1. #51
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    ok lets break it down why this is a problem.

    3 and 2 response with a battalion dispatched to for the hell of it 10 broadway.

    Ok because it wasnt clarified which borough before they sent it out you now have a 3 and 2 with a battalion sent out in Manhattan, Queens, Brooklyn and Staten Island.

    You Now have 4 boroughs without protection in areas.

    For your benefit I will help you out with the math too that's 12 engines 8 trucks and 4 battalions are out on a call.

    Bam! call comes in with people trapped in one of the first due responses of a engine or truck where they are housed.

    But guess what you can't respond due to the fact that your on this Bogus call that wasn't verified by the call taker.

    Now the fire in one of the engines or trucks first due is a real fire 6 people die because the UCT phucked up big time and the next available unit was 8-10mins or maybe more from the location.

    What is your answer to this now ? I mean come on are you that stupid that you are going to try and argue this?

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    In reading these posts it really seems like the City/Mayor have taken to just ignoring the true root of the problem for political gain and later budget cuts. Everyone is facing a tough budget battle no matter what city or town you are in but this city has more people in one borough than some states in the US!

    In moving to a combined center you can achieve some improvements IF it is handled correctly from a public safety point of view. But most of these politicians are not looking at it from that perspective they are looking at it from a "How much can we cut if we do this?" perspective. To have a general call taker position handling all PS agencies then those people need to be trained for what they are dealing with, plain and simple. If the city administration is ignoring it because it does not meet their agenda to acknowledge it you are up a creek without a paddle. I have some idea of the city council/borough system in NYC so I cant really comment on how to address it locally but it seems that it needs to be brought out to the politicos and thru that to the residents and news media, if it hasnt been already.

    It seems that by having all your eggs in one baskett will only invite trouble in this particular situation. Spreading out the operation will allow the other call centers/dispatch centers to pick up the slack if one goes OOS for some reason. In a city like NY with all the attention it gets from every place in the world it seems having an understanding of that and realizing that this place is a giant target no matter how you look at it, why would you put yourself in a position endangering your PS and response operations???

    I had been in the fire service as a volunteer FF and later Company Officer for 20 years and working as a 911 Dispatcher/Call Taker in two cities consolidated dispatch centers with my current employ of 13 years. My center is in a city of about 50,000 with about 55,000 CFS. Never compare to the city in the discussion but it does give me a perspective on what is needed to do the job properly including the training required. What we see everyday can be multiplied by like 200x to even get close to the FDNY/NYPD/EMS requirements there but the basics are the same, just more of them in the big places. Failing to realize that or in this case, ignoring that, is just plain dangerous. If I or my coworkers made the same mistakes that have been described here we would at least be looking at some unpaid vacations maybe even termination. It just is not acceptable, and dangerous. Hopefully the FDNY can get it addressed to solve the problem.

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    If you are responding you should be smart enough to ask for a clarification of where you are going. We have two intersection in our town where the two roads intersect in two different places. We also have a situation where someone put in a private road that has the same name as a town road. We also have a bay with campsites on both sides of the bay. Both with the same name.
    And for 10 extra points.....

    What is the name of the horse in this town.
    Psychiatrists state 1 in 4 people has a mental illness.
    Look at three of your friends, if they are ok, your it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    If you are responding you should be smart enough to ask for a clarification of where you are going. We have two intersection in our town where the two roads intersect in two different places. We also have a situation where someone put in a private road that has the same name as a town road. We also have a bay with campsites on both sides of the bay. Both with the same name.

    But if your dispatch is getting the wrong address then that is a training issue for dispatch.
    If I understand it correctly Crow, thats one of the big problems, FD dispatch isn't talking to the caller direct but relying on info taken through the Central dispatch. I think if they get to the address and theres nothing there, they waste a lot of time trying to get the proper address from central. I can't really compare it as our 2 biggest cities have a bit more than a million pop each and the rest are under 100,000. Sounds like the biggest problem is incompetent, under trained or dyslexic dispatch

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    Sounds like two issues here. First there seems to be a problem in the dispatch center if they aren't confirming the address. We have been sent out and have had to get clarification. The sooner you are on the road the better. Sounds like your dispatch center isn't following up and getting all of the information. There is nothing wrong with being on the road and getting additional or more information.
    Shut up. Really. Just shut the fcuk up.
    Are you a dispatcher?
    Do you know how to dispatch?
    It's not just, "911 what is your emergency?" and pushing buttons.
    The liability that these buffoons that call them selves call takers are incurring on themselves by improperly gathering information is staggering.
    The gov't is only free from being sued if the actions taken are considered reasonable, and others who are in similar postions would take the same action.

    If you confirm address, the problem, THEN send units out, its one thing. But just getting info, probably just off the ANI/ALI screen, not confirming, and dispatching, is boarderline criminal.

    Heres an example for you, to show you, since I know it takes a lot to engage your peabrain.

    Mrs. Smith lives at 123 4th ave, in the Bronx (I know thats not a real address, bear with me).
    She moves to 495 southwest ave, in Manhattan, and her phone company, being lazy, does not update the info that is sent to the 911 call takers ANI/ALI screen.
    The POS call taker goes with the info off the screen, and a full structural assignment is sent to the wrong friggin borough.

    So, tell me again wise guy, good idea, or bad?

    To my FDNY Brothers, good luck. Really.

    And should that fail, I'm sure once the economy recovers in Fla, you could look for a job there.
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  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlyingKiwi View Post
    And for 10 extra points.....

    What is the name of the horse in this town.
    I dont know the name of the horse, but I can name the horse's ***!!!
    "Loyalty Above all Else. Except Honor."

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    If you are responding you should be smart enough to ask for a clarification of where you are going. We have two intersection in our town where the two roads intersect in two different places. We also have a situation where someone put in a private road that has the same name as a town road. We also have a bay with campsites on both sides of the bay. Both with the same name.

    But if your dispatch is getting the wrong address then that is a training issue for dispatch.
    What's your point? I have five of those in my first due along with three "loops" with the same cross streets on both sides of the loop. We also have a Lexington Ave., Lexington Rd., Lexington St. and Lexington Ct. all in our city. Guess what none of them are close together.

    What good is asking for clarification when you are asking the same person who gave you the initial dispatch information? Once again Garbage In, Garbage Out. When I ask for additional information I get the reply from dispatch "All information came from Police dispatch."

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    Quote Originally Posted by FWDbuff View Post
    I dont know the name of the horse, but I can name the horse's ***!!!
    Keyboard cleaning in progress...thanks.

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by eaglesrule1024 View Post
    ok lets break it down why this is a problem.

    3 and 2 response with a battalion dispatched to for the hell of it 10 broadway.

    Ok because it wasnt clarified which borough before they sent it out you now have a 3 and 2 with a battalion sent out in Manhattan, Queens, Brooklyn and Staten Island.

    You Now have 4 boroughs without protection in areas.

    For your benefit I will help you out with the math too that's 12 engines 8 trucks and 4 battalions are out on a call.

    Bam! call comes in with people trapped in one of the first due responses of a engine or truck where they are housed.

    But guess what you can't respond due to the fact that your on this Bogus call that wasn't verified by the call taker.

    Now the fire in one of the engines or trucks first due is a real fire 6 people die because the UCT phucked up big time and the next available unit was 8-10mins or maybe more from the location.

    What is your answer to this now ? I mean come on are you that stupid that you are going to try and argue this?
    Or BAM!!!! Call comes in one block form where you are. This is a non-issue. Where you are at any given time puts you closer to soem people and farther from others. Try again skippy

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    Quote Originally Posted by SFDSTA1 View Post
    "How much can we cut if we do this?" perspective.
    And given the amount of taxes I pay and inefficient government operations what is wrong with that. Because government won't do these things is the exact reason they will drive up health care cost if they take over health care.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    And given the amount of taxes I pay and inefficient government operations what is wrong with that. Because government won't do these things is the exact reason they will drive up health care cost if they take over health care.
    So it is more efficient to send multiple assignments out to a single call where the address is not quite right? Keep talking in circles.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BryanLoader View Post
    If I understand it correctly Crow, thats one of the big problems, FD dispatch isn't talking to the caller direct but relying on info taken through the Central dispatch. I think if they get to the address and theres nothing there, they waste a lot of time trying to get the proper address from central. I can't really compare it as our 2 biggest cities have a bit more than a million pop each and the rest are under 100,000. Sounds like the biggest problem is incompetent, under trained or dyslexic dispatch
    Exactly. When you get dispatched the information comes in from a dispatch center. Doesn't really matter where that dispatch center is as long as you get good information. If I understand it correctly, used to be the call came into a central dispatch and was then sent to FD Dispatch. The time wasted getting the basic information and then having to repeat that information is where the savings come from. I suspect the Unions real issue is they will loose positions.

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    Just a question ..

    When you say "verify the address" are you referring to asking the caller what the address is a 2nd time or comparing it to the electronic information which should come up on the screen?

    Or are you referring to verifying the address information
    on the screen?

    In other words, is the verbal address or screen address the primary source of location information?

    The reason I ask is that our dispatchers take calls for the entire parish, including the city, with several common street names and route numbers, and rarely seem to have an issue.
    Last edited by LaFireEducator; 09-23-2009 at 08:23 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BLSboy View Post
    Shut up. Really. Just shut the fcuk up.
    Are you a dispatcher?
    Do you know how to dispatch?
    It's not just, "911 what is your emergency?" and pushing buttons.
    The liability that these buffoons that call them selves call takers are incurring on themselves by improperly gathering information is staggering.
    The gov't is only free from being sued if the actions taken are considered reasonable, and others who are in similar postions would take the same action.

    If you confirm address, the problem, THEN send units out, its one thing. But just getting info, probably just off the ANI/ALI screen, not confirming, and dispatching, is boarderline criminal.

    Heres an example for you, to show you, since I know it takes a lot to engage your peabrain.

    Mrs. Smith lives at 123 4th ave, in the Bronx (I know thats not a real address, bear with me).
    She moves to 495 southwest ave, in Manhattan, and her phone company, being lazy, does not update the info that is sent to the 911 call takers ANI/ALI screen.
    The POS call taker goes with the info off the screen, and a full structural assignment is sent to the wrong friggin borough.

    So, tell me again wise guy, good idea, or bad?

    To my FDNY Brothers, good luck. Really.

    And should that fail, I'm sure once the economy recovers in Fla, you could look for a job there.
    Again, this is a training issue. You FD dispatchers could make the same mistakes. Not for nothing, but every time I have called 911 they ask me to verify the address.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lexfd5 View Post
    What's your point? I have five of those in my first due along with three "loops" with the same cross streets on both sides of the loop. We also have a Lexington Ave., Lexington Rd., Lexington St. and Lexington Ct. all in our city. Guess what none of them are close together.

    What good is asking for clarification when you are asking the same person who gave you the initial dispatch information? Once again Garbage In, Garbage Out. When I ask for additional information I get the reply from dispatch "All information came from Police dispatch."
    My point is you train your dispatchers to get the information and get it right

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    Quote Originally Posted by lexfd5 View Post
    So it is more efficient to send multiple assignments out to a single call where the address is not quite right? Keep talking in circles.
    And how often does this happen? How often did it happen before?

    This is a quality improvement initiative. The problem is with most government agencies they really don't do quality right. In order to be done right you need to :
    • Define
    • Measure
    • Analyze
    • Improve
    • Control

    I guarantee that there has been no measurements of the numbers of wrong addresses before and after. And if getting bad info is the issue then fix that problem. I'm all in favor of doing anything to get equipment dispatched quicker. That way we can stop at green lights

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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    Or BAM!!!! Call comes in one block form where you are. This is a non-issue. Where you are at any given time puts you closer to soem people and farther from others. Try again skippy
    First of all, would you even be able to take in that other call? You're already assigned to a call, so responding to the second call may not even be an option.

    Second, if you think sending multiple units out on snip hunts because the correct location and problem wasn't determined up front (while possibly not sending units to that location also) is a good idea, you're a lot dumber than we give you credit for.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    Exactly. When you get dispatched the information comes in from a dispatch center. Doesn't really matter where that dispatch center is as long as you get good information. If I understand it correctly, used to be the call came into a central dispatch and was then sent to FD Dispatch. The time wasted getting the basic information and then having to repeat that information is where the savings come from. I suspect the Unions real issue is they will loose positions.
    Yeah, that's the concern here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    And how often does this happen? How often did it happen before?

    This is a quality improvement initiative. The problem is with most government agencies they really don't do quality right. In order to be done right you need to :
    • Define
    • Measure
    • Analyze
    • Improve
    • Control

    I guarantee that there has been no measurements of the numbers of wrong addresses before and after. And if getting bad info is the issue then fix that problem. I'm all in favor of doing anything to get equipment dispatched quicker. That way we can stop at green lights
    You are wasting your talents as a security guard.

    Please cure cancer for us all.

    You clearly have all the answers.

    .
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    Maybe, if he spent the time to actually understand how the process in NYC works, instead of comparing it to his town, he might start to understand the situation.

    Maybe.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    Scardeycrow,Take Five and find the KEY! ONCE you get you Cranial-rectal inversion UNLOCKED,walk outside and take a DEEP breath.You don't know Jack Schit about NYC or any of it's inner workings.You have NO idea of the emergency call volume NOR would you be qualified to shine the boots of a FAD or DD in the FD Comm system.Trust fred and ray when they tell you the system is screwed.Hell,even I can see this and I only visit once or twice a year. Your Podunk training doesn't qualify you as an expert on this subject,in fact you're so far WRONG on this it might be wise to take a probies stance: Shut up and listen! T.C.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bones42 View Post
    Maybe, if he spent the time to actually understand how the process in NYC works, instead of comparing it to his town, he might start to understand the situation.

    Maybe.
    I see, FDNY does it this way so there is no way to improve the process.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FireMedic049 View Post
    First of all, would you even be able to take in that other call? You're already assigned to a call, so responding to the second call may not even be an option.

    I was only pointing out how silly that arguments is. I have heard that argument used for not training. What if we are training with the equipment and get a call.
    Second, if you think sending multiple units out on snip hunts because the correct location and problem wasn't determined up front (while possibly not sending units to that location also) is a good idea, you're a lot dumber than we give you credit for.
    Again, I asked for details. How often does it really happen?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    I see, FDNY does it this way so there is no way to improve the process.
    Yes, please come to NYC and show those poor people how to fix this.
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

    "The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list."

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  25. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by FWDbuff View Post
    I dont know the name of the horse, but I can name the horse's ***!!!
    I think this post says it all! Sir I bow in awe to your wit!
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