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  1. #201
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    So if the call dispatchers aren't in your union why do you care who gives you the call? Either way they are outsiders.
    Because they may not ask the correct questions to send the proper response to the situation being reported.

    I would like the correct resources being sent versus having to play catch up from the beginning.

    As for being "lucky" to be a career firefighter....

    Luck had nothing to do with it. I worked my *** off to get the job and every advancement since then. No one walked up to me and said "How would you like to be a career firefighter?" and I didn't win the job in a lottery. I was better qualified than 1,200 other applicants for the position. I out performed them in the written testing, physical agility and oral interview board. Just like some recent college graduate in India will have your job soon.


  2. #202
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    And it shouldn't take a rocket scientist to go back, get the tapes, and use the same measurement. There is no doubt if I eliminate the call transfer step and eliminate having to ask the caller twice what their emergency is that response times will improve. It sounds like what we have here is poor training of dispatchers.
    Well I guess you missed my post since you responded to everyones BUT mine so I will just say it ALL once again!!!!

    Why must you make them provide you with the fact even though VinnieB did just that with a incident from TODAY!!! Also why cant you get the so called facts ? why cant you call up city hall or who ever it is you want to get the facts from ? Why don't you show some initiative for once and do things for yourself instead of wanting others to do it for you.

    On another note I doubt it takes 10seconds sorry you fail again.

    Stop being the know it all and grow up. In every post (which is well over 5000 a new record for the speed) you have ever made its utter bs. You have no personal skills and want to attack people even though your not worth a penny. You don't listen to what anybody has to say, you are like people who only want to believe themselves and no one else even if they are right. No one is ever right all the time this includes you dumb ***!!!

    Listen up, READ this right. YOU ARE NOT ALWAYS RIGHT , YOU DO NOT KNOW EVERYTHING

    SO STFU ALREADY

  3. #203
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    I am quite interested in this topic so I did some research on the way it is set up in several large Canadian cities. Ours is a totally integrated dispatch serving Fire, Police and EMS.There are actually 2 response times recorded and kept. This first clock starts the moment the dispatcher answers, it is completely recorded and interestingly, there is a real time printed tape at the dispatch desk printed out, similar to ticker tape. The dispatcher ascertains the information and dispatches to the appropriate authority, i.e. FD. They have a computer screen which has already pinpointed the call either through Telus or through mobile tower. He/She will dispatch the closest fire resources, number depending on the report. Our dispatchers are pretty well trained, many move on up to FD, Police or EMS after spending some time on 911 desk. Its totally separate from all other agencies. Response time for Fire Trucks is calculated and recorded from the time the dispatcher puts the alarm through. Can it go wrong? Sure if the caller transposes St and Ave, but usually the dispatch will catch it on the screen. According to a couple of friends, response time from receiving alarm at station to scene is from 3 1/2 to 4 1/2 minutes. Could it work in NYC. I guess only those involved could answer that. The system they have seems to be at a critical stage and sounds like its costing lives already.

  4. #204
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    Quote Originally Posted by eaglesrule1024 View Post
    Well I guess you missed my post since you responded to everyones BUT mine so I will just say it ALL once again!!!!
    Nope didn't miss it, just didn't think it was worth the time.

    Why must you make them provide you with the fact even though VinnieB did just that with a incident from TODAY!!! Also why cant you get the so called facts ? why cant you call up city hall or who ever it is you want to get the facts from ? Why don't you show some initiative for once and do things for yourself instead of wanting others to do it for you.
    When one makes a claim or statement it is up to them to back it up. We already have data that contradicts their claim.

    On another note I doubt it takes 10seconds sorry you fail again.
    OK it really takes 11 seconds.

    Stop being the know it all and grow up. In every post (which is well over 5000 a new record for the speed) you have ever made its utter bs. You have no personal skills and want to attack people even though your not worth a penny. You don't listen to what anybody has to say, you are like people who only want to believe themselves and no one else even if they are right. No one is ever right all the time this includes you dumb ***!!!

    Listen up, READ this right. YOU ARE NOT ALWAYS RIGHT , YOU DO NOT KNOW EVERYTHING

    SO STFU ALREADY
    Keep practicing, maybe someday you will be able to read and write that fast too.
    Listen up, READ this right. YOU ARE NOT ALWAYS RIGHT , YOU DO NOT KNOW EVERYTHING - Never said I did, prove me wrong with facts, not innuendo.

  5. #205
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    Nope didn't miss it, just didn't think it was worth the time.



    When one makes a claim or statement it is up to them to back it up. We already have data that contradicts their claim.
    And what data have you provided? Not a damn thing. I guess the members of my job, our Union, and the media have all the wrong data.....Maybe you can help us out with your vast knowledge and insight on the subject of emergency response in NYC? Yet again....you prove how much of a tool you are.
    IACOJ Member

  6. #206
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    Quote Originally Posted by VinnieB View Post
    And what data have you provided? Not a damn thing. I guess the members of my job, our Union, and the media have all the wrong data.....Maybe you can help us out with your vast knowledge and insight on the subject of emergency response in NYC? Yet again....you prove how much of a tool you are.
    Vinnie,
    I would just call it a day on this one. The brick wall is making your head hurt. Really do you think you are going to convince him he is wrong? He ignores (or tells people they arent worth his time) any evidence that is contrary to his posts. Dont argue with idiots they drag you down to their level and beat you with experience. Stubborn idiots are even worse.
    Shawn M. Cecula
    Firefighter
    IACOJ Division of Fire and EMS

  7. #207
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    When one makes a claim or statement it is up to them to back it up. We already have data that contradicts their claim.
    What data is that?

    Never said I did, prove me wrong with facts, not innuendo.
    How about you prove you are right with facts, not innuendo, opinion and speculation?

  8. #208
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    And it shouldn't take a rocket scientist to go back, get the tapes, and use the same measurement. There is no doubt if I eliminate the call transfer step and eliminate having to ask the caller twice what their emergency is that response times will improve.
    Sure if you eliminate a step, response times will improve. And if you start the response time clock after you've eliminated that step and taken the next one, response times will improve even more.

    Oh yeah, that's what the city did. No wonder the response times are better.

    It sounds like what we have here is poor training of dispatchers.
    Yes, I'd definately agree that's part of the problem.

  9. #209
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    Its not a big deal really. The city provided facts and figures showing a reduced response time. The Union provided.............

  10. #210
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    Its not a big deal really. The city provided facts and figures showing a reduced response time. The Union provided.............
    ...........a rebuttal showing that the city is not using the same criteria as in the past to assess response time, therefore the claim of reduced response times is invalid.

  11. #211
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    Its not a big deal really. The city provided facts and figures showing a reduced response time. The Union provided the reason for the reduced times: a change in how the times are actually measured, with the clock now starting only after the call has been sent to the responding stations and all but eliminating all the call taking and transferring times.
    There I finished it for you.

  12. #212
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    I'm curious: what was the system before the current one?

    from what I read, currently a UCT answers the phone (which appears to be a police calltaker), an then transfers the call to fire or EMS depending on who the call pertains to.

    prior to this, what happened? when someone called 911, didn't a call taker receive EVERY call, and then transfer to the appropriate dispatch center? or was something else done?
    If my basic HazMat training has taught me nothing else, it's that if you see a glowing green monkey running away from something, follow that monkey!

    FF/EMT/DBP

  13. #213
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    I hate unions and paid firemen. Partly due to jealousy and partly due to my belief that intelligence can be shown only by disagreeing with things.
    I have a magic spatula. It is an oracle.
    Logic and proportion have fallen sloppy dead.

  14. #214
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrParasite View Post
    I'm curious: what was the system before the current one?

    from what I read, currently a UCT answers the phone (which appears to be a police calltaker), an then transfers the call to fire or EMS depending on who the call pertains to.

    prior to this, what happened? when someone called 911, didn't a call taker receive EVERY call, and then transfer to the appropriate dispatch center? or was something else done?
    The PD 911 call taker would determine what the call was for and transfer it to the EMS or FD call takers who are trained in gleening info for their specific dept needs, EMS still has their call takers, PD still has their call takers...why are FD needs not as important? $$$ thats why.

    PD call takers are illiterate (based on their spelling and ability to communicate as witnessed by the garbage masquerading as the english language on our response tickets) and they don't understand the information we need to do our jobs properly...and the only people who are suffering is us and the civilians (one of whom is now DEAD.).

    Any one who claims this is a dispatching training issue, clearly doesn't know the first thing about it...as it is all about "call takers" (garbage in) not the "dispatchers" -(garbage out).

    FTM-PTB

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    NYC's mismanaged plan to upgrade emergency system 2 years late, $700M over budget
    Juan Gonzalez - News

    Wednesday, October 21st 2009, 4:00 AM



    Xanthos for News
    EMS operators, who were to move into 11 MetroTech in March, have not done so because of bugs in Verizon's phone system, Skyler said.

    Mayor Bloomberg's $1.3 billion plan to modernize the city's 911 system is two years late, plagued by poor management and bad equipment, and has ballooned in cost to more than $2 billion, the Daily News has learned.

    Launched in the summer of 2005, the Emergency Communications Transformation Project was supposed to centralize call-and-dispatch operations for police, fire and emergency medical services into a single state-of-the-art computerized system.

    Deputy Mayor Ed Skyler, who oversees the project, has called it one of the Bloomberg administration's top initiatives.

    "We are taking the city's archaic 911 system into the 21st century," Skyler said.

    But a host of problems dogged the project from the start - none of which s have been publicly acknowledged. Among them:


    Renovation of a single floor at 11 MetroTech in downtown Brooklyn, primary location of the new 911 operation, skyrocketed from $80 million to $166 million.

    Construction and outfitting of a second 911 center in the Bronx doubled to $1 billion. The site, to be done by 2013, will be the city's backup emergency communications center in case the Brooklyn site is destroyed. City Hall kept the price down by scrapping floors earmarked for a second emergency center.

    NYPD operators, who were to move into the Brooklyn 911 center March 1, 2008, will not relocate there until next March, Skyler said. That's because subcontractor Motorola failed to give the NYPD an adequate computer software dispatch system. The city recouped $32 million from that and got another vendor.

    EMS operators, who were to move into 11 MetroTech in March, have not done so because of bugs in Verizon's phone system, Skyler said.
    Only fire dispatchers from Brooklyn, Staten Island and Manhattan have relocated into the new 911 center.

    "Each of the agencies - fire, police and EMS - keeps resisting the merger and making new demands," said a city official who has been on the project for years.

    Because of historic conflicts between the three departments, City Hall gave the projects to the techies at the Department of Information Technology and Telecommunications.

    DoITT's commissioner at the time, Gino Menchini, gave Hewlett-Packard a $380 million contract to oversee a consortium of vendors that would design and erect the new system. Those vendors included Northrop Grumman, Verizon and Motorola.

    Within months, virtually every aspect of the project was experiencing delays. Costs started to mushroom, with scores of computer consultants coming on board, many at annual salaries of $300,000 to $500,000.

    Things fell so far behind schedule the city asked its quality control consultant, Gartner Group, to find out what was happening.

    Gartner's report, issued to top officials in March 2007, said the city was "losing $2 million a month," from mismanagement.

    It called the ballooning costs of a new "logging and recording system" for the NYPD "ludicrous."

    A few weeks later, DoITT Commissioner Paul Cosgrave urged Skyler in a secret memo to dump Hewlett-Packard.

    "DoITT has recommended and our partners at NYPD and FDNY have concurred that we should put the ECTP contract up for rebid," Cosgrave wrote.

    In an April 13, 2007, memo, Skyler overruled Cosgrave and ordered that all major components of the project be completed or underway "by the end of 2009," which happened to be the end of Bloomberg's second term in office. That was before the mayor decided to overturn term limits and run again.

    "Achieving these goals will make it very difficult for a future administration to cancel this project and, conversely, not achieving them will put this vital public-safety initiative at risk," Skyler wrote.

    "NYPD will move into the new [Public Safety Answering Center] 1 by March 1, 2008," Skyler wrote. "FDNY and EMS will move in by March 1, 2009," and he ordered groundbreaking on the Bronx site by July 1, 2009.

    Of all deadlines, only the Fire Department has even come close.

    "There have been challenges that we've overcome," Skyler said. "It's an ambitious project. We are trying to bring together the different demands or requirements from agencies that never worked together in this area.

    "Would we like it to be faster and less expensive? Yes, but we are making progress."

    jgonzalez@nydailynews.com

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  17. #217
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    I have a crazy idea ......

    Since EMS is a function of the FDNY, why not simply train the EMS dispatchers into fire/EMS dispatchers since FDNY is wholly responsible for both functions.

    It just seems pointless to have have separate EMS and fire dispatchers when both services are handled by the same agency.

    After all, that is how most cities who's fire department runs EMS handles this issue. Maybe the guys in FDNY just hate to admit that they are the EMS agency too.

    Again, this is a training issue. Develop protocols, Train the EMS dispatchers to handle fire. It's really not that tough.

    This seems more about turf than anything else.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    I have a crazy idea ......

    Since EMS is a function of the FDNY, why not simply train the EMS dispatchers into fire/EMS dispatchers since FDNY is wholly responsible for both functions.

    It just seems pointless to have have separate EMS and fire dispatchers when both services are handled by the same agency.

    After all, that is how most cities who's fire department runs EMS handles this issue. Maybe the guys in FDNY just hate to admit that they are the EMS agency too.

    Again, this is a training issue. Develop protocols, Train the EMS dispatchers to handle fire. It's really not that tough.

    This seems more about turf than anything else.
    Different CADS, Different protocols, Different freq's, Different unions. Different needs, different systems...etc.

    Your simpletons analysis is based on your thought that it is based in some anti-ems bias that drives decisions throughout our bureacracy. Care to expand on how you would accomplish this?...if it really isn't that tough...give us the executive summary version.

    FTM-PTB

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    FFred ..

    Most other major cities get by without fire only call takers.

    This isn't my problem, but it sounds like training is the solution.

    Yes, I am simpleton.

    There simply does not need to be separate fire, police and EMS call takers. FDNY is fire and EMS so there is no reason why FDNY dispatchers shouldn't handle fire and EMS calls.

    It's done by tens of thousands of dispatchers in thousands of places every day. Really, it's not that unique and not that tough a skill to train.
    Last edited by LaFireEducator; 10-21-2009 at 08:29 AM.

  20. #220
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    FFred ..

    Most other major cities get by without fire only call takers.

    This isn't my problem, but it sounds like training is the solution.

    Yes, I am simpleton.

    There simply does not need to be separate fire, police and EMS call takers. FDNY is fire and EMS so there is no reason why FDNY dispatchers shouldn't handle fire and EMS calls.

    It's done by tens of thousands of dispatchers in thousands of places every day. Really, it's not that unique and not that tough a skill to train.
    So you don't care to address any of these issues specifically?
    • Different CADS
    • Different protocols
    • Different freq's
    • Different unions
    • Different needs
    • Different systems

    How would you intergrate EMS into the current fire alarm dispatchers arangement?

    If it is as simple as you think, explain how you would address the above issues.

    FTM-PTB

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