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    Default N.Y. firehouse shuts down to wash elephant

    N.Y. firehouse shuts down to wash elephant
    Union says city officials ordered engine company to take photo with Suzie


    NEW YORK - A firefighters union says a New York City engine company had to close its firehouse for 30 minutes to bathe a circus elephant on city orders.

    The Uniformed Firefighters Association says Brooklyn's Engine Company 245 didn't want to participate in the photo opportunity with circus elephant Suzie, part of the Ringling Bros. and Barnum & Bailey show in Coney Island. But it says city officials ordered the engine company to participate.

    The firehouse closed Wednesday while four firefighters and an officer went to scrub Suzie. About 10 firefighters stayed behind.

    The fire department says firefighters were only supposed to spray the elephant when it walked by the firehouse and weren't ordered to close. It says closing the firehouse was a mistake.

    It hasn't said if any emergency calls came in while the firehouse was closed.


    Source: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32681476...ews/?GT1=43001
    Take Care - Stay Safe - God Bless
    Stephen
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    Are you serious?

    Wow, you just can't make this crap up can you.


    When can I bring my pick up truck by for detailing?
    Jason Knecht
    Assistant Chief
    Altoona Fire Dept.
    Altoona, WI

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    I wonder if their nozzles have a massage setting!

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    Maybe next time they can use the FDNY IA dept. To me, IA dept has about as much to do with FF as washing elephants!

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    My comments from Stater911:

    So it's ok to use city equipment for personal use? Where was the animal caretaker's pressure washer to wash the animal? Is it ok to take a cop off the street to guard my house because my door lock doesn't work? Is it ok to take a street crew filling pot holes off the street to work on my driveway? Of course it isn't ok. It takes them off the street and prevents them from doing their job, protecting us!! If your house was on fire and this truck was due to respond and they were busy washing an elephant your views would change.
    Jason Knecht
    Assistant Chief
    Altoona Fire Dept.
    Altoona, WI

    IACOJ - Director of Cheese and Whine
    http://www.cheddarvision.tv/
    EAT CHEESE OR DIE!!

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    The same morons who posted that the brothers at 245 Engine where crybabies and such would be the first to whine, complain, bitch, yell, scream and kvetch that if that happened in their community.

    I posted my comment under the screen name "DaGonz".. it is awaiting approval.
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

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    Did they use Fog or Smooth Bore?

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    This guy is a real winner:

    USMC '68

    What the hell is the big deal?? Wash the damn elephant. Firefighter don't do sh*t anyway. They sit around and wait for a call to come in! Now if cops were doing this, then I'd have a problem with it.

    There are other fire departments around that area that can take care of emergency calls. You think these guys are the only fire dept. around???

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    What if it were YOUR house that caught fire during that 30 minute shutdown?What if it were YOUR Mom or Dad having a heart attack during that 30 minutes when that station could not respond because some self important city official wanted to make good PR with the circus and get pictures of an elephant being bathed by a fire engine?
    Do you think they could have responded in time?
    People think firefighters are always at the station no matter whether it's a volunteer department or a FDNY.
    They expect firefighters to come in like the US Cavalry riding to save the day,not have to stop washing an elephant,reload the hoses they dragged off at the aformentioned puke's order and then get to doing what they are paid for.
    Yes,another station could have been toned out for that call but they would have had to run longer to get there than would be the situation had the station in that district been ready to respond to their calls.

    Quote Originally Posted by WD6956 View Post
    This guy is a real winner:

    USMC '68

    What the hell is the big deal?? Wash the damn elephant. Firefighter don't do sh*t anyway. They sit around and wait for a call to come in! Now if cops were doing this, then I'd have a problem with it.

    There are other fire departments around that area that can take care of emergency calls. You think these guys are the only fire dept. around???

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    Default my response on Statter.

    USMC'68 - You should reserve your comments about things that you obviously know nothing about. Your statement would be the same as me saying that the marines only do things during wartime. Of coarse I am not a mindless jarhead, so I know this is not the case.

    Would you recommend that a group of marines should abandon their posts to wash an elephant in Iraq? If they were not under fire at the time, they weren't doing anything....right?
    RK
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    Management is making sure things are done right. Leadership is doing the right thing. The fire service needs alot more leaders and a lot less managers.

    "Everyone goes home" is the mantra for the pussification of the modern, American fire service.


    Comments made are my own. They do not represent the official position or opinion of the Fire Department or the City for which I am employed. In fact, they are normally exactly the opposite.

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    I think most departments are prone to this nonsense. Granted, we do have to maintain a presence in our communities, but not at the expense of providing adequate fire protection. Sometimes the brass can get carried away with having us do various events, public education demos, station tours, etc., to the detriment of operations.

    I'm not saying that we should do nothing other than sit in quarters and wait for calls, but there has to be a limit to PR.

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    Don't even bother reading people's anonymous complaints on the newspaper sites, about 90% must be unemployed jackasses with nothing better to do than compain about anything and everything.

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    Quote Originally Posted by N2DFire View Post
    The firehouse closed Wednesday while four firefighters and an officer went to scrub Suzie. About 10 firefighters stayed behind.
    Can someone from NYC explain why a firehouse with 15 guys staffing it "closes" when only five guys leave for a detail? Some part of this story is obviously missing.

    I come from a suburban department that emphasizes "customer service" because we realize that people vote. By doing "fluff stuff," people are more likely to support our requests for proper staffing to carry out our real mission -- provide fire & emergency services.

    With this said, my company would have gladly washed the elephant -- while remaining in service. If a call came in during the detail, we would have broken down the line and made the run. No big whoop.

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    Maybe I have a different take on it but I don't see what's the big deal. A little P.R. work is never bad. Is it any different than going to the neighborhood cook-out in the summer and letting the kids see the apparatus up close?
    or participating in a parade?
    In these times of decreasing budgets, company closings and the expectation of doing more with less, any chance we have to put ourselves in a good light with the public helps.
    Far too many of us (at least where I'm from) treat the firehouse like a "fort" located in injun country, and for what? When on duty our job is to provide the public with a service and sometimes that entails doing some things not exactly firefighting in nature.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FHJ718 View Post
    Maybe I have a different take on it but I don't see what's the big deal. A little P.R. work is never bad. Is it any different than going to the neighborhood cook-out in the summer and letting the kids see the apparatus up close?
    or participating in a parade?
    In these times of decreasing budgets, company closings and the expectation of doing more with less, any chance we have to put ourselves in a good light with the public helps.
    Far too many of us (at least where I'm from) treat the firehouse like a "fort" located in injun country, and for what? When on duty our job is to provide the public with a service and sometimes that entails doing some things not exactly firefighting in nature.
    I'm sure you would have a different take on this if Mumbles and Sailorboy ordered your company to do this...
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

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    Every dept needs good PR, but we need to draw a line somewhere. I think using a company of firefighters to wash a circus animal is a little overboard. If depts are that desperate for PR, we might as well go back to getting cats out of trees.

    BTW, maybe we can get the circus to employ the guy in the other thread that invented the "Sky Snake". He can wash the animals.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CrnkB8 View Post
    Every dept needs good PR, but we need to draw a line somewhere. I think using a company of firefighters to wash a circus animal is a little overboard. If depts are that desperate for PR, we might as well go back to getting cats out of trees.

    BTW, maybe we can get the circus to employ the guy in the other thread that invented the "Sky Snake". He can wash the animals.
    He can also do it from a distance so he doesn't get exposed to fecal matter.
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainGonzo View Post
    I'm sure you would have a different take on this if Mumbles and Sailorboy ordered your company to do this...
    I would grin and bear it. Make the best of it and hope someone there appreciated it. Political fighting has no bearing in how you should deal with the public and could help in the publics perception of the job (hopefully).
    30 something years ago (can't remember exactly) the recently retired Chief of Department and a few others helped me fix a flat on my bike. What an impression that made on me and I've never forgotten it.
    It doesn't always work but you never know who you're dealing with and who knows maybe that person will remember the day you helped them like I did.
    As far as the two people mentioned, I was here before them and I'll still be here after them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cozmosis View Post
    Can someone from NYC explain why a firehouse with 15 guys staffing it "closes" when only five guys leave for a detail? Some part of this story is obviously missing.

    I don't know why the house would close but I'll bet the elephant washers were the lowest senior guys in the house.
    IAFF

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    Quote Originally Posted by FHJ718 View Post
    I would grin and bear it. Make the best of it and hope someone there appreciated it. Political fighting has no bearing in how you should deal with the public and could help in the publics perception of the job (hopefully).
    30 something years ago (can't remember exactly) the recently retired Chief of Department and a few others helped me fix a flat on my bike. What an impression that made on me and I've never forgotten it.
    It doesn't always work but you never know who you're dealing with and who knows maybe that person will remember the day you helped them like I did.
    As far as the two people mentioned, I was here before them and I'll still be here after them.
    Fixing a flat on a bike for child or showing up at a neighborhood cookout
    (we all know that the Jakes are there for the food! ) is different than washing schmeg from Jumbo, Dumbo or whatever the elephant's name was.
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainGonzo View Post
    Fixing a flat on a bike for child or showing up at a neighborhood cookout
    (we all know that the Jakes are there for the food! ) is different than washing schmeg from Jumbo, Dumbo or whatever the elephant's name was.
    Clearing a dozen kids from inside or on the engine at a block party takes about as long as it would to break down one section of hose at the elephant wash-down. If administration was asking me to water grass or clean streets of dirt (I know places where both occur regularly)... I'd have a beef. But elephant detail is an obvious feel-good event that's not going to be happening on any reguar basis.

    Obviously NYC is a different place than Maumelle, Ark., but I can tell you that we'd lose more respect from the electorate for protesting this assignment than we would gain by doing it.

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    1/2 an hour? 30 minutes? Somehow, I believe smarter heads are aware of a 30 minute time span in the life of the FDNY.

    How many hours are they out of service for training and such? And doesn't the FDNY have other houses covering during those times? Isn't it possible there was coverage during that 30 minute time period?

    Is this possibly, the Union, making a bigger deal out of this than what it really is?
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    LOL....dont you people have anything else to do besides b*tch about our b*tching?

    When the expected response time of a company is within 4 or 5 minutes, and it now doubles due to the company being taken OOS, moved to the other end of their response area (a semi remote area where 2nd and 3rd due companies have a long response time), it is NOT ok. and comparing this to taking us OOS is incredibly naive. Some of you should be ashamed for even attempting to justify this.


    Kind of curious....had anything gone wrong...from the most mundane of mechanical issues with the rig to :




    How many of you would be singing a different tune?

    Not to mention that in a profession where seconds count (except in Las world) some of you are ok with losing MINUTES of response time to wash a f*cking elephant. Have you all lost your minds?
    Last edited by nyckftbl; 09-07-2009 at 08:34 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bones42 View Post
    1/2 an hour? 30 minutes? Somehow, I believe smarter heads are aware of a 30 minute time span in the life of the FDNY.

    How many hours are they out of service for training and such? And doesn't the FDNY have other houses covering during those times? Isn't it possible there was coverage during that 30 minute time period?

    Is this possibly, the Union, making a bigger deal out of this than what it really is?
    Coverage? What does that mean? youre ok with the 8 minute 2nd due response time so they could wash a f*cking elephant? bad enough we get taken OOS for necessary training, medicals, etc. There is no justification for putting the residents of that neighborhood in jeopardy for a photo op. None. This isnt conjecture, Ive had it happen IN MY FIREHOUSE 3 times in the last few years, where one company was taken OOS and a job came in, putting the lives of civilians and firemen in danger. Multiply that by the 200 or so firehouses, and it happens on a fairly regular basis.

    But you can believe there are smarter people who know what we do in an average 1/2 hour. the evidence proves otherwise.




    The ignorance displayed on this forum on an ever increasing basis in the name of playing devils advocate, attempting to know better than those who actually are from the area/city being discussed, or the chance to make snide remarks about certain large municipal depts is making this forum damn near unreadable.
    Last edited by nyckftbl; 09-07-2009 at 08:46 AM.
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    So what you are saying is firefighters should do nothing but sit around waiting for a box to come in?
    Seriously, how long does it take to hose down an elephant?
    Peoples perception is everything when it comes to public service. When you shop for lunch/dinner are you always near the firehouse?

    We have all had to do things we don't like but when we are on duty it's not our time. The days of hiding behind the doors are long over. More and more cities and towns are looking to cut and let's be honest, when it comes to the Big 3 (Fire, Police, and Teachers) who will be the first to suffer?

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