They are more than welcome to apply through proper channels and hire a company of men with a spare rig on OT as every other private company is allowed to do...provided the request is approved. As long as they pay the way...it would have never been an issue.
    Last edited by FFFRED; 09-07-2009 at 04:41 PM.

  14. #34
    Forum Member DeputyChiefGonzo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2000
    Location
    Somewhere between genius and insanity!
    Posts
    13,556

    Default

    Posted by FFFred
    PS-This was a private company getting taxpayer funded resources for free. They are more than welcome to apply through proper channels and hire a company of men with a spare rig on OT as every other private company is allowed to do...provided the request is approved. As long as they pay the way...it would have never been an issue.
    They (The Ringling Brothers Barnum and Bailey Circus) could well have afforded to hire a detail to wash the elephant... have you priced tickets to the circus lately?
    Last edited by CaptainGonzo; 09-07-2009 at 04:57 PM.
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

  15. #35
    Forum Member FHJ718's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Boston
    Posts
    174

    Default

    "This was a private company getting taxpayer funded resources for free. They are more than welcome to apply through proper channels and hire a company of men with a spare rig on OT as every other private company is allowed to do...provided the request is approved. As long as they pay the way...it would have never been an issue."
    I agree with you on that, we do it here to. But we have also done stuff while on duty because we're told. I don't like parades but when the order comes down to go I go. Maybe the media there is good to you guys but here we're number 1 on the Hit List.
    I also know of many incidents around here where someone was killed or seriously injured while a fire company was OOS for whatever reason. People were upset and screaming for heads.. Until the next headline came out and they soon forgot. That's not to lessen the families loss, just on how we've become.
    Here, I've heard the same guys who are complaining about the lack of a contract voice their anger at the Fire Department in their own home towns? Complaining about a tax override or whatever else is needed to fund fire department improvements. Such as buying a new rig.
    It might be a "silly" PR event but to someone it was important. We have all participated in dog & pony shows, make the best of it.

  16. #36
    FIREMAN 1st GRADE E40FDNYL35's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 1999
    Location
    Malingering
    Posts
    3,640

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainGonzo View Post
    Posted by FFFred


    They (The Ringling Brothers Barnum and Bailey Circus) could well have afforded to hire a detail to wash the elephant... have you priced tickets to the circus lately?
    we got free-o tickets here at Cowards Cove.......
    ALL GAVE SOME BUT SOME GAVE ALL
    NEVER FORGET 9-11-01
    343
    CAPT. Frank Callahan Ladder 35 *
    LT. John Ginley Engine 40
    FF. Bruce Gary Engine 40
    FF. Jimmy Giberson Ladder 35
    FF. Michael Otten Ladder 35 *
    FF. Steve Mercado Engine 40 *
    FF. Kevin Bracken Engine 40 *
    FF. Vincent Morello Ladder 35
    FF. Michael Roberts Ladder 35 *
    FF. Michael Lynch Engine 40
    FF. Michael Dauria Engine 40

    Charleston 9
    "If my job was easy a cop would be doing it."
    *******************CLICK HERE*****************

  17. #37
    Forum Member DeputyChiefGonzo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2000
    Location
    Somewhere between genius and insanity!
    Posts
    13,556

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by E40FDNYL35 View Post
    we got free-o tickets here at Cowards Cove.......
    I'll bet the Brothers at 245 Engine got nothing... or did they?
    Last edited by CaptainGonzo; 09-07-2009 at 06:08 PM.
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

  18. #38
    FIREMAN 1st GRADE E40FDNYL35's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 1999
    Location
    Malingering
    Posts
    3,640

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainGonzo View Post
    I'll bet the Brothers at 245 Engine got nothing...
    why
    ALL GAVE SOME BUT SOME GAVE ALL
    NEVER FORGET 9-11-01
    343
    CAPT. Frank Callahan Ladder 35 *
    LT. John Ginley Engine 40
    FF. Bruce Gary Engine 40
    FF. Jimmy Giberson Ladder 35
    FF. Michael Otten Ladder 35 *
    FF. Steve Mercado Engine 40 *
    FF. Kevin Bracken Engine 40 *
    FF. Vincent Morello Ladder 35
    FF. Michael Roberts Ladder 35 *
    FF. Michael Lynch Engine 40
    FF. Michael Dauria Engine 40

    Charleston 9
    "If my job was easy a cop would be doing it."
    *******************CLICK HERE*****************

  19. #39
    Forum Member Bones42's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    Pt. Beach, NJ
    Posts
    10,578

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by nyckftbl View Post
    Coverage? What does that mean? youre ok with the 8 minute 2nd due response time so they could wash a f*cking elephant? bad enough we get taken OOS for necessary training, medicals, etc. There is no justification for putting the residents of that neighborhood in jeopardy for a photo op. None. This isnt conjecture, Ive had it happen IN MY FIREHOUSE 3 times in the last few years, where one company was taken OOS and a job came in, putting the lives of civilians and firemen in danger. Multiply that by the 200 or so firehouses, and it happens on a fairly regular basis.

    But you can believe there are smarter people who know what we do in an average 1/2 hour. the evidence proves otherwise.




    The ignorance displayed on this forum on an ever increasing basis in the name of playing devils advocate, attempting to know better than those who actually are from the area/city being discussed, or the chance to make snide remarks about certain large municipal depts is making this forum damn near unreadable.
    You are right. My beliefs that FDNY could handle a 30 minute Out of Service for 1 engine are obviously incorrect. I wish you well.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

  20. #40
    MembersZone Subscriber
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Canuck Expat May be anywhere
    Posts
    2,906

    Default

    Seems to be quite a hullabaloo over nothing here. I think its ridiculous if NYC took an active fire company O/S to wash an elephant. Never the less, it could have been done by using a spare engine or hose and nozzle at existing station. As far as paying people ovetime, WTF? Any municipal fire dept I know of, fire fighters are public servants and they do what their employer requests, within reason. It could have resulted in some good PR for fire dept, no big risk to citizens and good publicity to the fire service in general. Instead it seems to be just another divisive nail driven into FD and City relations.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Ambulance Service Shuts Down!
    By ChiefReason in forum Illinois
    Replies: 36
    Last Post: 09-13-2007, 10:10 AM
  2. Fire Shuts down Mackinac Bridge
    By FireAndy in forum Firefighters Forum
    Replies: 15
    Last Post: 08-18-2005, 07:37 PM
  3. Elephant practical jokes
    By RLFD14 in forum The Off Duty Forums
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 07-20-2005, 02:04 PM
  4. White City blaze shuts down U.S. 1
    By xlonghillfd in forum Florida
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 04-09-2004, 08:23 AM
  5. Fire shuts down Gateway Arch
    By NatchezFD in forum Firefighters Forum
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 07-17-2003, 07:53 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts