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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by nameless View Post
    a centralized comms center sounds like a good thing, until something happens to that building or the people inside of it. Then you have zero comms centers.


    sounds like your call taking system is pretty screwed up.
    You're right on this, but in truthfulness, its just not something that we consider up here to much of a degree. It may be wrong, shortsighted or whatever, but its what we have and what we have decided to refine so it works as well as it can. So far, we've suceeded or maybe just lucky. If Edmonton or Calgary or Red Deer or Saskatoon happen to be in somebodies sites for a terrorist attack, well you can say you told us so.


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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    I would highly doubt that, The sooner you get the apparatus, rigs, or someone enroute the shorter the wait and the quicker the response. I have been first on scene a couple of times, there is relief from the homeowner or victim as soon as someone shows up. Doesn't mean the fire goes out any faster, but the homeowner knows help is on the way.
    Are you dense? They are sending out boxes without confirming addresses for structural runs (building fires) thus you get what has happended countless times so far...companies showing up and finding nothing and while they are waiting for a 10-7...another box goes out for another address (usually similar numbers or names) and the companies show up there to find a fire...as happened on St. Johns in Brooklyn and has happened many times in queens due to the nature of the addressing system.

    It only takes seconds to confirm the address....but when the caller or the call taker doesn't communicate the address correctly...it results in minutes long delays. (like 112 3rd Ave, vs. 112th Street and 3rd Ave, world of difference.)

    Whereas the fire dispatchers formerly took a few seconds to confirm the address and where the caller was from...now we get tickets to respond to building fires where the caller is 20 blocks away and sees the smoke and calls it in but PD sends a ticket for a fire at their location. So more rigs on the road responding to nonsense.

    And then for the remainder of the runs, they stopped counting the time it takes the PD operator to get the information (and then when we get to the box and the info provided doesn't help us locate the caller...we must wait again to get more info on a call back that then usually directs us to the correct apt. in many cases a different building or block)

    We had one run where no one in the building knew about anyone calling for a fire...turns out it was a 3rd party call from out of state (about 1000 miles from here!) that the PD put through!

    Delays, misdirections, manipulated stats. All result in poor service delievery to your "customers".

    FTM-PTB
    Last edited by FFFRED; 09-22-2009 at 09:47 AM.

  3. #43
    FIREMAN 1st GRADE E40FDNYL35's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    I would highly doubt that, The sooner you get the apparatus, rigs, or someone enroute the shorter the wait and the quicker the response. I have been first on scene a couple of times, there is relief from the homeowner or victim as soon as someone shows up. Doesn't mean the fire goes out any faster, but the homeowner knows help is on the way.
    sooner??? if the address is wrong whats the point? say the address is 10 broadway---??? queens, brooklyn, staten island, manhattan oh wait we seen to all...there are big time problems not easily fixed
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  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    Not every topic, but this is simple. The overall goal is to improve response times. Response times are what the customer (or tax payer, or people we serve) perceive. What we perceive as a good response time is irrelevant.

    You're doing great. Keep going.

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  5. #45
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    Are you dense?

    This is a rhetorical question, right?

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by FFFRED View Post
    Are you dense? They are sending out boxes without confirming addresses for structural runs (building fires) thus you get what has happended countless times so far...companies showing up and finding nothing and while they are waiting for a 10-7...another box goes out for another address (usually similar numbers or names) and the companies show up there to find a fire...as happened on St. Johns in Brooklyn and has happened many times in queens due to the nature of the addressing system.

    It only takes seconds to confirm the address....but when the caller or the call taker doesn't communicate the address correctly...it results in minutes long delays. (like 112 3rd Ave, vs. 112th Street and 3rd Ave, world of difference.)

    Whereas the fire dispatchers formerly took a few seconds to confirm the address and where the caller was from...now we get tickets to respond to building fires where the caller is 20 blocks away and sees the smoke and calls it in but PD sends a ticket for a fire at their location. So more rigs on the road responding to nonsense.

    And then for the remainder of the runs, they stopped counting the time it takes the PD operator to get the information (and then when we get to the box and the info provided doesn't help us locate the caller...we must wait again to get more info on a call back that then usually directs us to the correct apt. in many cases a different building or block)

    We had one run where no one in the building knew about anyone calling for a fire...turns out it was a 3rd party call from out of state (about 1000 miles from here!) that the PD put through!

    Delays, misdirections, manipulated stats. All result in poor service delievery to your "customers".

    FTM-PTB
    Sounds like two issues here. First there seems to be a problem in the dispatch center if they aren't confirming the address. We have been sent out and have had to get clarification. The sooner you are on the road the better. Sounds like your dispatch center isn't following up and getting all of the information. There is nothing wrong with being on the road and getting additional or more information.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by E40FDNYL35 View Post
    sooner??? if the address is wrong whats the point? say the address is 10 broadway---??? queens, brooklyn, staten island, manhattan oh wait we seen to all...there are big time problems not easily fixed
    If you are responding you should be smart enough to ask for a clarification of where you are going. We have two intersection in our town where the two roads intersect in two different places. We also have a situation where someone put in a private road that has the same name as a town road. We also have a bay with campsites on both sides of the bay. Both with the same name.

    But if your dispatch is getting the wrong address then that is a training issue for dispatch.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    If you are responding you should be smart enough to ask for a clarification of where you are going. We have two intersection in our town where the two roads intersect in two different places. We also have a situation where someone put in a private road that has the same name as a town road. We also have a bay with campsites on both sides of the bay. Both with the same name.

    But if your dispatch is getting the wrong address then that is a training issue for dispatch.
    I love that you are comparing Hooterville, NY to NYC.

    Another sterling example of your expert analysis.

    Way to go!

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  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    If you are responding you should be smart enough....
    And this is where you should have followed your own advice and stopped.
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  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    Sounds like two issues here. First there seems to be a problem in the dispatch center if they aren't confirming the address. We have been sent out and have had to get clarification. The sooner you are on the road the better. Sounds like your dispatch center isn't following up and getting all of the information. There is nothing wrong with being on the road and getting additional or more information.
    There is if you are being sent to the wrong place and the correct location isn't in that same direction or isn't even in your response area.

  11. #51
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    ok lets break it down why this is a problem.

    3 and 2 response with a battalion dispatched to for the hell of it 10 broadway.

    Ok because it wasnt clarified which borough before they sent it out you now have a 3 and 2 with a battalion sent out in Manhattan, Queens, Brooklyn and Staten Island.

    You Now have 4 boroughs without protection in areas.

    For your benefit I will help you out with the math too that's 12 engines 8 trucks and 4 battalions are out on a call.

    Bam! call comes in with people trapped in one of the first due responses of a engine or truck where they are housed.

    But guess what you can't respond due to the fact that your on this Bogus call that wasn't verified by the call taker.

    Now the fire in one of the engines or trucks first due is a real fire 6 people die because the UCT phucked up big time and the next available unit was 8-10mins or maybe more from the location.

    What is your answer to this now ? I mean come on are you that stupid that you are going to try and argue this?

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    In reading these posts it really seems like the City/Mayor have taken to just ignoring the true root of the problem for political gain and later budget cuts. Everyone is facing a tough budget battle no matter what city or town you are in but this city has more people in one borough than some states in the US!

    In moving to a combined center you can achieve some improvements IF it is handled correctly from a public safety point of view. But most of these politicians are not looking at it from that perspective they are looking at it from a "How much can we cut if we do this?" perspective. To have a general call taker position handling all PS agencies then those people need to be trained for what they are dealing with, plain and simple. If the city administration is ignoring it because it does not meet their agenda to acknowledge it you are up a creek without a paddle. I have some idea of the city council/borough system in NYC so I cant really comment on how to address it locally but it seems that it needs to be brought out to the politicos and thru that to the residents and news media, if it hasnt been already.

    It seems that by having all your eggs in one baskett will only invite trouble in this particular situation. Spreading out the operation will allow the other call centers/dispatch centers to pick up the slack if one goes OOS for some reason. In a city like NY with all the attention it gets from every place in the world it seems having an understanding of that and realizing that this place is a giant target no matter how you look at it, why would you put yourself in a position endangering your PS and response operations???

    I had been in the fire service as a volunteer FF and later Company Officer for 20 years and working as a 911 Dispatcher/Call Taker in two cities consolidated dispatch centers with my current employ of 13 years. My center is in a city of about 50,000 with about 55,000 CFS. Never compare to the city in the discussion but it does give me a perspective on what is needed to do the job properly including the training required. What we see everyday can be multiplied by like 200x to even get close to the FDNY/NYPD/EMS requirements there but the basics are the same, just more of them in the big places. Failing to realize that or in this case, ignoring that, is just plain dangerous. If I or my coworkers made the same mistakes that have been described here we would at least be looking at some unpaid vacations maybe even termination. It just is not acceptable, and dangerous. Hopefully the FDNY can get it addressed to solve the problem.

  13. #53
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    If you are responding you should be smart enough to ask for a clarification of where you are going. We have two intersection in our town where the two roads intersect in two different places. We also have a situation where someone put in a private road that has the same name as a town road. We also have a bay with campsites on both sides of the bay. Both with the same name.
    And for 10 extra points.....

    What is the name of the horse in this town.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    If you are responding you should be smart enough to ask for a clarification of where you are going. We have two intersection in our town where the two roads intersect in two different places. We also have a situation where someone put in a private road that has the same name as a town road. We also have a bay with campsites on both sides of the bay. Both with the same name.

    But if your dispatch is getting the wrong address then that is a training issue for dispatch.
    If I understand it correctly Crow, thats one of the big problems, FD dispatch isn't talking to the caller direct but relying on info taken through the Central dispatch. I think if they get to the address and theres nothing there, they waste a lot of time trying to get the proper address from central. I can't really compare it as our 2 biggest cities have a bit more than a million pop each and the rest are under 100,000. Sounds like the biggest problem is incompetent, under trained or dyslexic dispatch

  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    Sounds like two issues here. First there seems to be a problem in the dispatch center if they aren't confirming the address. We have been sent out and have had to get clarification. The sooner you are on the road the better. Sounds like your dispatch center isn't following up and getting all of the information. There is nothing wrong with being on the road and getting additional or more information.
    Shut up. Really. Just shut the fcuk up.
    Are you a dispatcher?
    Do you know how to dispatch?
    It's not just, "911 what is your emergency?" and pushing buttons.
    The liability that these buffoons that call them selves call takers are incurring on themselves by improperly gathering information is staggering.
    The gov't is only free from being sued if the actions taken are considered reasonable, and others who are in similar postions would take the same action.

    If you confirm address, the problem, THEN send units out, its one thing. But just getting info, probably just off the ANI/ALI screen, not confirming, and dispatching, is boarderline criminal.

    Heres an example for you, to show you, since I know it takes a lot to engage your peabrain.

    Mrs. Smith lives at 123 4th ave, in the Bronx (I know thats not a real address, bear with me).
    She moves to 495 southwest ave, in Manhattan, and her phone company, being lazy, does not update the info that is sent to the 911 call takers ANI/ALI screen.
    The POS call taker goes with the info off the screen, and a full structural assignment is sent to the wrong friggin borough.

    So, tell me again wise guy, good idea, or bad?

    To my FDNY Brothers, good luck. Really.

    And should that fail, I'm sure once the economy recovers in Fla, you could look for a job there.
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  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlyingKiwi View Post
    And for 10 extra points.....

    What is the name of the horse in this town.
    I dont know the name of the horse, but I can name the horse's ***!!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    If you are responding you should be smart enough to ask for a clarification of where you are going. We have two intersection in our town where the two roads intersect in two different places. We also have a situation where someone put in a private road that has the same name as a town road. We also have a bay with campsites on both sides of the bay. Both with the same name.

    But if your dispatch is getting the wrong address then that is a training issue for dispatch.
    What's your point? I have five of those in my first due along with three "loops" with the same cross streets on both sides of the loop. We also have a Lexington Ave., Lexington Rd., Lexington St. and Lexington Ct. all in our city. Guess what none of them are close together.

    What good is asking for clarification when you are asking the same person who gave you the initial dispatch information? Once again Garbage In, Garbage Out. When I ask for additional information I get the reply from dispatch "All information came from Police dispatch."

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    Quote Originally Posted by FWDbuff View Post
    I dont know the name of the horse, but I can name the horse's ***!!!
    Keyboard cleaning in progress...thanks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by eaglesrule1024 View Post
    ok lets break it down why this is a problem.

    3 and 2 response with a battalion dispatched to for the hell of it 10 broadway.

    Ok because it wasnt clarified which borough before they sent it out you now have a 3 and 2 with a battalion sent out in Manhattan, Queens, Brooklyn and Staten Island.

    You Now have 4 boroughs without protection in areas.

    For your benefit I will help you out with the math too that's 12 engines 8 trucks and 4 battalions are out on a call.

    Bam! call comes in with people trapped in one of the first due responses of a engine or truck where they are housed.

    But guess what you can't respond due to the fact that your on this Bogus call that wasn't verified by the call taker.

    Now the fire in one of the engines or trucks first due is a real fire 6 people die because the UCT phucked up big time and the next available unit was 8-10mins or maybe more from the location.

    What is your answer to this now ? I mean come on are you that stupid that you are going to try and argue this?
    Or BAM!!!! Call comes in one block form where you are. This is a non-issue. Where you are at any given time puts you closer to soem people and farther from others. Try again skippy

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    Quote Originally Posted by SFDSTA1 View Post
    "How much can we cut if we do this?" perspective.
    And given the amount of taxes I pay and inefficient government operations what is wrong with that. Because government won't do these things is the exact reason they will drive up health care cost if they take over health care.

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