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  1. #21
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    Don't forget that you can also backdoor your way into CFD (Chicago) by becoming a paramedic for the city. I believe this will get you around the 10 year testing bull****. Also you will have an EMT-P certification as opposed to the EMT-B that CFD gives you. You will have to obtain the EMT-P from an outside program though as they will not hire you without it. This allows you to move to a higher payscale than the EMT-B FF's, and as backwards as this sounds, the EMT-P FF's spend less time on the ambulance (3-5 days per year) than the EMT-B FF's (26 days per year). I don't know why it works this way, but if you want to be more involved with fire, then this is the way to go. Just an FYI


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    Harrynuts,

    You are very correct... I would take that advice... only issue is I dont really like/want to stay in Chicago (or Illinois for that matter)... :P

    Again... ill be honest... EMS is fine and all... i'm enjoying the EMT-B class, but if I didnt need it- I wouldnt do it. Not lazy... not unappreciative... I just want to be a firefighter. NYFD is the closest you can get.. it looks like...

    Im sure things will change... requirements will go up... but at least starting as an EMT and working on that ambulance can only put me in the right direction. Maybe one day ill get that paramedic license... and say suddenly all departments required it... well... if its to attain my dream... so be it.

    On a different note, I have high respect for those who work in the EMS field (whether basic or medic)... toughest job in the world... and probably the most important.

    Ill be working with you guys someday, FDNY!!!

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by harrynuts View Post
    Don't forget that you can also backdoor your way into CFD (Chicago) by becoming a paramedic for the city. I believe this will get you around the 10 year testing bull****. Also you will have an EMT-P certification as opposed to the EMT-B that CFD gives you. You will have to obtain the EMT-P from an outside program though as they will not hire you without it. This allows you to move to a higher payscale than the EMT-B FF's, and as backwards as this sounds, the EMT-P FF's spend less time on the ambulance (3-5 days per year) than the EMT-B FF's (26 days per year). I don't know why it works this way, but if you want to be more involved with fire, then this is the way to go. Just an FYI
    Harrynuts, I was wondering if you could elaborate on this backdoor way into CFD, more information would be great! I have always had an interest in CFD as well as FDNY. CFD is nice because its a rather short drive to my hometown of St. Paul, MN as opposed to FDNY. So family and friends wouldn't be nearly as far away. Also CFD is an amazing department, and no offense blaze, but I love Chicago! Such a clean city with a great history both on CFD as well as in the City itself!
    Any information will help! LINKS WOULD BE GREAT!

    Thanks

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by SPFD17 View Post
    csBlaZe97-

    I know you said in your original post how you are not too fond of EMS work. But may I suggest an option here that might be worth putting up with 2-3 years on FDNY EMS?

    It's known as the Promotion to Firefighter.
    It's also known as a great way to make a lot of enemies in a hurry.
    "Loyalty Above all Else. Except Honor."

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    Quote Originally Posted by FWDbuff View Post
    It's also known as a great way to make a lot of enemies in a hurry.
    Elaborate...

    And SPFD17... No offense taken.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FWDbuff View Post
    It's also known as a great way to make a lot of enemies in a hurry.
    How do you figure?

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    Quote Originally Posted by SPFD17 View Post
    How do you figure?
    Many FDNY have no respect for it because any EMT can score a 70 on the test and will automatically be given preference over anybody that scored higher than them from the open competitive exam.

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    Quote Originally Posted by johhnyboy View Post
    Many FDNY have no respect for it because any EMT can score a 70 on the test and will automatically be given preference over anybody that scored higher than them from the open competitive exam.
    Yeah I've heard that all before, I know a lot of guys that go this route. There's an entire thread on this topic somewhere on here.
    But I figure, if you want the job bad enough, you will do whatever it takes to get on and wont care what people think of you once you get on, hey you got the job didn't you? While others didn't.
    I understand where there coming from, but I just personally believe along with many others that you should do everything possible to get the job if you want it.
    Also, once you get on after using the EMS Promotional, just means you got to prove yourself to the brothers at your firehouse more, which makes you a better fireman.
    Would you rather have a guy who tested the traditional way, and then sat on his *** for 3 years waiting for the phone call? Or someone who knows the city, knows the department, and knows how things work, not to mention fully certified EMT on your crew?

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by SPFD17 View Post
    Yeah I've heard that all before, I know a lot of guys that go this route. There's an entire thread on this topic somewhere on here.
    But I figure, if you want the job bad enough, you will do whatever it takes to get on and wont care what people think of you once you get on, hey you got the job didn't you? While others didn't.
    I understand where there coming from, but I just personally believe along with many others that you should do everything possible to get the job if you want it.
    Also, once you get on after using the EMS Promotional, just means you got to prove yourself to the brothers at your firehouse more, which makes you a better fireman.
    Would you rather have a guy who tested the traditional way, and then sat on his *** for 3 years waiting for the phone call? Or someone who knows the city, knows the department, and knows how things work, not to mention fully certified EMT on your crew?
    i used to somewhat agree with your logic, but its been nearly 3 years since i took the OC and playing the waiting game has definitely been a learning experience for me. study hard and take the open competitive exam and prove you can get a good grade on it. its the only way that's completely fair to everyone. you should read through the other thread that you mentioned and listen to what the guys that are on the job already have to say about it. i can't really talk b/c i'm still a wannabe but definitely read the other thread so you can get a feel for how the back door approach is looked upon.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by SPFD17 View Post
    Yeah I've heard that all before, I know a lot of guys that go this route. There's an entire thread on this topic somewhere on here.
    But I figure, if you want the job bad enough, you will do whatever it takes to get on and wont care what people think of you once you get on, hey you got the job didn't you? While others didn't.
    I understand where there coming from, but I just personally believe along with many others that you should do everything possible to get the job if you want it.
    Also, once you get on after using the EMS Promotional, just means you got to prove yourself to the brothers at your firehouse more, which makes you a better fireman.
    Would you rather have a guy who tested the traditional way, and then sat on his *** for 3 years waiting for the phone call? Or someone who knows the city, knows the department, and knows how things work, not to mention fully certified EMT on your crew?

    Yeah...why have principles and pride in taking the honorable route and look to cut corners and cheat and scam your way through life. Taking the open competitive like a man is for suckers...but not IGM's like you, right?

    I'll take the honest man who has nothing to fear from an open competitive over some lump of ---- in EMS who took the easy route in life.

    Clearly from your comments you know nothing about the FDNY and our department.

    -EMS guys don't "know" the city any better or worse than a garbage man.
    -EMS guys don't "know" the department. They work for EMS...not the FDNY.
    -EMS guys don't "know" how things work.
    -EMS guys once on this job, even if they are a MD are only CFR-D acording to regulations. I could care less about having an EMT on "my crew" (whatever that means) because I'm not assigned to an ambulance and neither are they.

    Stick to opining about whatever suburb of Columbus, Ohio or Seatle or wherever it is you are from. And leave the advice to those of us who actualy have an inkling about what is and isn't involved in OUR job.

    FTM-PTB

    PS-For those in the know, the current format eliminated most of the unsavory advantage in circumvention of the civil service exam, however I'd bet after the Vulcan suit is hashed out...the next exam whenever that is will be largely rebuilt and restructured in terms of scoring (possibly inviting lawsuits from the women who claim to be short changed when the physical is emphasised) How it will be worked out with EMS promo's then is still up in the air like the exam itself.

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by FFFRED View Post
    Yeah...why have principles and pride in taking the honorable route and look to cut corners and cheat and scam your way through life. Taking the open competitive like a man is for suckers...but not IGM's like you, right?

    I'll take the honest man who has nothing to fear from an open competitive over some lump of ---- in EMS who took the easy route in life.

    Clearly from your comments you know nothing about the FDNY and our department.

    -EMS guys don't "know" the city any better or worse than a garbage man.
    -EMS guys don't "know" the department. They work for EMS...not the FDNY.
    -EMS guys don't "know" how things work.
    -EMS guys once on this job, even if they are a MD are only CFR-D acording to regulations. I could care less about having an EMT on "my crew" (whatever that means) because I'm not assigned to an ambulance and neither are they.

    Stick to opining about whatever suburb of Columbus, Ohio or Seatle or wherever it is you are from. And leave the advice to those of us who actualy have an inkling about what is and isn't involved in OUR job.

    FTM-PTB

    PS-For those in the know, the current format eliminated most of the unsavory advantage in circumvention of the civil service exam, however I'd bet after the Vulcan suit is hashed out...the next exam whenever that is will be largely rebuilt and restructured in terms of scoring (possibly inviting lawsuits from the women who claim to be short changed when the physical is emphasised) How it will be worked out with EMS promo's then is still up in the air like the exam itself.
    I respect your opinion FFFRED and I also respect the work you guys do on FDNY greatly. I understand where your coming from, but I don't entirely agree with you. Now, just a thought, have you ever thought that maybe going the tradition route was the "backdoor" way in? The guys who go the traditional route test and then wait for their number, but they guys who use the promotional work towards their hopeful future career as a Fireman by being an EMT, they are putting up with sh*t everyday all day, and getting stepped on by everyone in the City. Maybe the traditional way is the backdoor way? Just changing it up.
    Once again FFFRED, I've seen your numerous posts on this firehouse.com and greatly appreciate your expert opinion. Mine is different, so I would like to talk about it with you, not trying to bash you, your department, or your reputation here, just talking.

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by SPFD17 View Post
    But I figure, if you want the job bad enough, you will do whatever it takes to get on and wont care what people think of you once you get on, hey you got the job didn't you? While others didn't.
    Just giving my opinion here from an outside perspective. If you don't care what the brothers on the job and in your house think of you and don't have their respect and trust...then what's the point?

    And to csblaze - I tested with FDNY in 2007 when I was 18 and scored a 93.XX (can't remember what the last two digits were). I didn't have residency points or vet points(obviously) and my list number is 9155. This is just to put things in perspective for you as the other guys on here have done. Fortunately I've made it far enough to where I'm now waiting for a start date with my other dream department but if you're truly this serious about it - start studying for the exam now and move to the city. The military would also be a huge help, but make sure you do it for the right reasons and not just for the vet points. Hope this helps a bit. Stay safe and good luck.

  13. #33
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    I respect everyones advice and opinions...

    My dream is to get on with FDNY. I want the respect of the people I work with. I truly hope I will not be berated for taking the EMS path. I find the logic and understanding behind EMS-Promotion haters to be false... im sorry.... but whats not fair about me working to get my EMT.... getting my EMT.... moving to New York... working on an ambulance for a while.... signing up for the exam... taking the exam... going the the fire academy.... I dont see any cheating there. Theres nothing backdoor about it. As far as im concerned, ill be proud of it. I think doing that job will open up my eyes to the emergency services as a whole... I think it will make me a better person... a better candidate for the fire service (regardless whether the guys are first responders or paramedics). I truly doubt that EVERY guy on FDNY is going to hate me because I worked on the EMS service prior to... the fact of the matter is, id take the test just like anyone else if I already lived in NY.

    NY EMS gives me the opportunity to go live somewhere I want to live... have my own life... and get me where I want to go. Its like the 20 year old flight instructors at my local flight school... some of those guys suck and are just doing it to get hours so they can get on a regional airline. Some of em want that regional airline job but make their instructing WORTHWHILE. Id be the latter.

    Thats as fair as fair gets... because any other guy who can apply to be a firefighter can apply to work on an ambulance... regardless whether their a 30 year old full-time lawyer or a 19 year old student. The way I see it... this is my dream now... and ill do whatever it takes to get that dream. If the 30 year old lawyer who gets ****ed at me becuase I get on before him for being an EMS guy- sucks for him... im sorry your a lawyer... im sorry you decided this was your dream at this stage in your life...

    In the end, I want to be part of the FDNY brotherhood. I want to be one of the best. I think working with EMS will help me PERSONALLY become on of the best. It may be different for the 30 year old lawyer. He can be the best too... but he has chosen a different path to getting there.

    No hating.... no anger... no frustration... im going to talk to some other FDNY guys to get their opinions on this.

  14. #34
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    Not sure if you've seem the EMT to FF thread but this is it - http://forums.firehouse.com/showthread.php?t=102836

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    Ah... thanks for showing me that...

    Guess ill stay quiet about what ill be doing the next few years... cant say it is EMS... cant say its not...

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    [QUOTE=GFD1FF;1095551]Just giving my opinion here from an outside perspective. If you don't care what the brothers on the job and in your house think of you and don't have their respect and trust...then what's the point?

    I didn't say I didn't care what my brothers in the my house thought of me, I don't care if they dislike me more for going EMS. They say 1 strike for being a Probie, 2 strikes for Probie from EMS, 3 strikes for Probie from NYPD.

    Blaze- Well said. Glad you are fighting for your dream no matter what it takes, it's awesome to see someone with as much motivation towards the job. Good luck, if you have any questions ever, let me know!

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by SPFD17 View Post
    I respect your opinion FFFRED and I also respect the work you guys do on FDNY greatly. I understand where your coming from, but I don't entirely agree with you. Now, just a thought, have you ever thought that maybe going the tradition route was the "backdoor" way in? The guys who go the traditional route test and then wait for their number, but they guys who use the promotional work towards their hopeful future career as a Fireman by being an EMT, they are putting up with sh*t everyday all day, and getting stepped on by everyone in the City. Maybe the traditional way is the backdoor way? Just changing it up.
    Once again FFFRED, I've seen your numerous posts on this firehouse.com and greatly appreciate your expert opinion. Mine is different, so I would like to talk about it with you, not trying to bash you, your department, or your reputation here, just talking.
    What do you know about civil service and merit and fitness standards?

    Are you honestly attempting to portray the unbiased, objective civil service standards...essentialy the way our hiring and promotions have been handled for over a century is the "backdoor"? The open competitive is the only legitimate means to obtain employment with us...the other attempts such as the promotional and the cadet program have been nothing but thinly vieled attempts at gaming the civil service system in favor of a certain political constituancy...namely minorities who want a workfare program and racial spoils system

    Anyone like yourself who thinks otherwise is either being willfully naive and ignorant or has a hidden adgenda.

    Go ahead and cheat in school, and in life and then on obtaining civil service employment...see where it gets you and what message it sends to others about you, your family, your upbringing and the message you send to your kids, god forbid a slacker like you should knock up some unexpecting co-ed and ruin her life.

    Everything to you kids is negoitable and everything is subject to some bizzare moral equivilancy that makes everything ok as long as you benefit from it.

    Do us a favor and get back to us when you are an adult and have the first clue about our job.

    FTM-PTB

    PS- Why is taking employment in a health care field such as an EMT considered working towards employment in a blue collar labor intensive job.

    In a related story I'm preparing for my future career as a book-keeper by working as a bricklayer!

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by csBlaZe97 View Post
    I respect everyones advice and opinions...

    My dream is to get on with FDNY. I want the respect of the people I work with. I truly hope I will not be berated for taking the EMS path. I find the logic and understanding behind EMS-Promotion haters to be false... im sorry.... but whats not fair about me working to get my EMT.... getting my EMT.... moving to New York... working on an ambulance for a while.... signing up for the exam... taking the exam... going the the fire academy.... I dont see any cheating there. Theres nothing backdoor about it. As far as im concerned, ill be proud of it. I think doing that job will open up my eyes to the emergency services as a whole... I think it will make me a better person... a better candidate for the fire service (regardless whether the guys are first responders or paramedics). I truly doubt that EVERY guy on FDNY is going to hate me because I worked on the EMS service prior to... the fact of the matter is, id take the test just like anyone else if I already lived in NY.

    NY EMS gives me the opportunity to go live somewhere I want to live... have my own life... and get me where I want to go. Its like the 20 year old flight instructors at my local flight school... some of those guys suck and are just doing it to get hours so they can get on a regional airline. Some of em want that regional airline job but make their instructing WORTHWHILE. Id be the latter.

    Thats as fair as fair gets... because any other guy who can apply to be a firefighter can apply to work on an ambulance... regardless whether their a 30 year old full-time lawyer or a 19 year old student. The way I see it... this is my dream now... and ill do whatever it takes to get that dream. If the 30 year old lawyer who gets ****ed at me becuase I get on before him for being an EMS guy- sucks for him... im sorry your a lawyer... im sorry you decided this was your dream at this stage in your life...

    In the end, I want to be part of the FDNY brotherhood. I want to be one of the best. I think working with EMS will help me PERSONALLY become on of the best. It may be different for the 30 year old lawyer. He can be the best too... but he has chosen a different path to getting there.

    No hating.... no anger... no frustration... im going to talk to some other FDNY guys to get their opinions on this.


    Your comments show you will likely never be an asset to this job because you through your own words demonstrate that YOU are thinking ONLY about YOU.

    That is the problem that you children don't seem to get... It isn't about YOU....this job isn't about the individual.

    No self-respect, no pride, no courage to take the open competitive...always looking for the easy route, something to game the system. It continues to speak volumes for those who atttempt to justify it in their circular convoluted and misguided logic.

    I'm not going to continue to waste my breath as it is clear few if any of you have the maturity and life-experience to grasp what most guys on this job have been trying to communicate for ever on this topic. We've seen it a million times before...just as in your final comment...you are going to ask around (presumably until you get the answer you want to hear.)

    FTM-PTB

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    Fred...

    Ive seen you rip on plenty of people on these forums... its sad.

    "Your comments show you will likely never be an asset to this job because you through your own words demonstrate that YOU are thinking ONLY about YOU." Sounds like your talking about yourself. Shocker, but you were thinking about yourself to some extent when you went in to take the open competitive exam and took the job.

    For all I know you are a book keeper....

    Peace. For all those who gave me their humble opinions with no disrespect.... I am in full appreciation. I must now embark on the path that helps me achieve my goal of becoming an FDNY fireman. As soon as I walk into the fire academy I will check all previous jobs, experience, and selfish preconceptions at the door... and will walk in with a humble visage and an eagerness to learn- so that I may effectively carry out the duties and responsibilities of the New York Fireman if I am chosen as such.

    For now there is no time to waste... I must focus on what needs to be done.

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    Quote Originally Posted by csBlaZe97 View Post
    Fred...

    Peace. For all those who gave me their humble opinions with no disrespect.... I am in full appreciation. I must now embark on the path that helps me achieve my goal of becoming an FDNY fireman. As soon as I walk into the fire academy I will check all previous jobs, experience, and selfish preconceptions at the door... and will walk in with a humble visage and an eagerness to learn- so that I may effectively carry out the duties and responsibilities of the New York Fireman if I am chosen as such.

    For now there is no time to waste... I must focus on what needs to be done.
    Glad to hear it csBlaZe97, that's the attitude you need to have. That no matter where you came from, who or what you know, how you got the job, where you scored on the list, etc. you drop it all at the Academy doors and you are now a low-life Probie who doesn't know anything and needs to be re-taught all that he knows.
    That's the thing, I've emailed back and forth with a couple of FDNY EMT's who promoted to FDNY Fire within the last 2-4 years and they say THE ONLY PROBLEM they have with EMT's that use the promotion is WHEN THEY GET THE ONES that come into the firehouse thinking they are above Probie level and don't deserve to be treated like sh*t because they did some years on FDNY EMS. NO. This is not what you want to do, but you knew that your smart.
    They both said, and I quote, "as long as you don't come into the firehouse with the attitude that you don't deserve to be a Probie because you did EMS, you will be fine. Come in like every other Probie and learn everything your taught and nothing less. If you act like any other Probie on any other department" they said "90% of the guys won't even acknowledge the fact you came from EMS."
    So take that into fact csBlaZe96! Good luck, see ya around!
    Last edited by SPFD17; 09-13-2009 at 03:08 PM.

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