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  1. #1
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    Default Replacement Cutter

    We have been running Amkus tools on several apparatus for years with pretty good luck. A few years ago we wanted a stronger cutter and purchased a Hurst Centar to use with our Amkus tools. One of the cutter blades broke on an extrication and it is pretty expensive to replace the blades. We are looking at replacing the cutter with one that will handle the new metals.

    Does anyone know what the minimum cutting strength needed for the new metals is. I know different tools rate the cutting force differently but I need to know where to start in looking at tools. We will look at the new Amkus cutter but will also look at Genesis and Holmatro to ger a bigger cut.

    Thanks for the input.


  2. #2
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    Most of the training classes I have been to as of late are saying at least 200,000 lbs of cut force for the new steels. That being said, Genesis, Amkus and Holmatro all have this size tool. I think Holmatro has the largest opening with the 4055NCT II, at 8 5/8", at least that is what I recall from touring at the FRI conference.

    Good luck shopping!

  3. #3
    Forum Member Rescue101's Avatar
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    I THINK ResQtek has them beat.If I remember correctly,the 6S cutter has an opening of 11 and change. Don't have the product catalog in front of me,The Beast tool also has a pretty wide spread. T.C.
    Last edited by Rescue101; 09-17-2009 at 03:36 PM.

  4. #4
    Forum Member MetalMedic's Avatar
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    No, I am not a salesman, but I have used this tool and I think you should at least take a look at it if you are wanting to deal with shear numbers (to make shear cuts). The Champion B.E.A.S.T. has a cutter opening of 11 inches and a cutting force of 373,000 pounds, and you get a spreader attachment to go along with your cutter. I'm still happy with low pressure systems, but if you are comparing brands, this tool is worth a once over.
    Richard Nester
    Orrville (OH) Fire Dept.

    "People don't care what you know... until they know that you care." - Scott Bolleter

  5. #5
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    One item we are looking at also is depth off cut, not just how wide a cut. With smaller cutters on the rear post of some vehicles you will have to make up to three cuts. Our Centar cutter got that down to two easy cuts.

  6. #6
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    Chief I think you are on the money. I am not a salesman either. But I should have been more specific when I was talking about what I saw at FRI. I could be wrong but I believe the 4055 had the deepest cut, of Amkus Genesis Holmatro comparison. The guy in booth said that was the reason behind the design. It does not have much more power than the Holmatro 4050 we have, but a deeper cut for the bigger B and C posts.

    I am not too sure about Champion or resqtech, I spent most of my time in the mainstream manufacturers booths, I did not see a champion booth there, but might have been. I still can't grasp the strategies of companies that try and maintain that a tool will have the same capabilities with either low or high pressure pumps, that is a physical impossibility. It leads me to believe they may like to mislead or misdirect the less educated customers with by "not quite telling the whole truth".

  7. #7
    Forum Member Rescue101's Avatar
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    IF I understand what I think I know correctly, it's EASY to make a dual pressure tool.To oversimplify,it's basically a 5000# tool that sheds(relieves)the excess back to the pump when used on a 10,000# system.It' a bit more complex than that but it makes the principal easier to understand.Since when is Resqtek not a mainstream tool ? They've been around for YEARS. T.C.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rescue101 View Post
    IF I understand what I think I know correctly, it's EASY to make a dual pressure tool.To oversimplify,it's basically a 5000# tool that sheds(relieves)the excess back to the pump when used on a 10,000# system.It' a bit more complex than that but it makes the principal easier to understand.Since when is Resqtek not a mainstream tool ? They've been around for YEARS. T.C.
    Probably because no one buys them?

  9. #9
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    Wink

    Quote Originally Posted by MetalMedic View Post
    No, I am not a salesman, but I have used this tool and I think you should at least take a look at it if you are wanting to deal with shear numbers (to make shear cuts). The Champion B.E.A.S.T. has a cutter opening of 11 inches and a cutting force of 373,000 pounds, and you get a spreader attachment to go along with your cutter. I'm still happy with low pressure systems, but if you are comparing brands, this tool is worth a once over.
    The cutting force of 373,000lbs sure sounds impressive, but considering it is about 143,000lbs higher than all of the other "recognized" manufacturers that actually pay engineers to design their equipment, do you think that number could be fabricated? I would be more interested in what the BEAST's NFPA Cutter Level Rating is- that may unveil their overinflated "cutting force" number

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    Quote Originally Posted by laddercompany20 View Post
    The cutting force of 373,000lbs sure sounds impressive, but considering it is about 143,000lbs higher than all of the other "recognized" manufacturers that actually pay engineers to design their equipment, do you think that number could be fabricated? I would be more interested in what the BEAST's NFPA Cutter Level Rating is- that may unveil their overinflated "cutting force" number
    Recognized??? I know of 2 "recognized" low pressure tool makers that are all boasting cutting pressures of at or near 300K psi.

    Phoenix at 302k
    TNT's BFC Low Pressure at 295k

  11. #11
    MembersZone Subscriber Halligan84's Avatar
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    We use Hurst and have the MOC and MOC II. Both have the same power head but blade geometry makes a big difference. The parrot blade cutter opens wider, but the field performance is far worse than the smaller of the 2. Hurst also makes another MOC with even higher performance, however even the sales guys say it is very specialized and the smaller blades result in a performance drop on the stuff we cut all the time. Bring them all out and test them.

  12. #12
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    When comparing cutting force measurements, keep in mind to check where the mfg is measuring that force. Some may measure at the tips, some at the base, and some at the pin where the blades connect to the cylinder. If you're going to compare, get them side-by-side. Most dealers should be more than happy to let you play with their tool for comparisons.

    Personally, I'd rather cut around these exotic metals if at all possible. Something about applying 300K lbs of force makes me uneasy, especially knowing that when something gives, that stored energy has to go somewhere. It may not always be where we expect (such as with your broken blade).

  13. #13
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    You have Amkus, just get the 22 and be done with it. It has a force over 200,000 so for today it will cut what is out there

  14. #14
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    I speced out the hydraulic tools for our new Heavy Rescue and I compared TNT, Hurst and Amkus on strength and weight on several models. We chose to go with TNT. Their heavy duty cutters can cut 320,000lbs, while Hurst's High Pressure can cut 236,000lbs and Amkus @ 283,000lbs. TNT's cutters are the 2nd strongest that I found on the market, with the Champion Beast being the 1st. TNT's opening was also the largest compared to the other 2 as well.

    Anything that can cut over 200,000lbs should work well for you, and to 2nd what ADSNWFLD said, just get the Amkus 22's since you already have that system.

    Hope this helps.
    Last edited by jeremymader; 11-28-2009 at 09:02 PM.

  15. #15
    Forum Member Rescue101's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by laddercompany20 View Post
    Probably because no one buys them?
    Might want to look around. They're in a lot more countries than some of the "top" names here. Good tools. T.C.

  16. #16
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    After research we decided to stay with the new Amkus cutter. It on the rescue now and looks like it will do what we need for now. Thanks for all the reply's.

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