Union Disputes FDNY Response Times

[lexfd5]

And given the amount of taxes I pay and inefficient government operations what is wrong with that. Because government won't do these things is the exact reason they will drive up health care cost if they take over health care.

So it is more efficient to send multiple assignments out to a single call where the address is not quite right? Keep talking in circles.

[ScareCrow57]

If I understand it correctly Crow, thats one of the big problems, FD dispatch isn't talking to the caller direct but relying on info taken through the Central dispatch. I think if they get to the address and theres nothing there, they waste a lot of time trying to get the proper address from central. I can't really compare it as our 2 biggest cities have a bit more than a million pop each and the rest are under 100,000. Sounds like the biggest problem is incompetent, under trained or dyslexic dispatch

Exactly. When you get dispatched the information comes in from a dispatch center. Doesn't really matter where that dispatch center is as long as you get good information. If I understand it correctly, used to be the call came into a central dispatch and was then sent to FD Dispatch. The time wasted getting the basic information and then having to repeat that information is where the savings come from. I suspect the Unions real issue is they will loose positions.

[LaFireEducator]

Just a question ..

When you say "verify the address" are you referring to asking the caller what the address is a 2nd time or comparing it to the electronic information which should come up on the screen?

Or are you referring to verifying the address information
on the screen?

In other words, is the verbal address or screen address the primary source of location information?

The reason I ask is that our dispatchers take calls for the entire parish, including the city, with several common street names and route numbers, and rarely seem to have an issue.

[ScareCrow57]

Shut up. Really. Just shut the fcuk up.
Are you a dispatcher?
Do you know how to dispatch?
It's not just, "911 what is your emergency?" and pushing buttons.
The liability that these buffoons that call them selves call takers are incurring on themselves by improperly gathering information is staggering.
The gov't is only free from being sued if the actions taken are considered reasonable, and others who are in similar postions would take the same action.

If you confirm address, the problem, THEN send units out, its one thing. But just getting info, probably just off the ANI/ALI screen, not confirming, and dispatching, is boarderline criminal.

Heres an example for you, to show you, since I know it takes a lot to engage your peabrain.

Mrs. Smith lives at 123 4th ave, in the Bronx (I know thats not a real address, bear with me).
She moves to 495 southwest ave, in Manhattan, and her phone company, being lazy, does not update the info that is sent to the 911 call takers ANI/ALI screen.
The POS call taker goes with the info off the screen, and a full structural assignment is sent to the wrong friggin borough.

So, tell me again wise guy, good idea, or bad?

To my FDNY Brothers, good luck. Really.

And should that fail, I'm sure once the economy recovers in Fla, you could look for a job there.

Again, this is a training issue. You FD dispatchers could make the same mistakes. Not for nothing, but every time I have called 911 they ask me to verify the address.

[ScareCrow57]

What's your point? I have five of those in my first due along with three "loops" with the same cross streets on both sides of the loop. We also have a Lexington Ave., Lexington Rd., Lexington St. and Lexington Ct. all in our city. Guess what none of them are close together.

What good is asking for clarification when you are asking the same person who gave you the initial dispatch information? Once again Garbage In, Garbage Out. When I ask for additional information I get the reply from dispatch "All information came from Police dispatch."

My point is you train your dispatchers to get the information and get it right

[ScareCrow57]

So it is more efficient to send multiple assignments out to a single call where the address is not quite right? Keep talking in circles.

And how often does this happen? How often did it happen before?

This is a quality improvement initiative. The problem is with most government agencies they really don't do quality right. In order to be done right you need to :

• Define
• Measure
• Analyze
• Improve
• Control

I guarantee that there has been no measurements of the numbers of wrong addresses before and after. And if getting bad info is the issue then fix that problem. I'm all in favor of doing anything to get equipment dispatched quicker. That way we can stop at green lights

[FireMedic049]

Or BAM!!!! Call comes in one block form where you are. This is a non-issue. Where you are at any given time puts you closer to soem people and farther from others. Try again skippy

First of all, would you even be able to take in that other call? You're already assigned to a call, so responding to the second call may not even be an option.

Second, if you think sending multiple units out on snip hunts because the correct location and problem wasn't determined up front (while possibly not sending units to that location also) is a good idea, you're a lot dumber than we give you credit for.

[FireMedic049]

Exactly. When you get dispatched the information comes in from a dispatch center. Doesn't really matter where that dispatch center is as long as you get good information. If I understand it correctly, used to be the call came into a central dispatch and was then sent to FD Dispatch. The time wasted getting the basic information and then having to repeat that information is where the savings come from. I suspect the Unions real issue is they will loose positions.

Yeah, that's the concern here.

[ChiefKN]

And how often does this happen? How often did it happen before?

This is a quality improvement initiative. The problem is with most government agencies they really don't do quality right. In order to be done right you need to :

• Define
• Measure
• Analyze
• Improve
• Control

I guarantee that there has been no measurements of the numbers of wrong addresses before and after. And if getting bad info is the issue then fix that problem. I'm all in favor of doing anything to get equipment dispatched quicker. That way we can stop at green lights

You are wasting your talents as a security guard.

Please cure cancer for us all.

You clearly have all the answers.

.

[Bones42]

Maybe, if he spent the time to actually understand how the process in NYC works, instead of comparing it to his town, he might start to understand the situation.

Maybe.

[Rescue101]

Scardeycrow,Take Five and find the KEY! ONCE you get you Cranial-rectal inversion UNLOCKED,walk outside and take a DEEP breath.You don't know Jack Schit about NYC or any of it's inner workings.You have NO idea of the emergency call volume NOR would you be qualified to shine the boots of a FAD or DD in the FD Comm system.Trust fred and ray when they tell you the system is screwed.Hell,even I can see this and I only visit once or twice a year. Your Podunk training doesn't qualify you as an expert on this subject,in fact you're so far WRONG on this it might be wise to take a probies stance: Shut up and listen! T.C.

[ScareCrow57]

Maybe, if he spent the time to actually understand how the process in NYC works, instead of comparing it to his town, he might start to understand the situation.

Maybe.

I see, FDNY does it this way so there is no way to improve the process.

[ScareCrow57]

First of all, would you even be able to take in that other call? You're already assigned to a call, so responding to the second call may not even be an option.

I was only pointing out how silly that arguments is. I have heard that argument used for not training. What if we are training with the equipment and get a call.

Second, if you think sending multiple units out on snip hunts because the correct location and problem wasn't determined up front (while possibly not sending units to that location also) is a good idea, you're a lot dumber than we give you credit for.

Again, I asked for details. How often does it really happen?

[ChiefKN]

I see, FDNY does it this way so there is no way to improve the process.

Yes, please come to NYC and show those poor people how to fix this.

[Mzanghetti]

I dont know the name of the horse, but I can name the horse's ***!!!

I think this post says it all! Sir I bow in awe to your wit!

[Bones42]

I see, FDNY does it this way so there is no way to improve the process.

Not saying that at all. I am saying you first need to know and understand the process.

[Mzanghetti]

Or BAM!!!! Call comes in one block form where you are. This is a non-issue. Where you are at any given time puts you closer to soem people and farther from others. Try again skippy

NO IT IS NOT A NON-ISSUE! If you are far away from a legitimate call because you were sent somewhere in error, IT IS A PROBLEM!

You truly don't get the point do you, there is a problem with the way the dispatch system is working and the muckity mucks are bragging about a parlor trick they pulled to falsely improve response numbers.

I learn alot from reading this and other boards about firefighting and one of the things I have learned is that most people and or politicians truly don't understand how their decisions effect how we do our jobs; you sir are one of the reasons why you just don't want to see anything but your own narrow viewpoint. I honestly wonder about how much you care about and for your fellow firefighters.

[Rescue101]

Ah NO. You need to understand RUDEMENTARY Firefighting for that process to begin.Don't see that happening with our resident Dodo(expert). If the guys working in the system are saying it isn't working,I think I'll believe them instead of our quality control expert.I've got some issues in OUR dispatch but they're Waaay easier to fix than this. Short companies,brownouts,gear shortages/issues........What's next? Time for the uprising,I think. T.C.

[BryanLoader]

Ah NO. You need to understand RUDEMENTARY Firefighting for that process to begin.Don't see that happening with our resident Dodo(expert). If the guys working in the system are saying it isn't working,I think I'll believe them instead of our quality control expert.I've got some issues in OUR dispatch but they're Waaay easier to fix than this. Short companies,brownouts,gear shortages/issues........What's next? Time for the uprising,I think. T.C.

I can't really understand the hostility here. The problem seems to be the dispatch system in NYC. Seems to me that the problems need to be addressed between FDNY and City of New York management. I have no idea why people want to rant at me or others in regard to this. Our system worked, is working, and I'm sure will work in the future. We don't have big issues between FD, LE, Medics and the city. I'm sorry if you do.

[ScareCrow57]

Not saying that at all. I am saying you first need to know and understand the process.

It was explained here

There are a multitude of issues within this topic...but I will briefly explain the method which they used to doctor and fraudulently claim these specific efficiency gains.

Formerly this is how a fire company would arrive at your front door:

-You either call 911, the boro Central office, or pull a street alarm box(ERS only as BARS boxes aren't relevant to this issue).

-If you called 911 as most do, and tell the Police Dispatcher you need to report a fire, you were immediately transferred (if the PD followed protocol) to the Boro Fire call taker and this is when the CLOCK STARTED as far as response time.

The time it took for them to gather your information, type of incident, address, cross streets...etc. was all on the clock.

They would process the alarm, to the decision dispatcher and BANG...a ticket would begin printing in firehouses, where we then would turnout and respond and when the first arriving company (Engine, Ladder, Battalion) arrives and hits or transmits at 10-84...the CLOCK STOPPED!

This is how it now works under the new UCT program crammed down our throats against the advice of anyone with any knowledge of FD vs. PD operations and dispatching structures.:

You call 911 and a PD dispatcher with little to no relevant FD training (and most are barely literate in the English language as the garbage they type in the comments section as to specifics on the Box is disturbing and would be incredibly humorous if peoples lives weren't hanging in the balance) takes the information, many times due to their lack of training and knowledge on what FDNY needs vs. what cops need, leads to long wait times...meanwhile I'm still in quarters and know nothing of what is going on.

So after usual lengthy delays they send what info they have to the Decision dispatcher for the FD...many times it is incorrect or incomplete...or illegible.

So a ticket is sent to firehouses based on this info....NOW THE CLOCK STARTS and we turnout with tickets that have no information, or wrong information.)

So any first year stats student could tell you any comparison to past years times that were gathered under completely different methods and metrics is completely irrelevant and without merit.

Now are the FDNY filled with incompetent managers who need to go back and re-take their 1st year public administration classes and pass them with better than C average...or are they willfully distorting the facts and lying to the public?

FTM-PTB

PS- This doesn't even address the multitudes of boxes sent out that have almost got men killed and led to unreasonable delays in responses, or how the Department picks arbitrarily which days of the year they will use to average response times or which runs they throw out when it suits them.

The only two things on the level in this world are Professional Wrestling and this job...everything else is Bull ----

If you eliminate the transfer then you improve response times.

Sounds like there is a problem with the 911 system. I would think there would be a dispatch center in each of the 5 boroughs. So when you dial 911 you go directly to the appropriate dispatch center.